A month ago I had my painter rub Behr Scandinavian Tung oil on a houseful of pine 4-panel doors. His crew took the doors down, gave them two coats of oil, then put them in the unfinished (and uninsulated) bonus room over the garage. They draped plastic over the stacks of doors, and they sat there for 2 weeks before they re-hung them.
These doors are still tacky in places. The tung oil also seems to have raised the grain… lot of places are rough.
These are good painters, they want to make the doors right, but this no drying thing is slowing down progress. AC has been on in the house for a week.
I’ve used the same tung oil on pine doors and had no problems. Nice smooth, low luster finish. Real easy to apply.
Anybody know what’s happening, or even better, how to fix this?
If dogs run free, then what must be, Must be, and that is all. True love can make a blade of grass Stand up straight and tall. In harmony with the cosmic sea, True love needs no company, It can cure the soul, it can make it whole, If dogs run free.
Replies
Draping plastic over them sure didn't help. But the real Q is did they wipe off the excess oil?
I might try rubbing them down with rags lightly soaked in thinner to get the excess off.
I would also post this Q over at knots.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/
Edited 6/10/2008 9:42 pm ET by reinvent
They allegedly wiped between coats, and I was thinking the same on the plastic.I wiped one with mineral spirits last night... we'll see. If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
It deidn't cure. Can't explain why exactly, but the solution is to wipe it agressiverly with solvent, let it dry for a day, and reapply in thin coats with fresh oil.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Got a solvent recommendation? If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
I have had that happen before with Tung Oil. The only brand that has NEVER done that to me is Formby's.
It's funny, I've used this Behr's stuff a lot, and never had any hint of trouble. I'm not sure, but I've been told that Formby's has no actual tung oil... might be my next attempt<G> If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
Snort,
I heard that once too but have used it as a "brush on" for things like handrails, decorative panels and even doors and can get a nice hi-gloss wet finish with several coats that looks really good. Used it in my own house and still looks good after 8 years.
I know many true "wood finishers" don't care for Formbys but I have always had great results with it.
Mike
It's been so long long since I've Formby's, I can't remember how it worked... might have to try it inside a closet. If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
Is this Tung Oil or a Tung Oil FINISH which may or may not have any tung oil in it.
Pure tung oil is not suitable for use on doors or time. It is used on small pieces like jewerly boxes where it can be applied and rubbed in for months.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I have to check that out... the danged print on the can is so small that I need super powers to read it... maybe it's the UV inhibitior? If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
Tung Oil gets old fast when exposed to air, even in the bottle. My Dad used to drop marbles into the container to void all of the air and bring the oil to the lid of the bottle. And I remember that "old" Tung Oil, oil that has been exposed to air, either won't dry or dries very slowly.
Might try a little acetone and wipe it down.
Greg
I was wondering why the painter got a bunch of little cans instead of the great big one! This stuff probably doesn't have much tung oil in it... I've had a can for 8 years that I put on turnings, and it always dries in a couple of days, if not sooner. If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
I think you got an old batch of finish- it does have a shelf life. Get some fresh tung oil, wipe it on again, maybe with a Scotch Brite pad, and you should be OK. Do this in some place that is warm, with plenty of air circulation.
I actually prefer Waterlox. Its a wipe-on tung oil varnish. Depending on how many coats you put on, it can look like its barely there, or build to a nice finish. It makes a great finish for turnings. It can be left in a satin sheen, or be buffed to a pretty high gloss.
Good luck with the doors.
I'm a Waterlox fan, also... but I've had great luck with the Behr stuff... don't know why I didn't get Waterlox, d'oh If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
The Waterlox is getting difficult to find in NJ due to VOC laws.
I've never used the Behr stuff. I might have to try it.
I can get Waterlox for you... I'm smacking myself here for not thinking of using it... d'oh If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
I just drive an hour to Pa. to get some.
I guess I'm transporting contraband over state borders, but I haven't been caught yet.
My experience with tung oil is very limited but I thought there was a shelf life with the stuff.
Don't know if you had fresh oil to start with or if it was some old finish.
I've had old shellac do that to me so in that case I took denatured alcohol and rubbed it down with 0000 steal wool. I'd assume you could do the same with naptha or acetone, something that will cut through the tung oil.
That would get the old sticky stuff off but obviously now you have to do something different so as not to repeat the same thing.
Maybe a new product? new can of oil? not real sure, just spit balling here.
Doug
I'm thinking 3-in-1 oil this time<G> If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
Anybody had any trouble with oil raising the grain, or making a roughish finish? This is a new one on me, too. If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
The raised grain is a puzzle to me.I think the Formby's is a catalysed finish with some mix of poly and linseed comnbination
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
My preferred oil finish isn't straight tung oil, but grain raise is normal. I flood 2 coats, let it dry. No wiping. Grain's always raised a little, always some dried oil on the surface. Then wet sand with the same finish.
Depending on number (and grit) of wet-sandings, it can pass as a lacquer finish but won't damage like one. PAHS works. Bury it.
The Baer product is not pure Tung oil. It has a bit more varnish than Watco and most definitely has metallic driers added.
So, I know you didn't respond to me, but I have had luck adding more oil, sanding, drying some, then rubbing. Haven't tried that here, 'cause it's the painter's thing... doors I messed with were inside closets... this staying tacky thing has got me flummoxed... and oil raising grain is something I've not seen before... but the hackles are up on these doors If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
It's all going for common knowledge.
Grain raise strikes me as normal, nothing to be concerned about. I presumed mine had to do with thinners. Even delayed drying really isn't an issue if you're wet-sanding. I'm sure you know there're differences in grain raise due to both handling and wood species.
I only rub out the last coat. The slurry of wet-sanding makes a wonderful filler.
Likely nothing much similar to what your painter did. The last one I had working for me didn't have much idea how wood reacted. PAHS works. Bury it.
I don't get the raised grain thing either... maybe they scared it? If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
I wonder if the "raised grain" is just a patch or two they missed when sanding before applying the tung oil?
Billy
They say no, but I'm not ruling it out<G> If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
I wonder if maybe that the doors were stored over the garage, moisture from the garage slab (or whereever) wasn't coming up through the floor and being trapped by the plastic draped over the doors. That would have, perhaps, raised the grain, though I would think that the oil would have penetrated enough to prevent that--oil itself should not raise grain--that's why people use oil-based stuff instead of water-based! (I'm not a big fan of tung oil in the first place--I prefer Watco.)
As someone else said, you could ask at Knots, but I was also wondering if you couldn't get some Japan dryer (or cobalt siccative) from a paint store and apply that along with the solvent you wipes the doors with. That would help cure any remaining oil. As far as the raised grain, probably the only solution is to sand! Personally, I would wipe the doors down with solvent and dryer first, to harden them and remove excess gooey oil before sanding, or your paper will clog up and you'll have a gooey mess. Sterated paper may clog less and is fine if you aren't going to ever top coat the doors with anything.
I may check that cobalt stuff out. I rubbed one with acetone tonight... it helped some, but not all the way. If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
We used the cobalt siccative in art class to make medium to mix with our opil paints, so may have to go to art supply place to get it, but metallic or Japan dryers I think are available at paint stores.
I know I can Japan driers at the art stores... we're a very cultural town<G> If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
I've had great luck with that product. The plastic was the culprit. Just do another application and everything will be hunky-dory. No plastic or drop cloth needed.
You don't need a solvent, just another application of the material.
Edited 6/11/2008 8:08 am ET by TaunTonMacoute
"You don't need a solvent, just another application of the material"I am thinking similar - but with a fan moving oxygen over the doors for a few days first
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I thought the same thing at first. Tried it, but the places that were tacky stayed tacky... arrrrg If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.
Two problems that I see, both connected to the fact that the oil cures by reaction with oxygen.
By doing two coats immediately, he made it harder for the O2 to make connection with the first coat of oil. He should have waited for the first coat to fully cure before doing the second coat.
By covering the doors with plastic, he made it harder for the O2 to get to the top coat too.
Understanding how and what makes a product work is critical to making it happen right.
'course you can goo too far over that. One of my painter/floor guys is a chemist who doesn't like the corporate world. He tends to almost over-analyse the details, but he does great work
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I've done it by their book, first 30 min, 2 nd coat 15 and wipe... no probs.Not exactly sure how it was precisely done... will your chemist travel? If dogs run free, then what must be,
Must be, and that is all.
True love can make a blade of grass
Stand up straight and tall.
In harmony with the cosmic sea,
True love needs no company,
It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,
If dogs run free.