Here’s a situation that presented itself today as well as other times in the past.
We’re wrapping up this big, kinda fancy, duplex frame. Fancy for a duplex any way. We’ve worked it so that what we have left for work to do there is all outside stuff because I knew the mechanical trades would be hot on our heals and figured it’d be easier to stay out of each other’s way.
So we’re doing exterior trim, two porches, and a big 34′ x 12′ deck in mahoghany with more trim. That means we’ve got the 10″ slider and stand set up, the Rigid tablesaw, cart, and outfeed flip thing, and another Dewalt 10″ mitersaw. All set up outside as the plumbers have taken over the joint and you can’t walk 3 feet without tripping over a pile of pvc fittings. In addition to the larger power tools, we also have various ‘nice’ hand tools like handsaws, block planes, finish nailers, router, jigsaw, etc out in the weather.
It starts to rain pretty good. Not hard enough that we’d go home ordinarily. But a decent steady rain. As a general rule, the slider and tablesaw do not see any weather. Same goes for handsaws and planes and other tools like that. Circ saws, sawzalls, framing guns….. no problem. But not the ‘nice’ stuff.
Now it’s also a lot harder to focus on detail work in bad weather than it is to just frame per say. But that’s not why we wrapped up today at 2:30. We wrapped up today because it kills me to see those particular tools out in the rain.
Is this totally foolish? Am I cutting off my nose to spite my face? Or should I have continued to run the tools and make money as the money being made outweighs the damage being done to the expensive tools. Or does it? If you figure about $500 for the slider, $200 for the stand its on, $500 for the tablesaw, and another $200 for the other miter saw, we’re talking about $1400 right off the bat. Not really a god-awful amount of money, but a fairly sizable chunk none-the-less. So how much damage is really being done and how much is it really costing me I wonder. Realisticly, I’m not going to go home and spend my evening in a cold dark trailer drying and lubricating the tools of the day, so…..
I thought about this the whole way home and really can’t figure out which is the devil I’d rather know. Trash the tools and make money? Or keep the tools nice and not make money?
I’m thinking I was penny-wise and pound foolish and wrapping up early. What say you folks?
Edited 2/23/2006 4:27 pm ET by dieselpig
Replies
Any possibility of getting one of those portable tents like they use on Trading Spaces and the like, and having it set up on the days that the weather might turn crappy? My neighbor has one that's about 10'x12', folds up into a package the size of a golf bag, and takes about 10 minutes to set up or take down (max). He got it at BJ's or Costco for around $200.
I'd think having one or two of them in the trailer would easily prevent what you're talking about. Of course, in the torrential downpours you'd still have to pack it in since you can't work on the house anyway. Plus, they'd be a nice bit of shade for those hot, treeless backyards as well.
Bob
Bob, I've thought of that a few times in the past. Even looked a couple of times at the ones they have at Northern Tool. Problem is that as often as we're set up on the ground, we're often set up on an explosed plywood deck with nothing above as well.
And I'm not sure of the logistics of it all. If it really only takes 10 min or so to set up, then that's not bad at all. But what if it's more like 30 minutes? Now you've added an hour to your day........ times 4 men=$$. And then if you put it away soaking wet, you should probably think about setting it up again on the next nice day to let it dry out so you get a few more turns out of it. In the end it just seemed like more hassle than it was worth.
But then again..... I'm not making any money from here at my desk, am I? Maybe I should revisit the idea. It's not like these days happen all the time..... but when they do, it'd be nice to have a decent dry cutting station.View Image
My mom is a fine artist and has a pop tent to shelter her wares that CANNOT get wet (wet watercolors look well, bad) and with her arthritis can get it set up in about 15 minutes... The big trick she has is that she hangs 2 one gallon water jugs off of each corner, and it holds steady in up to about 20-25mph winds.
I used one on a deck job and it was great, and worked under one chopping up tile with the world's loudest and messiest tile saw in a clients driveway. Mess and noise stayed outside, and the only water that got on me was from the saw, not from the thunder storm.
The saw was hooked up to a GCFI pigtail too...
I typically pack it in.
On the rare occasions I've tried to weather the storm, it just seems to have been more trouble than its worth. Tools are getting trashed....productivity is way down....quality of work suffers.
In the long run, just better to lose the day. (In the field anywho.....always plenty of paperwork waiting for those rainy days.)
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
If u cant keep productivity and quality and saftey up to ur sunny day levels than its time for other things..maintainence ; paperwork/ material runs .But im thinkin about one of those 10x20 canopys for some aspect of the jobs for rain and sun protection and tool and material protection.I work in rural areas so usually have plenty of space and often its a long drive to job to have to turn around because of flaky weather.And why does it always rain in the first 2 hours of the day?
If nothing else, the safety factor merits quitting for the day, if you can't rig some sort of shelter. Yeah, you probably have a GFCI and everything, but that's supposed to be insurance, not your first line of defense.
happy?
Another good point Dan. You know, to be entirely honest..... I never think about the dangers of electricity on the jobsite. The thought certainly crosses my mind during an electrical storm or when using the forklift near wires..... but never regarding our power sources. I guess the GFCIs and double insulated tools have sedated me to a bit of a dangerous state of complacency?View Image
Yeah, keep in mind that I'm an EE, and know how the stuff is double-insulated and how GFCIs work, and I still don't trust 'em in the rain. I mean, a light rain doesn't scare me, if I can keep plastic over the tool so it doesn't get soaked, but if rain starts getting into things pretty good then I'm getting out!
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
I agree with Bob about the small 10x10 shelter/tent thing, but also think you did the right thing. I'm not in the trades like you are, but my tools get used outside once in a while. I'd rather bag it for a day and keep them dry than to work thru the rain (which is miserable and slows you down anyway) and have to spend hours with dry rags, heat guns, blow dryers, oil, WD-40, wax, shopvac, etc. Also gotta hope that the rain didn't get into the electrics, corrode something important, and your tools fail anyway and sooner than later.
I hauled a full-size Delta bandsaw through the rain a few weeks ago, and it took me several hours to get all the water out of it, wax down the table and clean it up, and it still rusted in spots. I could have waited three hours and saved myself a LOT of labor.
You wrap up early, there's other things you can do - organize your tools, do paperwork, goof off a little, whatever. Knocking off two hours early is no big deal - what stinks is knocking off at 9am because the weather's rotten.
If you schedule isn't jammed full where every hour counts then you made the right choice. When it starts to rain I do the same thing start to find the 'nice' stuff and pack it away. I ask myself the same question, should I even care I bought them to use them right?
But when you look at it thats alot of money laying out in the rain we all work hard for our money and it means something to us when we can afford nice tools to make our lives just a little easier everyday. I don't like giving my money away to anyone including mother nature.
You sound like me don't know how to come in out of the rain, at least we know how to keep our bills paid and thats what counts. Glad to see someone else out there values the money he makes everyday and realizes that it doesn't come easy so when we spend it on an investment like tools we want it to last as long as possible.
So keep working and packing the investments away when it rains I know I will.
I agree with what everyone else is saying. I have a 10x10 canopy just for that reason. If i'm working outside there's no way my 12" slider is gonna get wet. The canopy cost $200 and came with four sides. I used it a couple of weeks ago to store three pallets of cellulose insulation that got delivered a day early. It worked great.
BTW I can set up my canopy with help in about 10 min. About twice that by myself.
Edited 2/23/2006 5:06 pm ET by MSA1
No sense getting everyone sick. And you increase your tool maint. cost by regularly packing wet sawdust into them. I don't consider a tent for a day worth the set-up time, but for a week's work...
i've used up most of my better indoor work for now too. I've got a nice set of bookcases to do for a guy, but my tools and equipment are already spread out over three jobs. Gotta get something finished!
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Pig,
You're being too hard on yourself. You were right to bag it for the day. Just work late on a couple of the nicer days and forget about it. 40 years from now it will not have made a difference.
40 years from now it will not have made a difference.
Seriously, that's the best piece of advice I've read here in awhile. My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard
Yeah that is good advice, huh? Perpective often evades me. Too often in fact. View Image
A half hour to set up one of those tents?! Ten minutes even?! I have two of them, one is a 10 x 10 All In One...one person about 5 minutes to set up. The 12 x 14 takes two people about 7 minutes. It's your answer believe me...especially if you have to get the work done that day. Now we're not talking heavy rain, just a steady drizzle and sprinkle. I just did a big Hardiplank siding job, and the tents saved the day. And no, you're not nuts to not have your saws and other expensive tools get wet like that, and if they do, then dry them off and lightly oil them.
They're also good on the dog days of summer to keep out of the searing sun, and you can always use them for family outings and parties around the house as well. They fold down to nothing and come with their own carrying case.
Get the All In One style tent that just unfolds like an accordian. I got the one from Northern, and the other locally.
Zippidy do dah and away you go.
Yep.
I ordered a pizza tonight, and it came with bacon. I don't eat pork, so naturally I was pis$ed. I ended up scraping all the cheese/toppings off, and eating the sauce and dough(suprisingly not bad).
Then I read that piece of advice, and life was suddenly put in perspective.My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard
You and your food. Is that all you can think about? LOL
Ugha Chaka! Ugha Chaka! Ugha, Ugha, Ugha, Chaka!
LOL. Eventually, I'll eat some vegatables. Those donuts lasted me for two dinners.
Some how I manage to keep the body fat under 10%(for now). My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard
I have a break out planned for morning. Donuts is high on my list of things to get at the first store.
Ugha Chaka! Ugha Chaka! Ugha, Ugha, Ugha, Chaka!
View ImageMy milkshake brings all the boys to the yard
Brian---Pack it in----you and your tools and your motivation will live to build another day--Be dry, rustfree and happy and you'll catch up like it never happened.Mike"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" Mitremike c. 1990" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
I've spent most of my time in places that have afternoon thunderstorms that hit and run so we get wet, but not for long periords of time. Those drizzly rains are new to me, but am getting used to them.
A 3x3 or 4x4 square of heavy tarp rested on top of the slider does a surprisingly good job of keeping water off the important parts and it allows the saw to dry quickly. The stand is the aluminum Dewalt so it's built like a frog's buttt.
The table saw is usually covered with a partial sheet of ply until needed then it simply gets wet. Regular wax on the table and slide help shed water, but it still gets wet. The little Makita in Rousoue (sp?) table sheds water away from the motor and imporant parts quite well when right side up and have had little trouble with it being in the rain for days on end.
Putting hand tools under one of the 30"x60" folding plastic tables makes a great shelter and the stuff is somewhat easy to get to.
The guys in coastal Alaska either have to work in the rain or they don't work. The standard wet weather gear is Grundens heavy duty rain gear and ExtraTuff boots. Their tools still look terrible, but the cost of a slider wearing out 12 months early is cheap compared to missed productivity.
If I were paying employees the productivity drop would probably be a bigger issue. Since I'm mostly a T&M guy the weather is mostly an inconvience and doesn't impact the bottom line unless I stay home.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't spend extra money on Goretex.
I bag it...a plastic grocery bag over the slider's motor, poke a couple holes to let air into the motor.
Then blow and wipe the unit dry at day's end, esp. the slide tubes - even though the LS1013 tubes aren't prone to rust.
d. roll em up....live to build another day.
Speaking as a employee and not a boss. I work about 250 days a year so I don't mind having a little time off once in a while due to weather. From reading your past posts I know you care about your employees, so how do they feel about it?
P.S. I thought you didn't use block planes?
Dallas
My guys are hour whores. My best guy, and longest time employee is starting to taper off a bit this past year though. His wife is going to have a c-section on Tuesday... their second child.... his priorities are starting to shift a bit. That's a good thing. These guys will work 80 hours a week if I let them. Sometimes I think they're trying to kill me. Any way, to answer your question, they'll work in pretty much anything.
Why do you think we don't use block planes? Did I say that one time? We don't use them all the time, for sure, but occasionally. Mainly for knocking down the edges of butt joints in the decking.View Image
That was a reference from your Christmas bonus question and someone suggested a nice block plane and money. I listen when you speak.
Love your posts. I am a two finger klutz typist and why I give short responses.
I listen when you speak. Scary stuff. I was hoping that nobody was really paying attention. Listening to me could get you in trouble!
Now that you mention it, I do recall that thread and you're right. I think I was just being sarcastic since, being framers, we don't have the occasion for block planes very much at all. Good ears on ya though.View Image
Hi guys,
I'm retired and not a tradesman but agree with your concern about the tools. They are hard earned and it takes more time to clean'em up sometimes than the time lost on some jobs. Just a question: many of you guys have some nice looking rigs, trailers and trucks with equipment racks....couldn't you also mount those RV style rollout type awnings on your rigs? Especially for the ones that stay put for the day once you get to the site. Maybe modify a set of uprights to extend a couple feet and give you more headroom, yet it rolls up in a jif and you can still use the water filled jug set up for windy days. Considering your tool/material investment plus your time it would be a small expense overall spread over a season, and a little comfort on those days that are scorchers. Supplement this with a stand alone set up and you have flexibility and choice depending upon circumstances.
Some like to gamble, I like to tinker and buy tools and do some serious DIY work for myself and friends/family.
Jim