It is getting to be that time of year again when you’d better hope the wood pile is in good shape.
Ran across this article:
Top 10 Fuel Trees for Zone 5 and Above
http://permaculturetokyo.blogspot.com/2006/05/top-10-fuel-trees-for-zone-5-and-above.html
No real surprises on his top 10. I’ve attached another article from a few years back.
jt8
Replies
The linked article pasted below:
Top 10 Fuel Trees for Zone 5 and Above
Various Fuel Trees for Climate Zone 5
by Scott A. Meister
With today’s bleak future for fuel, we must start planning wisely. In today’s society, most people now living in urban areas are dependent upon the municipal, industrial and commercial structure to provide for their energy needs. This dependence has removed much of our freedom, for we are at the mercy of those who own or control the fossil fuels that we depend on.
At this point, we have a choice. We can go to war to secure the last few drops of fossil fuel energy, and destroy the world, freedom and life on the planet in the process, or we can start living wisely and self-sufficiently, so we are no longer subject to the whims of government or those who “own†fossil fuel sources. Furthermore, if we sever ourselves from this dependence, we will no longer be feeding the greed of the upper, say, two percent of society that is in “possession†of those natural recourses. It is both wise and intelligent to start reducing the amount of energy we need to live on, while at the same time taking steps to provide that energy for ourselves while using that energy in the most efficient way possible.
The first steps toward this kind of self-sufficient independence and freedom begin at home. First, we must begin with the intelligent design of a low-input house that takes advantage of passive-solar heating and cooling, and combine it with a surrounding landscape that will provide for our nutrition and any energy-input needs.
Those who are unfortunate enough to live in the energy intensive cold-temperate climate are at a specific disadvantage. Before the arrival of Europeans in the midwestern area, people roamed through it seasonally as nomads, wisely realizing that settling in the area would require all of the trees to simply survive the winter.
Some have suggested this is why the midwest is so sparse with trees in the first place, thus, the land is not as rich as other areas. Just as some have laid blame on the Anasazi for the deserts around Mesa Verde. Making clearings for the sake of agriculture to support permanent settlements removed the shelter, shade and water regulation needed for the continued survival of vegetation in the area.
The hot summers further aggravate the situation in the areas furthest from the coasts. This forces us to design for both extremes. It would be much easier to design for a place that is always cold, or always hot, but in the heartland of the U.S. we have been forsaken to have to deal with both.
The main problem, is that we most likely will not be able to keep warm through the winter by simply making use of insulation, orienting the house toward the sun for passive solar heating, and attaching greenhouses (tactics of which non are currently being used. Due to the pioneer paranoia of indians attacking, all settlements have been designed with a wagon wheel back-to-back square or circular design, ignoring sun aspect. If you add the former “abundance†of cheap energy, and aesthetic design customs which are dictated by the drive toward and show of status you end up the modern midwestern suburb).
As of now, many of the houses were not designed to survive a world running short of energy. They are, in -fact, aimed entirely toward the opposite goal, consumption of massive amounts of embodied and fossil fuel energy.
Vaulted ceilings (being pushed by architecture firms today) require massive heating and air-conditioning. Massive decorative grass lawns require insane amounts of time, labor, oil and gas inputs for mowing, fertilization and pest control (not to mention waste disposal). These are the status symbols of suburban life. They are the coveted norm. This is all going to change, whether we like it to or not. As the price of energy rises, as it has no choice but to do, these lifestyles will slowly become obsolete.
Since the winter weather is so harsh, and the summers are so blistering, we must turn toward a more harmonious inclusion of nature in our immediate surroundings and our settlements if we wish to survive without the benefit of cheap fossil energy.
In the future, living trees and shrubs will be the main source for what little fuel inputs we will depend on for our new eco-friendly homes. Trees will be the main source of shade to keep us cool in the sweltering summers. Trees will be the main source of soil building as well as water and soil conservation partners.
We will slowly start to see the disappearance of the aesthetic fireplace, that heats a small area while actually cooling the rest of the house. Franklin-stoves (which do little better than a fireplace) will fall by the wayside. Instead, we will see a wise homeowner installing masonry stoves that build and trap heat from small fires for the slow radiation of it over time thus making better use of whatever fuel we put into it.
To be most thoroughly efficient however, we must use efficient fuel, wisely. We wouldn’t want to burn something that will not last long enough to build up the heat we need, thus requiring large amounts of wood to feed the masonry stove. This would further add CO2 emissions to the atmosphere, while not really contributing to our heating needs. We also don’t want to harvest trees in an unsustainable way by planting lots of pine trees that grow fast, and then simply cut them down and replanting. This would be too energy and time intensive. This growing to kill system just doesn’t make sense when it comes to time use and yield.
It is with this in mind, that I’ve decided to do some research into the best kinds of wood for providing heat. I went in search of the tree that would give off the highest amount of BTU’s per cord. It is this search that lead me to the information below that was provided by a study done by the University of Nebraska-Lincoln Extension, Institute of Agriculture and Natural Resources. I also consulted a study published by the University of Missouri-Columbia along with various other online resources.
I chose the Top 10 BTU producing trees from these studies in hopes that we would all consider planting bio-diverse hedgerows, food-forests, shade trees, swale tree-lines with nitrogen-fixers that can also act as coppiceable sources of fuel. By including a variety of these trees, in combination with a passive solar home properly shaded in summer, using a masonry stove to maximize the efficiency of our fuel trees in winter, we can wean ourselves from dependence on the system, and on the fossil fuel cartels at work both at home and abroad. By providing our own food and energy security, we thereby will increase our own independence and freedom, thereby truly living the “American†dream.
Without further ado...the Top 10 trees are (drum-roll here)..........
RANK NAME Heat/Cord
(Million BTUs)
1. Osage Orange (Maclura pomifera) 32.9
2. Oak, White (Quercas alba) 29.1
3. Locust, Black (Robinia pseudoacacia) 27.9
4. Ironwood (Ostrya virginiana) 27.9
5. Hickory, Shagbark (Carya ovata) 27.5
6. Apple (Malus domestica) 27.0
7. Honeylocust (Gleditsia triacanthos) 26.7
8. Hickory, Bitternut (Carya cordiformis) 26.7
9. Oak, Bur (Quercus macrocarpa) 26.2
10. Mulberry (Trees from the Moraceae Morus family) 25.8
Three Cheers for Osage Orange!
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I’d like to spend some time talking about some of the better fuel woods up on this list, specifically , Osage Orange (Maclura pomifera). Look at that number again...32.9 million BTU’S per cord. That’s the next best thing to coal! Another paper from the University of Missouri-Columbia stated that Osage Orange would produce 30.7 million Btu/cord. This would equal (and here’s the interesting part) 219.3 gallons of Fuel Oil.
Considering that 1 barrel of oil produces 9 gallons of fuel oil, and one barrel of oil is priced currently at $67 US. Then one cord of Osage Orange is worth $1,634.80. Since it generally takes 4 to 10 hours of work to harvest, haul and prepare a firewood cord, in terms of labor, this would translate into between $163.48 /hr and $408.70/hr (depending on your planning and efficiency). NICE WORK IF YOU CAN GET IT! And...if the trees are coppiced in rotations, this would be sustainable! In other financial terms, one cord of Osage Orange is about 4,728 lbs. (dry weight). This would mean you could get about $3.00/lb. Considering the ever rising price of oil...ick! This tree is going to just become more valuable, especially since it’s not very popular right now, and people seem to just want to stick it in the ground dead as fence-post...more on this later.
Since I was a child, I would use the large and gnarly fruit as a makeshift bowling ball...split many a tree into firewood (to build character and muscles, so I’ve been told) and watched many a log light up our franklin stove in the bone-numbing Nebraska winters (F.Y.I. coldest temp that I remember experiencing was about -45 degrees fahrenheit but the yearly average low is -20 to -25 degrees F, or -28.9 to -31.6 degrees C)
Osage Orange (also commonly known as Hedge apple or just Hedge) got it’s name from the the tribe that live in an area around Arkansas, the Red River Valleys of southern Oklahoma and northern Texas. The Osage Indians valued the tree’s wood for it’s strength and elasticity and therefore used it to make bows, clubs and other tools (it’s still being used for this purpose today (well, bows at least, I don’t know how many people are making war clubs today). My father was recently bragging on it’s behalf in terms of its woodworking value. It has a beautiful fine grain and a yellowish-orange tint. It’s gorgeous and as it dries, it becomes extremely hard. Greener Osage Orange is easier to work with. Attempting to put a nail into dried, cured hedged takes a bit of effort. I bent many a nail in dried and cured pieces of Osage Orange while playing around in my uncles workshop. When I was a child of about eight years old (I think), I watched as my father and uncle built a barbed wire fence with Osage Orange as posts. Untreated, thirty years later...those posts are still in the ground, rot-free and untouched by termites.
It’s actually because of the invention of barbed-wire (and a bit of shortsightedness on the side of humans today) that Osage Orange is becoming more scarce, and being used as dead fence-posts and un-coppiced firewood, instead of a living hedge and a sustainable source of fuel. To be frank, we humans have a bad habit of valuing things more when they are dead than alive...a habit we must drop. The capitalist corporate mind looks at forests and sees clearings for subdivisions and measure it in board feet, or they see cabinets and fence posts. Unfortunately, they no longer see the rain makers, shade givers, shelter, temperature and water regulators, air filters and air-combs, soil builders and nitrogen fixers. They see the forests use only after it is dead and gone.
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Before 1874 when barbed wire was invented, Osage Orange was better known as the hedge-tree. Pioneers valued it highly as a living hedge, and planted them close together, taking advantage of it’s tolerance to severe pruning, and ability to be coppiced in order to make strong, long lasting, hedges that were “Horse high, bull strong and hog tight.†In other words, tall enough that a horse couldn’t jump it, strong enough that a bull couldn’t push through it and interwoven so tightly that even a hog couldn’t get through. The thorns it produces takes care of discouraging most animals, including the most dangerous one on earth, the human. Due to the gnarly appearance of such hedges, many have evidently come to see it as an “ugly weed tree.†How disappointingly shameful.
If Osage Orange trees are planted out in the open (a situation formerly common on the great-plains) they grow like a shrub. If they are close enough to each other, they will become intertwined to create one of the best living hedges known to man. We might further argue that it’s even better than barbed wire, and much more sustainable to boot considering it’s lighter embodied energy audit.
If Osage Orange trees are grown amongst other woodland competition, or coppiced with proper management, they can grow very tall and straight with the tallest recorded height being 54 feet with a span of 90 feet. On a historical note that tree was grown from fruit sent back by Lewis and Clark from seed which was planted by Patrick Henry’s daughter at Red Hill in Virginia. In fact, Osage Orange was the first tree that Lewis and Clarke sent back from St. Louis.
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The fruit of the tree is a large, green, wrinkled ball with a fragrance like an orange peel (hence the name) that will often stay on the tree after it has lost most of its’ leaves in the autumn. Squirrels go NUTS for the multiple seeds buried inside, and will spend quality time at the base of a tree to disassemble a fruit into bits just to get to all of them. Horses and other livestock enjoy the fruit, although it’s not recommended for humans, as it’s “harsh, hard, dry and astringent.†[Permaculture Info Web] However, it does contain an antioxidant which can be used as a food preservative, especially for oils. “The heartwood and the root can yield a nontoxic antibiotic that is useful as a food preservative.†[PIW] The fruit can also be used as an insect repellant because it contains the chemicals (2,3,4,5-tetrahydroxystilbene) . By cutting one into wedges and setting them on a plate, the fruit sap will repel cockroaches, crickets, spiders, fleas, box elder bugs and ants. If you want to skip the hassle of trying to dig into one of these with a knife, just drive over it with your car...you’ll still get the desired result, although it won’t look as pretty.
On a side note, anyone wishing to be “Johnny Hedge apple Seed†might want to plant both male and female trees so that trees will bear fruit, thus giving us more seeds, and trees to replace the thousands who have fallen due to mankind's’ shortsightedness.
All this information is nice but now let’s get on with the matter at hand.
Fuel...32 million BTU’s per cord. That’s virtually twice the average of most trees, and I will repeat: it’s the closest you’re going to get to coal with wood. Why, in this energy scarce day, would we want to rid ourselves of such a valuable fuel source and waste it on fence posts, shelves and decorative bowls? I guess, because we dangerous humans are idiots.
If we are going to insist on living in an energy intensive cool/cold-temperate climate, and wish to survive the winter without the advantage of cheap oil, natural gas and electricity. We might want to consider the following.
Rip out our aesthetically pleasing, yet highly inefficient fireplaces and franklin stoves. Especially those that are using natural gas. As natural gas has peaked and it’s going to continue to increase in price, along with oil. Fireplaces, and even the slightly more efficient franklin’ stoves do not do much to heat the house, but they do an efficient job of sucking in cold air from the outside, and throwing up a bunch of carbon-dioxide emissions into the air. Just like the suburban lawn, these serve no practical purpose. They are a massive waste of resources for the sake of an aesthetic show of wealth.
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If we truly want to keep warm in an efficient manner, I would suggest installing a well-built, and well-placed masonry stove. With one of these, you could stock a really hot fire of Osage Orange, let it burn out, and the heat will radiate from the masonry throughout the rest of the day. Using a bio-diverse, coppiced, high BTU fuel forest will save you a lot of woodcutting and hauling labor because you will need less wood to provide your heating needs. Furthermore, you will have a higher yield of wood over time for your efforts.
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Keep in mind, that Osage Orange burns hot, but slow, and therefore starts slow (as most hard wood-high BTU producing woods do). You will need some serious kindling to get that baby goin’. This means planting more trees. The more the merrier! For kindling, I suggest trying Aspen, Basswood, Cottonwood, Yellow Poplar or Eastern Red Cedar. These quick burners.
So, we continue planting a bio-diverse fuel forest. A good number of Osage Orange and a few other species from this list above, along with some of the kindling species mentioned should keep you set. You could even harvest and make bundles of Osage-Orange twigs instead of logs that will get the fire burnin’ hot and bright. Speaking of which, the aesthetic value of burning hedged is almost priceless. It gives off a slight fragrance, and a colorful light show of flames accompanied by a crackle and a small concert of pops of sparks (the sparks are small, and usually burn out before hitting the ground thus don’t usually cause damage, but better safe than sorry, and not use it in an open-faced fireplace or stove, just one more reason to opt for a masonry stove).
So, just to recap, Osage Orange planted and coppiced for fuel is our energy efficient ticket to surviving the winter in a cold-temperate climate. Oh... and I almost forgot one of the most important things. It’s hardy to zone 5, succeeds in poor soils (especially dry ones) therefore being drought resistant, and fairly tolerant of maritime exposure. One slight word of warning too: the milky sap from the tree can cause dermatitis in some people, so be careful when harvesting, you’ll want to wear gloves anyway due to the thorns. Hmmm, there’s another use, security barrier!
How Much Is Enough?
How many trees will you need? This, of course, depends on if you’ve wisely followed the advice above, and have a masonry stove (better yet, having it installed in a passive solar straw-bale or earthbag house built toward sun aspect) with the proper amount of windows on proper sides and with sufficient awning or roof overhang to allow winter sun onto a radiant heat mass while also keeping the summer sun off your outside walls. If you’re simply going to go for a cord, here is the Firewood cutter’s rule of thumb.
Tree Size Number of Trees Per Cord
5 DBH 46-55
6 DBH 21-33
Now unless you’re a lumberjack, or semipro wood cutter, you’re probably wondering what the blazes is a DBH. That stands for diameter at breast height, taken by measuring a tree’s diameter at about 4 1/2 feet from the ground. Now, this list only goes up to 6 DBH for one reason. Most trees are coppiceable if they are less than 6 inches in diameter and less than 10 feet tall. Therefore, if we want the tree to survive and continue providing us with firewood in a sustainable manner, we don’t want to let it grow bigger than that. So, we will need, on average, about 34 of the above trees to produce one cord of firewood (if that is the amount you really need). I would suggest more, as we are going to coppice them on rotation. The average by today’s standard home (considering the average home is lacking sufficient insulation, has ceilings too high, and if it has a fireplace or stove, it’s inefficient) needs 4 1/2 to seven full cords of wood per year to heat. I will be bold here and state that this is probably due to the fact that modern structures aren’t built toward energy efficiency, and most people don’t burn wood that kicks out a high BTU. The common, lazy fire builder usually goes for lighter, faster burning woods.
I will further venture to make a brave guess, that a straw-bale or earthbag home properly designed and placed to take advantage of passive solar heat, with a masonry stove burning Osage Orange will only need one or two cords per year maximum. However, I have yet to see anyone that has done this. I might also add, that the above numbers were probably taken from trees that weren’t coppiced, therefore the amount of wood harvested from those trees will have been much, much less, especially over time.
Optional High BTU trees/Words of Warning and Tips:
Many permaculturists will be excited to see that Black Locust (Robinia pseudoacacia) is on the Top 10 BTU list. Although the Permaculture Info Web says it is hardy to zone 3 and fixes nitrogen (the only tree on the list that supposedly does so) we should not get too excited. The report later says that “The leaves are rich in tannin and other substances which inhibit the growth of other plants....(it’s) a very greedy tree, tending to impoverish the soil (Although a legume, I believe it does not fix atmospheric nitrogen).†[PIW]
So there seems to be an open debate as to whether or not this tree is Nitrogen Fixing. Even if it is, it seems to impoverish the soil, and exhibits some antisocial behavior not suitable to a bio-diverse well stacked planting.
White Oak (Quercus alba) has 9 uses including edible seed that can be used as a caffeine-free coffee substitute. It’s is hardy to zone 4, and is Lime tolerant as well as side-shade tolerant. A mulch of leaves repels slugs and grubs although fresh leaves shouldn’t be used, as they can inhibit the growth of other plants.
Black Locust (Robinia pseudoacacia) (see above warning) is a fast growing deciduous tree that withstands drought and tolerates poor soil while being hardy to zone 3. It brags of about 25 uses including edible seed and seed pod, can be used as a drink and has fragrant vanilla-like scented flowers. Beware that the branches are brittle and subject to wind-damage.
Ironwood (Ostrya virginiana) is a slow growing deciduous tree that is hardy to zone 4 and doesn’t demand much light. A decoction of the bark can be used medicinally to bathe sore muscles, and an infusion of the bark can be held in the mouth to relieve toothache pain. Good fuel, but very difficult to split, so if you want your kid to have big strong muscles, and work on their temper, or if they need to blow off some steam... get them to do the splitting (under close supervision).
Shagbark hickory (Carya ovata) is “a slow growing deciduous tree... [but] is the fastest growing hickory in N. America†(PIW) hardy to zone 4. It’s seeds can be eaten raw or cooked and are used in pies, cakes and bread. Medicinally, the fresh small shoots can be steamed to make an inhalant for the treatment of headaches. It also produces an excellent charcoal.
Apple (Malus comestica) needs almost no introduction, and there’s so much information out there already, I won’t go in to any further detail here. However it is hardy to zone 3, withstands frost, and seems to be able to grow well near a wall or in the secondary layer, or in woodland gardens. It’s ability to grow close to walls may offer you the benefit of giving you a fuel and food source in zone I near the house.
Honey Locust (Gleditsia triacanthos) is a deciduous tree hardy to zone 3 that withstands drought and poor soil (including saline soil) making it ideal for soil reclamation projects. The seeds have many edible and medicinal uses.
Bitternut (Carya cordiformis) is the tree for you if you have a boggy swamp area. It’s a slow growing deciduous tree that is hardy to zone 4 and succeeds in low wet to dry woods, stream banks and on the borders of swamps. Produces seeds that are edible, but even squirrels don’t seem to like it much (according to PIW).
Last, but not least, we have the beloved and highly edible Mulberry (Morus species): a deciduous tree that might do well in the second layer in the canopy or in a woodland garden. Often grown for the fruit, it’s often looked over as a fuel source - afterall 25.8 million BTU’s per cord ain't bad. It certainly isn’t anything close to Osage Orange, but it’s still in the top 10. It’s a good addition to any bio-diverse planting as it also gives you the added benefit of edible fruit.
Although I’ve spent a great deal of time concentrating on Osage Orange, I can’t emphasize enough the need for bio-diverse plantings. Most of these high BTU trees are slow growing, this is one more reason to coppice, and mix up your fuel forest with a variety of trees to help you get through the winter.
I would also like to suggest that we take a good serious look at the way we use our trees. Do we value them alive or dead? Do we wish to get the most out of them? If so, then we must use them wisely, as both a windbreak, hedgerow, shade giver, soil stabilizer as well as a source for fuel and food. We must also carefully look at how we use our lumber. Are we really going to use Osage Orange to make a bunch of decorative pens, jewelry boxes or pen holders? To me, this is somewhat similar to the executive who spends thousands of dollars on a platinum umbrella stand. We could be better use Osage Orange to take advantage of it’s rot resistance in the form of outdoor structures, door frames, planter-boxes and trellises, or perhaps bowls and cups? If we wish to get the most out of whatever resources we have, we have to use them wisely and use their advantages to our advantage.
I'll let you decide which one is a wiser use...
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Finally, trees are not just lumber and firewood. They are a part of this living ecosystem that we depend on for our survival. They aren’t of much use to us dead. There seems to be a prevailing attitude that cutting down (and thus killing) a full grown tree is the best way to serve mankind. The support for this argument is that you get “more†wood from the tree and large, wide pieces of lumber, or more “board-feet.†This thinking is fundamentally flawed. First of all, you get a greater yield over time, if you sustainably harvest from a coppiced or pollarded tree. Secondly, why do we need large pieces of lumber? Isn’t it true that anything that needs to be made big, can be made by joining many smaller pieces of wood together? Let’s save cutting down full-grown trees for those who’s time has come from old age, have succumbed to illness, or are creating a hazard. The indiscriminant hacking down trees for our own selfish purposes is doing more harm than good.
Tips For the Novice Woodsman:
For your own safety, please, please, please learn from someone who knows what they’re doing when felling a tree. Use a good quality saw with good sharp blades (it will save you a lot of effort, wear and tear on the body, and swear words). Carefully consider wind direction, natural lean and balance of the tree, location of large limbs, and the surrounding area where the tree is likely to fall. Make sure the area around the tree is clear of brush, and make an escape safety zone. Be sure to back far away from the stump so the trunk doesn’t kick off and hit you when it falls. Trees don’t always fall the way you want them to (see story below). If a tree becomes lodged in another tree while falling, the safest way to get the tree down is to pull it away from the other tree with a tractor or winch. Never attempt to cut the tree in which the felled tree is lodged, and never try to climb the tree either. Always move away at a 45-degree angle from the direction of the falling tree to the side and rear of the tree as it falls.
Don’t ever try the following:
Once, I was felling a tree on my in-law’s property, about a 30-40 ft evergreen. I didn’t take into consideration the wind direction because I was down in a sheltered area, while the tree top was up above in the mountainous winds around Mt. Fuji. Furthermore, I didn’t make my undercut or back-cut properly and carefully as I was in a hurry (big mistake number one: never hurry) When the tree started to fall, it went the opposite way toward a steel fence surrounding a turf tennis-court. A nightmare of expensive damage flashed through my mind, and I jumped between the tree and the fence (big mistake number two), put my feet back on the fence and put all my weight (all 130 lbs of me) pushing against the tree in hopes I could offset the wind, and get it to fall in the proper direction. I got the tree to stop falling, but couldn’t offset the wind. I was quickly becoming tired, and was thinking about how to get myself out of this situation. Luckily, my wife, and mother-in-law came around to see how things were going, and they were silly enough to endanger themselves to run over and help me, and we got the tree to fall the proper direction. This was insanely stupid. damage of property is always more welcome than causing physical damage to yourself and loved ones. Never hurry, and plan ahead carefully. Hopefully, we’ll all coppice trees less than 10 ft. tall and less than 6 inches in diameter, so we won’t ever be in such a situation...but remember. SAFETY FIRST!
jt8
whale now, I just have to comment.There is more to a fuel than just the number of BTUs in a cord or in a pound..
But that is all he is focused on it seems.Apple and iron wood do make for a hot burn, but they have other drawbacks. Such as being so dense that the Oxygen does not get to it well, and then only the outer surface can burn. That makes it burn slower so there are times when the slower fire means that less BTUs per hour are released to heat the house.The woods like the oaks and ash and locust have open grain straws running through the wood that allows for passage of air and more wood can be consumed at one time for the same size pieces. That also means these woods will dry quicker too.And dry wood is the most critical thing to be considering. It takes extra BTUs to dry the wood in the fire if it is damp, so energy that could be heating a house is being wasted to dry and carry moisture up the chimney, where that material can be getting deposited as creosote as well, depending on other conditions.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Whatever I can cut for free is numero uno.
Joe H
Thanx for the PDF.
Years ago when living in MD we heated the shop and house with wood. About 10 chords a year.
Besides the 'roadside' wood, we would get slab wood from the local saw mill. I had a source in WV for untreated cut off RR ties (air dried) that was the best burning wood I have ever burned.
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
looks like the first fire of the season tomorrow night - and the woodshed is in good condition -
and piffin's right - btu's per cord is only a single measure of a complex issue - I've burned a lot of apple - it's alright, but leaves a lot of ash - it's also 'dirty', with a flakey bark that leaves a trail at every stage, and processing to stove length and diameter is problematic -
Osage Orange is dangerous to cut, with thorns that will maim, not to mention the low ratio of firewood to brush -
Ironwood is fine, but a small tree generally, so laying in a cord or two involves felling many modest trees, I've never seen a large stand of it, just scattered trees -
oaks are generally good, if allowed to dry for at least a full year -
hickory is good, tho prone to borers in the stack, making a powdery mess trailing all the way to the stove - I've observed that tho it burns well and long, it doesn't burn as hot - generally I'll lay some hickory to the back of the fire, burn hotter wood in front, and then be left with wonderful coals to ignite the next load -
the author doesn't mention ash, which rates above at least half of the species mentioned - clean, easy to split, little brush, will burn green (tho better if seasoned, obviously) - if I had to use only one specie, ash would be it -
David, if I had to pick one species, it would be alligator bark juniper. I used to cut and burn that when I lived in Flagstaff,Az and nothing I ever tried burned better, hotter, longer, or cleaner.
Split great when dry, too.
Only place I ever saw it was there in Arizona. I saw trees that three men couldn't reach around.
Amazing tree.
'Me not built for pretty - Me built for strong' TM
Edited 9/29/2008 9:46 pm by Heck
I'd expect it to spit and pop a lot - I keep a bit of juniper around, split off small slabs to lay on a trivet just for the fragrance - makes great kindling - don't have a picture of one of those trees, do ya? - I bet they have a lot of character - "there's enough for everyone"
I do have some pictures, but they are the print kind. Here are some I found on the web.
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http://www.woodswest.com/html/our-woods.html
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'Me not built for pretty - Me built for strong' TM
One of the loads from last winter had 2 or 3 pieces of some mystery wood. Maybe 10" diameter, so I figured maybe it was some kind of bush. fairly smooth bark. Fairly dense wood. very pungent when it burned and at first I thought it was unseasoned because fluid began to bubble out of it... but then the fluid caught fire, so must have been some kind of sap.
I have no idea what it was. The first piece I yanked out and tossed into the back yard cuz I didn't want sappy wood polluting my chimney.... but then when the firewood got low later in the season, I ended up burning 'em anyway.jt8
looks like the first fire of the season tomorrow night -
Not near cold enough for me. I'm going to be temporarily disconnecting the wood stove so that the drywall guys can get access to the corner. So it isnt' allowed to get too cold for the next week or so.
Osage Orange is dangerous to cut, with thorns that will maim, not to mention the low ratio of firewood to brush -
LOL, the trick is to drive up as someone is trying to dispose of one and then just pick out a few choice pieces and thereby avoid about half the hassle.
Ironwood is fine, but a small tree generally, so laying in a cord or two involves felling many modest trees, I've never seen a large stand of it, just scattered trees -
I don't even know if I've seen an ironwood tree. Is it more of a gnarly bush-tree like a hedge or mulberry?
oaks are generally good, if allowed to dry for at least a full year -
Yes, oak is very good. Whites better than reds, but even red oak is better than many other species (like cherry, walnut, hackberry).
the author doesn't mention ash, which rates above at least half of the species mentioned - clean, easy to split, little brush, will burn green (tho better if seasoned, obviously) - if I had to use only one specie, ash would be it -
Seems like ash varies. Some of it burns ok, but other kinds of ash burn quick. I don't know which is which.
I've observed that tho it burns well and long, it doesn't burn as hot
I usually just get it in small batches so don't have much experience in burning big lots of it.
jt8
Mainly what Doud was talking about and what the author mentioned about labor.
Ash doesnt hold a high btu value but it has may plusses.
Its moisture content all ow it to burn green but as pif mentions its open grained.
Probably my most favorite charteristic about ask is labor and being able to burn it green or in a short time.
I like this one the best; You can fall a ash tree thats three foot through and split all of it by hand easily and quickly. Larger trees make more wood but some are hard to split . A maul falls through ash which helps tired old arms. I can handle an ash in my condition. A few more trips to the stove but lighter. Its easy to split its kindling with a small axe. One of the most import things is little mess . On the bigger stuff all you carry in is heart wood and it doesnt make a mess.
The oaks and hickories lead my area for firewood usage . We have a lot of shag bark hickory. A lot of oak and hickory but no Osage or iron wood. The hickory logs go to the back on an all night burn while the ash makes the morning chill fires and evening fires.
I can tell the difference in heat out put of different woods .
Some days you dont want an all day fire becasue the weather is too warm. Just a morning fire of ash does the trick . Otherwise you would have hickory coals when you got home and a very hot house.
All types of wood should be separated for different uses.
I have a junk pile of it as I call it . Through the year I cut limbs and dead trees on my properties . Jumbalyia wood . I even cut up 4 ft wood staves the lumber yard throws off the truck for blocking lumber. I probably can go half the year heating from this wood that came home a limb at a time so so speak.
I worked with an old carp that got all his wood that way. He was always early to work unless he got distracted by a limb across the road. He would see a limb down or a tree and ask if he could cut some wood but he wouldnt "clean up or work for them doing it " He cut a lot of limbs off trees too big for him to work before the tree guy got there. His answer was to keep a small chain saw behind the truck seat and have it ready. A full tank of oil and gas would cut most jobs without hauling oil and gas around all the time . I bought a small commerical tree saw with that in mind and its worked well.
Tim
Tim
I too keep a sharp pruning type blade for the cordless sawzall in the van at all times. I often have gotten nice stuff just for being the first there on the scene.
I cut up a ton of kindling type stuff just around our yard and woods with a cordless circ saw or sawzall and then the wife takes the wheelbarrow around and gathers it up..we ain't picky , we burn it all.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
I dont know why but somone makes an oak blocking 4 ft and it somes with different stuff. Im talking it looks like its been center routed . I dont get it really but the lumber yard gets scads of them. They sell the ones made of pine for .25 cents that they get for free . They got smart.
Anyway I was there one day and theirs a pile thats big enough to fill up my pickup of oak 4 footers they got as blocking . I simply asked if I could have it . He said sure . We separted it from the pine to trash it . We dont have a need for it . We get them every day off trucks delivering to us .
They made close to a rick of wood . If I was interrested it would be a year round source.
The hardwood mill used to give away the end cuts off the heal of the log before they sawed them up. They get 15 dollars a load for it now . They loaded a 16 foot utility trailer for me for the same 15 bucks . I think I already told you that one .
Point is its the heaviest wood on the tree. They made great wood stove stuffers as they all go through the door and they are different sizes. I dont ever split them. Ive got a huge insert with a big door luckily. If they are huge I place them in the back and pile the smaller stuff in front and poof , in 8 hrs they are gone but leave glowing coals since they are so dense.
They dont stack worth a shid but its the price I have to pay. <G>
Tim
Those are chocks for shipping plywood and stuff, the routed groove is for the banding straps. Good stuff right there. I used to get them in Asheville, from a Hardwood supplier..some were Ipe and Teak and Mahogony.
Same here with the butt logs, I have a guy that gets them and splitts it up..fills my one ton full, for about 50 bucks. I just hooked up with a tree trimmer guy, and his prices are even better, he has it all split and sttored in a barn, dry sycamore, Ash,elm, walnut, cherry,maple,hackberry,kent.coffee tree, osage..you name it, he has some.
I had extensive work done here on my trees, so I have a few cord laying around waiting till cooler temps for me to dice and fluff. A few maple saw logs too. Lots of Locust..I love locust. Burns like coal.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
no fire tonight - forecast a couple of days ago said it would be cold rain all day with a NW wind - tho cool, it's dry and quite a bit of sun - now suppose to be real nice for a few days -fall weather is some of my favorite - "there's enough for everyone"
I'm with ya on the fall weather.
Favorite seasons in order.
Fall, Spring, Winter and Summer.
Russell
"Welcome to my world"
fall weather is some of my favorite -
I agree. Days are still moderately long. Crisp weather means you can work outside without overheating and don't have to worry about bundling up. Good weather for getting stuff done.
jt8
No mention of hard maple?
Plenty good burning there and found much around these parts. Burns well even with just a short drying season.
No mention of hard maple?
Seems like soft maple is more common hereabouts. And it isn't impressive in the wood stove.
jt8
I have leaned soft maple is more of a liability than an asset in the wood piles in that she has to be kept bone dry to be of a practical use and that thicker bark is of the nasty stuff.
Fortunately the thin barked hard maple is much more predominate in these parts than the soft so I don't run into it too much, especially after learning thru here what it was.
be what it is and what it was
We have a wood here in TX (Post Oak) that is very dense and burns with a good blue flame. It's not useful for much (wood working, etc) and pretty much grows wild (like mesquite). It has little ash and starts easy, as well as few pops and sparks. Besides, if you keep an eye out for areas being cleared by developers, you can get all you want for free.Just my 2 cents ....
It seems a sin, but I've paid for my firewood the last two winters and will probably do so again this year. Been busy working on a house and am truck-less at the moment.
LOL, so if I'm paying for someone else to do all the cutting and splitting, i'd rather have the long burning stuff.jt8
"LOL, so if I'm paying for someone else to do all the cutting and splitting, i'd rather have the long burning stuff."
You are correct.
Thats why people here that buy their wood wont except any thing except oak or hickory because of weight = BTUs per cord.
Tim
"...am truck-less ..."It takes a big man to admit his shortcomings like that. Do you want to start a support group or are you OK going it alone?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Actually it is a huge PITA being truck-less. I MIGHT need a support group! Especially if they have trucks. :)
jt8
I thought a man must own both a truck and a chainsaw, as a matter of course...
welcome home rez, I was afraid you'd be on sabbatical for another 5-6 weeks;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
mumble mumble mumble mumble
mumble
Right, where is hard maple on the list? It's the best we got, around here. We used to have a lot of dead elm snags from the big dutch elm die off. I once heated my house for a whole winter by scrounging elm snags. It's really pretty good wood, though it smells funny. Since it was seasoned on the stump, no splitting was necessary, thankfully. Splitting that stuff would be good work for a prison boot camp.We have black ash, which is a far cry from the white ash you easterners have. It takes two years to dry it. Then when you burn it,you will find out why they named it "ash".
The odor of elm.
Is that the same I have heard unaffectionately called 'pisselm' because of the smell?
rez
American elm which is the dominant elm is a lousy wood to heat with. Nearly impossible to split and when burning can actaully suck heat from other woods and cause them to go out..
In addition it stinks when burning, so much so that when I burned it in my fireplace the neighbors accused me of burning garbage.
Red elm is better but still not decent and any elm has been known to attack woodworkers in their sleep and slide slivers under their fingernails which cause massive infections..
That plus Elm has been know to rot on a foggy day.
I think it's fair top say that I am not a fan of elm..
Ive got a book that says elm burns like church yard mold.
I dont know what kinda mold that is but it certainly references elm pretty good.
I bought a house that had a huge elm die in the front yard.
I bought an insert for the fire place and that was my first wood fo it .
The elm didnt burn very well at all and put out much heat.
I finally brought in some oak and hickory and noticed how much diference there was in heat , flame , and ashes.
Some people burn elm because its their best firewood.
Tim
Excellant! May I please use that phrase in the future to describe the burning charcteristics of Elm?
And all this time I thought the smell was coming from JohnT8's woodstove with all the osb cutoffs he burns in there.
Jt8 is gonna shoot me now
"The odor of elm. Is that the same I have heard unaffectionately called 'pisselm' because of the smell?"Come to think of it, you might be right. That's what my Dad used to call it. Everyone is saying how lousy it is, but I guess it's what you compare it to. No hickory in these parts. Lot's of aspen, soft maple, paper birch (which is the best we got). If you were from parts of the PNW, where doug fir is their best wood, you'd burn a stove load of elm and think you died and went to heaven. The stuff I had died standing and had been curing for at least 10 years. Made a nice bed of coals. Not a fireplace wood.
I'll put in a good word for RED elm that has died and dried standing. Strange smell aside, dead red elm is considered the gormet firewood around SE MN. Clean, dry, pretty good BTU content, splits fairly well green or dried. The kind you're willing to cart quite a ways out of the woods to the trailer.
I can second this.
I have dozens of tall (30 to 50 ft, 18-24" dia) standing dead red elm trees. When first split, they have an "twangy" smell, that goes away in a few weeks. Burns very hot and clean. The ash does tend to clump into big "clinkers", but that make removal very easy. I burn 2-1/2 to 3 full cords of various hardwoods every season (maple, cherry, hickory, walnut, ash, oak and red elm), most of which is red elm. All of which I take off of my heavily wooded lot when it falls The red elm is great firewood. I love it.
John
all that is true and I admit I've burned my share of wood. Well more than my share actually <grin>
However, please be aware that burning wood does have some real costs as regards health.
the smoke from burning wood can become more than an nuisance. I've been in valleys etc. where the smoke lingers and causes all sorts of breathing problems especially with young children..
It's worst with fires that are restricted from getting sufficent air in order to slow down the rate of burn..
In addition chimney fires are a real threat as is fires started from sparks or ashes on roof tops or even sparks flying from the coals or whatever.
A couple more comments.. I love the smell of cherry, apple, and pear burning..
I really love the blue flame of cherry when it gets down to the coals. I hate the smell of white oak. Unlike the myth I've never had a single problem burning black walnut.
The finest fire I've found comes from hard maple that has been debarked..
Much of the ash in fires comes from the bark so if you buy slab wood from the sawmills ask for that. (bark also contains a lot of the dirt and bugs in wood too so debarked wood is a real bonus in the neat and tidy part..
Much of the ash in fires comes from the bark so
Hate to disagree, but most of teh 'ash' in my fires for many years came from the nails in old pallets <G>
Lots of us are simply stuck with little choice of what types to burn, unless we want to spend enough on gas to drive out of the area to get wood. Kinda ruins the economy of it, though.
In southern Colorado, not counting what's grown in the cities, gambel oak is the best wood, but a real pain to collect. Most of the trees are 15-20' tall and you're lucky if you can find a few 5" rounds. We do also have "mexican" black locust here and there, but it's even harder to find than gambel oak.
The best I've been able to come up with in volume is fir, but I still have to drive 40 miles to get it.
Like Heck said, I used to burn alligator juniper in arizona and it was really good.
Also used to burn red elm in Iowa. I haven't seen it mentioned, but it burns very well and is really easy to split, unlike other elm.
I dont know your country. Just thought Id add somthing that may be hit or miss.
We have pulp wood haulers here that work out of ton to 2 ton trucks with pole racks as a keeper for 8 ft logs crosswise on he frame of the truck. They have a pole winch that loads and pulls logs out of the woods to the truck.
Those guys will bring a load of logs 8 ft long a lot cheaper than firewood cutters . They haul a lot more wood so the distance wouldnt be as much a factor if theres such people around there.
Tim
Has,been
Same here just north of you. All we have is Pine, Pine & more Pine. With the beetle kill of the lodgepole, I don't understand why the Gov't does'nt step in & open a pellet plant & put all that dead wood to use?
Have you driven I-70 west of Denver or been to Winter-Park , Rocky Mt. National Park or Steamboat area in the past Year? 100s of miles of standing dead lodgepole pine! When the fire comes & it will, going to be the biggest winne roast the forest service is ever going to deal with! & a major power line runs through the stands of dead timber.
I thought Pinion Pine was the best wood for burnning in Southren Colo?
I don't like pinon. It's got so much pitch it leaves everything sticky and gummy. Smells good, though.I haven't been up along I-70 for about three years or so. I remember cutting in big areas of standing dead lodgepole around 1980 up Eldorado Canyon. We thought it was bad then.
drove that stretch west of Denver last July - can't remember the town/lake off hand, but it was dramatic the number of dead trees covering the hillsides in the area - sad to see - is the pine bark beetle an native insect? - I know insect infestations are cyclic, but the extent of tree death is breathtaking - "there's enough for everyone"
It's real bad, will be soon & they will be up at the place we have in the mts.
here's a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_pine_beetle
I don't understand why the Gov't does'nt step in & open a pellet plant & put all that dead wood to use?
About 48 seconds after the Forest Service announces they are opening forests to logging the tree huggers file their lawsuits.
That standing dead wood is only salvagable for a few years, then it's worthless.
Lawsuits tie it up long enough to ensure the forest will burn eventually.
Joe H
A friend just retired to Carson City NV, bought a fgew acres that had burned off a couple years ago so he would not have to fight a clearing permit.
Apparently much of the shoreline of Lake Tahoe has dead pine, ready for a real tinderbox fire. So much for 'green' vs. enviro-luddites.
Junkhound
when you say "green" vs enviroluddites just wich republicans are you speaking of?
Teddy Roosevelt? Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan?
They've all signed environmental legislation into existance..
Those would be the treehuggers with lawyers.
The ones who won't allow any logging, drilling, power plants, highways, you name it.
those republicans.
Joe H
Beetle problem and consequent standing dead timber is a result of not allowing the natural burning cycle to take out susceptible wood and insect colonies and increasing lack of the hard winter freezes that also kill off the insect. Fire fighting is for the benefit of forestry and preservation of the communities that have spread to the edge of the forest, not the treehuggers.
There are plenty of dead trees here, 10' or more of snow in the winter. Below 0º, how much more freeze do they need?
Joe H
well, first fire of the season tonight - I probably wouldn't have, if it was just me, but if momma ain't comfortable, I am not either - a stick of hickory a bit of kindling, three chunks of ash - might throw two/three more sticks on when I go to bed, maybe not - "there's enough for everyone"
>>>well, first fire of the season tonightI always look forward to wood burning season. It's funny, because by Springtime I've had plenty enough of splitting wood every night. I'm very interested in this Winter's wood... I worked like a slave this Spring to buck and stack seven cords of wood (as opposed to last Winter when we burnt nothing but semi-green wood; Ugh.). Should be an interesting contrast.Last weekend I swept all of last Winter's chimney creosote (lots by the way....green wood definitely = fire hazard), and now I'm ready for a darn fine season of steady, long-burning heat.Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.â€
You're just burning out the cobwebs.
;)
jt8
<<...Severe cold is the mountain pine beetle's biggest enemy, but the beetle infestation has now moved so far south that cold temperatures are not likely effectively able to control them.- An early cold snap of -30 C for as little as one day prior to mid-November will kill pine beetles.- As winter advances, however, beetle larvae create glycol -- natural antifreeze -- within their bodies.- After mid-November, a prolonged cold snap of -40 C for two weeks or longer is required to kill beetles.- 1985, when Vanderhoof was hit with a -37 C Halloween, was the last time pine beetles in B.C. met a killing cold in the fall.Source: Bob Clark, B.C. mountain pine-beetle program coordinator...>>
Most of the stands stricken with MPB are Lodgepole pine. Lodgepole has a fire return interval that is longer than the timespan of human interference (in the form of fire suppression). Most of these forests last burned naturally about 100 years ago, about the same as the length of the typical LP fire cycle.This means suppression of fire in these forests has had little effect, as these stands of trees have not, on average, missed a cycle. The forests are now ready for fire and disease, as nature intended.
<<...Disturbance, Forest Age, and Mountain Pine Beetle
Outbreak Dynamics in BC: A Historical PerspectiveS.W. Taylor and A.L. Carroll
Natural Resources Canada, Canadian Forest Service, Pacific Forestry Centre,
506 West Burnside Road, Victoria, V8Z 1M5AbstractDuring the past 85 years, there have been four large-scale outbreaks by the mountain pine
beetle (Dendroctonus ponderosae) in the pine forests of British Columbia. Using contemporary
forest inventory data in combination with wildfire and logging statistics, we developed
a simple age-class projection model to estimate changes in pine age-class distribution
between 1910 and 2110. We compared past and present mountain pine beetle activity
to forest age structure, and projected future forest conditions relevant to mountain pine
beetle susceptibility. “Backcast†forest conditions suggest that during the early 1900s,
approximately 17% of pine stands were in age classes susceptible to mountain pine
beetle attack. Since then, the amount of area burned by wildfire in British Columbia has
significantly decreased. This reduction in wildfire has resulted in an increase in the average
age of pine stands to the present day such that approximately 55% of pine forests are in age
classes considered susceptible to mountain pine beetle. At the present rate of disturbance,
average stand age is forecast to continue to increase, but the amount of susceptible pine
will decline following 2010 and stabilize at about 18% by 2110. The extent of mountain
pine beetle outbreaks was correlated with the increase in amount of susceptible pine
during 1920-2000. However, outbreak extent increased at a greater rate than the increase
in susceptible forest indicating that other factors such as climate may be affecting mountain
pine beetle epidemics. Theoretical fire-return cycles of 40 - 200 years would generate a
long-term average susceptibility range of 17% - 25% over large areas. This suggests that
the extent of age-related, mountain pine beetle-susceptible pine forests in British Columbia
is beyond the natural range of variability at a provincial scale...>>http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:nPWe18jW2qgJ:www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/library/MPB/taylor_2004_disturb.pdf+lodgepole+pine+fire+return+cycle&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=ca
The baseline for that study was 1910, with MPB susceptibility of 17%. This was a time when a large portion of western NA forests had recently burned and LP forests were young healthy seedlings. Selecting that time in fire history for the baseline would bias the study, to some degree.That said, many stands are in decline and are loaded with MPB, dwarf mistletoe, etc. This has produced ideal conditions for another round of fires like those of 100 years ago.The fact remains, that these are low frequency, high intensity fire regimes and most have not missed a cycle (though, even as a former wildland firefighter, I still advocate the "let burn policy").On the other hand, Some Ponderosa pine forests (also prime MPB targets) have fire return intervals of 25 to 50 years (high frequency, low intensity regimes). Many of those stands have skipped several fire events due to fire fighting efforts with predictable results (higher fuel loading that will boost the intensity of the inevitable fire and increase average age and disease & insect issues in the meantime).
I'm not well enough versed in forestry science to evaluate the data but I would offer two points.The first is that fire does not happen throughout the forest once every 100 years but rather happens in smaller patches on an ongoing basis leaving a patchwork of different age stands. Fire prevention over the last hundred years has led to a greater average age of the forest and consequent increase in the volume of MPB susceptible timber which results in greater populations of the beetle. Greater populations lead to more and faster outbreaks and greatly complicate efforts to return the beetle populations to ecologically balanced levels.The second is that in BC where the MPB problem has reached catastrophic levels, there is a consensus among forestry scientists that forest fire suppression is a major contributor to the MPB outbreak. Since BC has historically relied on timber harvesting, the science has been well studied here and the conclusions can be considered reliable.
--"Fire prevention over the last hundred years has led to a greater average age of the forest."That would only be true if timber harvesting had not been occurring on a massive scale during the last 100 years.Besides, fire suppression efforts prior to WW2 can largely be discounted. Methods were so primitive (no air support, no pumps and hoses, etc.) that any fire that "wanted" to burn just ignored the humans.I can tell you as a firefighter in Yellowstone Park in '88, that I was just paid to be chased all over the forest by fires that would not be contained, no matter what we did. The snows of October finally did the job.Another point is that LP forests are, for the most part, vast, single-aged stands. Ecologically they tend to be about as diverse as a corn field or a lawn. They are such a mono-culture, that some forest ecologists have described them as ecological deserts. Many areas dominated by virtual single species LP forests plagued by MPB will be replaced by mixed Douglas-fir, Spruce and Fir, etc. Nature likes diversity and MPB may be aiding the cause. Wherever the MPB produces favorable conditions for fire, the LP and Aspen will regenerate.
Edited 10/13/2008 5:28 pm ET by basswood
Here in BC, LP is secondary to more valuable species and the harvest has historically not been aggressive though it may have been in your area. Although we have had large fires in the past, we don't replace the entire crop every 100 years through fire, but rather in smaller pieces spread over that time. That has led to greater average age of the standing crop of LP, a biological reality in our situation.
They will salvage sale harvest as much standing dead LP as possible, burn the slash to reseed the forest from the serotinous cones in some seed trees, and a new forest will spring to life.I suspect the MPB population was at hyper-epidemic levels just before the extensive wildfires of about 100 years ago. Plenty of standing dead trees, just waiting for a drought and a series of "catastrophic" wildfires.Here is a pic I took 20 years ago, during the "terrible fires" of '88. That forest is a beautiful place now. Somewhere around here I have a pic of me that appeared in USA Today that summer. We were attempting to control hot spots that had jumped the fire line. All for naught, the fire was too aggressive for us, even with slurry bomber backup.
We have been working at salvage for some time now, but the volume has vastly overwhelmed demand. Most won't be taken before it loses it's value and that leaves the forest as a tinderbox awaiting that errant lightning strike or cigarette butt. Estimates say that 80% of the crop will be affected by 2013, far too much for a controlled burn. Here's a link to an animation that shows the progression of the infestation in BC from 1959 to 2002. The picture is considerably worse now. Interesting to see that the beetle really didn't establish a good foothold until the '70s and to note the effect of the hard freeze down to -6F that pushed south into central BC from the north in late October of '85.http://www.pfc.cfs.nrcan.gc.ca/entomology/mpb/historical/images/mpb800.gifEdited 10/14/2008 3:05 pm by observer
Edited 10/14/2008 7:45 pm by observer
Interesting.Lodgepole has to burn to reproduce, so it is going to burn sooner or later. Fire is a friend of the forest, not the foe Smokey Bear makes it out to be.Humans aren't generally keen on fires burning in their neighborhood, but it is an essential force of nature.In Montana, we did stand conversion work, that involved cutting down LP that was not merchantable and using prescribed fire that burned hot enough to consume most of the LP seeds, allowing adjacent stands of DF or Spruce to seed in the burn, or we planted more desirable species.Our FMO (fire management officer) was so aggressive with prescribed fire that his motto was "we are either fighting fires or we are lighting them." Basically, if fire danger was not high, he was using fire as a tool.
basswood,
Living where you do I'm surprised at you!
Minnesota has massively more trees now than virtually any point in her history.. Something like 1950 we had 5 milion trees greater than 20 inches. Today Minnesota has something like 19 milion such sized trees..
You're down in the hardwood forest where much of the hardwood is found (well there and across the river in Wisconsin)..
There's gotta be hundreds of woodmizers around you.. With all the farmers wood lots etc..
But this isn't just Minnesota,, Sure modern plantation grown species aren't as massive as the Big eastern White Pine that was so comon in Minnesota turn of the last century nor are there as many 2000 year old 350 feet tall Old growth trees out west..
But acreage is planted with million, heck billions of commerical trees.
While those are growing we've been harvesting BC and Alaskan trees.. once all those are commerically exploited we'll start to take the limitless forests of Russia down slowly. By the time all those are fully exploited our own forests will once again be ready for harvesting..
Note I've ignored urban tress and southern pine etc. which are further increases in woodlands..
What are you surprised by? I have no problem with sustainable timber harvesting (I have a B.S. in forestry from Colorado State), that post was simply stating a fact regarding the scale of harvesting in Western North America during the past 100 years and the obvious effect that harvesting has had on the average age of trees in the forest.I buy hardwood by the truckload.Farmers in this area would be wise to increase the size of their tree farming operations. A small walnut plantation could put their grandkids through college.
Sorry I misread the tone of your post.
Yes we have harvested all but 2% of our old growth forests, but as I pointed out we currantly are gowing 4X more large trees than we had when I was born!
The fact that they're hardwood instead of softwood is a moot point to me..
No worries,Lunch brake is over...I gotta head back out to the shop and put some doors and shelves in an oak cabinet I am building for a showroom.All the best,B
I didn't realize it was that bad.I also just now learn that hasbeen changed his screenname to husbandman?
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Not sure if will be up in the MTs. this weekend, but the next time will take a photo for all, dead trees (only the lodgepole pine) for miles & miles. They say in the next 5 years 95% of the lodgepole in the Rocky Mts will be beetle killed!
Yes Hasbeen has a new handle!
Naw , the beetles will leave in three years. They will attack somthing else . Dont guess they are the same beetle .
First was our pine , next it was elm ,next its was red oaks . Its over . Lasted about 9 years.
They wont stay.
Tim
The pine beetles were there when I left twenty years ago, just been getting worse all this time
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Wonder why it didnt work that way here?
Maybe they hitched a ride with the LP folks who moved to CO, LOL
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Here's a few for You, enough Deadwood to last a long ,long ,long time! Few camp grounds were closed this summer USFS was afraid that trees would fall over on Campers.
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don't bet on it...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
The beetles got bad after Euell Gibbons died.
'Me not built for pretty - Me built for strong' TM
I hear they taste like wild hickr'y nuts.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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They kill Prophets, for Profits.
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The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
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following the ups and downs of their
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Not because I wanted to.
I'd like more information about the difference between concolor fir and douglas fir, both standing and cut.
Does anyone know how to tell a douglas from a concolor while it's standing dead?
Is all douglas pink in the center and all concolor white in the center?
Around here concolor is called "soft" or "white" fir. No local I've run into knew what concolor was.
>>>Does anyone know how to tell a douglas from a concolor while it's standing dead?I've never heard of Concolor Fir, but I will say that Douglas Fir is my favorite burn wood by far (we don't have many hardwoods on the West coast, and those that we have (Birch, Alder) make lots of ash). As Piffin says, there's more to burning wood than the BTU factor. I seem to be able to burn endless logs of D. Fir before having the dump the ash, and the heat is very nice.Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.â€
Theres a lot of different ways of looking at the value of wood . Depends on which side of the football your on when its snapped.
Free wood is free . Close wood is out the back door or on the way home . Thats free hauling and time . Its hard to beat that. Theres more to stove types. Much more. Any dry hardwood is a good choice if its out the back door . Thats not true with stoves. Stoves are the deal breaker when looking for wood somtimes. Some folks have small boxes , inadequate air supplies, to small a door and cant burn what comes in free. However if you are a woodsman and have the timber the smallest stoves out there are some of the most efficient . Thats like a 9mm pistol. If you burn what some people would call trash then efficiency isnt an issue if the out put of heat is high enough.
Piffin and I have had somne good stove conversations .
Take a very efficient Scaninaivian stove with an S flow discharge where the box cradles the loads tightly with a very high heat out put per BYU rating , it comes up short for a high BTU model. They are too small for high heat outputs.
I can take a double barrel stove and add some air inlets for combustion and double or beat two of the stoves I mentioned with a 100 dollar stove because of the mass.
I can take somthing like the Buck stove with a large box and door and burn stumps . Splitting wood for such a stove is for the birds. No reason to do it or pay for precise wood like the first one I mentioned .
I can beat all the stoves out there with a high out put with a 100 dollar barrel stove and burn cheaper wood . Getting enough air to them is the problem. Once thats taken care of it will roll. I used to know the mass of one but Ive forgotten it . Its huge though. They take slabs which is the cheapest wood out there to burn if your buying it . I can buy bundles of hardwood slabs that are 4x4x8 ft for 13.00 dollars. Thats a cord. Buy all I want any working day of the year loaded on my trailer by them. 1 hour later Im back home with a cord of junk wood that needs to be cut to length. No splitting but theres gonna be a lot of ash burning all that bark.
I used that wood when I had a Warm Morning box stove that had a 36 inch box. Cut the slabs in thirds and Im ready to roll. Its a big mass heater that will roll. Only way to make a big heater roll though is fill her up.
Depends on what side of the football your on when its snapped, more than the type wood.
Tim
and is your doug fir heartwood always pink?
>>>and is your doug fir heartwood always pink?Kinda, though I'd say it's closer to orange. Sapwood is blond. I cut it to 16" lengths, stack it in the shed in rounds, and split with a maul when it's dry. It splits very nicely when dry. We'll burn five to six chords in a Winter.Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.â€
Can you get coal anypalce aroung SPfld/Chatham anymore??
We got ours just south of Iles park for $3/ ton in the '50's, closed and converted to an Eisner's in late 50's, abandoned steak and Shake now, etc......
Bet if you burned coal now there would be goodie two shoes neighbors complain about the smell?
Can you get coal anypalce aroung SPfld/Chatham anymore??
I'm not even sure where you would get it. I know it isn't something you'd find in the classifieds or at a local shop. You might have to get close to the source and buy a substantial amount.
Many of the mines have closed. The high sulfur content is hard on the industry. Years ago I had a look at a mine subsidence map of Springfield. Other than the state capital building, the whole town is pretty much in a subsidence area. At one time or other, someone has burrowed under just about every sq ft.
Bet if you burned coal now there would be goodie two shoes neighbors complain about the smell?
Shoot, I sometimes worry about burning wood. Until it gets up to temp, it smokes. I'm afraid some yahoo will complain. You would probably have to be out in the country to burn coal.
jt8
Edited 10/1/2008 10:21 am by JohnT8
Our last house in Kansas was surrounded by osage orange or hedge as the locals called it.
Incredibly hot fires! But the grain wasn't very straight so splitting it was a pain. Most of it wasn't that big in dia so splitting wasn't necessary.
Incredibly hot fires! But the grain wasn't very straight so splitting it was a pain. Most of it wasn't that big in dia so splitting wasn't necessary.
yeah, all the hedge I've burned was unsplit 10" diameter or less. Mostly pieces that were easily hauled from the site and cut to length later.
jt8
A thousand years ago, with wood as the only source for fuel, and with Europe's population far smaller than today, vast areas of what had been forested land, was bare of trees. They had all been whacked.
When the age of cathedral building began, in the 11th century, the large timbers for the roof structures of the buildings were brought down from nothern Europe and Scandinavia, where there were still trees of size enough. Early outsourcing.
To produce fuel wood for heat and cooking, the ancient art of coppicing was practiced. Maybe we ought to start that here, now.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
The "Whacking" of the forests in Scandinavia is was brought about the refinement of the crude masonry wood stoves to the point they actually became efficient heating and cooking sources.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
coppicing you gonna make me look that up, ain't you?
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In context it means growing fast growing woody brush/trees that you can prune for firewood instead of relying on full grown trees.
Again another part of the old world masonry heater culture. Those stoves are most efficient with a small fast , hot burn , the kind of burn you can get out of what most of us would call kindling in this country.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I did look it up, and found it was very similar to what I do here on my property. The swamp maples here will send up 3-6 sprouts from the root base when you cut the original tree down. So I have several of those clumps where I cur one of them every few years, rotating around and the root keeps making more.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yep, making use of "junk trees"
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
My theory is that the large root mass feeding smaller sprouts in a controlled sunshine are makes them grow faster too, for firewood.
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Same here with Black Locust, I can get a 4" dia. tree in a few years. Weeds on steroids.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj_oEx4-Mc4
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.