I hate buy’n something i have no clue about… I’m at the landscape stage of my project and need some trees to front 200ft of iron fence…
so kinda did some research and look’n around and THINK i want cleveland pears… look’n at 12ft trees that measure 3-4″ 2ft up the trunk… the landscape place wanted $250 each… ouch… i need a min of 12… so i check around a guy with a tree farm 70 miles away… quoted me $80 per tree… got to looking on the net if i drive 4hrs i can get bigger trees for $35-$40 each… plus that have alot of small plants I need… to save $500 will cost $60 more in fuel and a full day… but i can go on sat. or sunday (not like i don’t work those days also) but… guess i could load the kids and make it a roadtrip….
I know zero about trees and landscape’n… last trees i planted came from where they were wide’n the road and they just planted them a year before… free for haul’n…
just need more time in a day
P
Replies
If you wanted smaller trees, I would recommend the Arbor Day Society web page. They have good prices.
I looked online... alot of smaller trees come bare rooted... which i don't know alot about... I buy tons of bulbs end of season... and just put em out there.... always cool to see what pops up and when...
Coupla toughts-
12-14' in a standard shade tree- Maple, etc is generally only 2-2.5" in caliper (trunk diameter 6" above ground).
The larger the caliper, the larger the root ball. 2/2.5" caliper would have a ball 24-28" diam, weighing ~ 300-450#. 3.5/4" would be 38-42" @ 1300- 1800#
Cleveland select pear is pretty narrow, unless thats what you want. Other than that, it's a nice ornamental.
It was thought they were sterile, but they do cross pollinate with other Callery pear varieties and are starting to exhibit some reseeding, to the point of becoming invasive in some areas.
Don't know your location, but make sure it's a fit for your climate, soil, exposure, etc.
There's a lot of guys out there with a lot of trees they don't want to plow under, so you can pick and choose, and almost name your price.
Good luck.
Steve
thanks i did read where they are a problem in some areas... but i understood they were better than a "bradford" i want something that flowers... "crape mertal" SP? are everywhere here... and get as big as trees... the guy told me 32" root ball and about 400lbs? said he moves them with a dingo... i have a bobcat and a 30" hyd auger for it... so i should be able to get em in the ground...
full sun.... mississippi river delta dirt.... memphis TN ... from what i read it should grow 20" a year here?
thanks... for the info... I might contact the guy that is closer and see if he'll do better on the price... I hate to drive 500mile round trip... 250 tow'n 5000lbs of trees back...
thanks for the info... i don't guess it'd be a big sales year for the tree growers
p
Well, with trees, the easy thing is to set them on a two-axle tralier (dozen winds up being some weight as well as area). One thing, though, if they are leafed out, you want to wrap them in landscape fabric before taking them on a long highway drive, as that will dehydrate the trees as the air passes over the leaves.
Iif you have a quiet spot on site, like along a fence line, that will both remain undisturbed and will still have equipment/vehicle access, getting the trees now can get them acclimatized to where they will be. Note that you ought ask the source nursery what they are doing for water and/or fertilizer if you are going to store them in as-bought condition. Generally, those folks are going to be helpfull, and they've been caring for the product you are buying.
Now, probably not a good idea to get peat moss, planting mix, or the like from the distant location--not unless it's half or more cheaper. Four hours is a long way to drive 40-90# bags of stuff you only need the day of planting.
For shrubbery and the like, make a second trip, seperate from the trees. First ,the trees will do better on your site waiting for the correct day. Second, the weight sneaks up on you quick after 10-12 trees, and 4 hours is a long time to drive with a trailer and a near-max load on the ride driving you home.
Be sure to get your irrigation piping in first.
Be sure to get your irrigation piping in first.
Have a plan for when the irrigation piping is in the wrong place.
For most planting, it's pretty simple. Make a hole twice as big, and twice as deep as the root ball/bucket it is in. You generally need a planting mix, peat; peat & manure; loam & feed mix, or some combination of those (ask local nursery types). Trees over 4' tall generally ought to be staked. Use old rubber hose, or burlap to cushion where the wires touch the tree, and leave some slack (or be preparred to come back and check on things every week or so). Leftover dirt it mounded up to form a tree well around the trees. Done. Repeat as needed.
Check online for your locality, your city may have diagrams showing all of this (often with recommendations for feed, bedding, etc.) as part of the landscape ordinance info. or in the planning & development info, and online to boot.
Any of that help any? Was a dogsbody for a landscape company back in my impressionable youth, everything from preliminary design to irrigation plumbing to install--btdt, t-shirt wore out a long time ago.
cool... many thanks.... they told me 30-32" root ball... i have a 30" auger for the bobcat post hole digger...
I have 4 stables within 5 blocks of me... so horse chit and stable sweepings i can get... last time i sure had alot of clover sprout up from the horse poo....:)
I'm shooting for buy'n em closer... but if i make the long trip... i thought i'd lay em over and tarp em.. or should i wrap each tree for travel?
if not leafed ( guess'n they shouldn't be if i get em this next week) do i need to wrap em?
i have always enjoyed plant'n anything... i don't know anything about it but ... i like it...
thanks for the info and advice...
p
(clearing throat slightly) Please tell me what state you are in (your profile is empty), how tall you want them to get, what kind of width & depth are you working with, if you have any colour preferences(bloom, fruit &/or fall colour), feed wildlife or humans?, what is the sun exposure, soil type(clay, sand etc), and moisture level of soil (dry, wet, spring/fall flooding etc).I can probably come up w/OHHHH at least 20 types of trees & shrubs you can plant<G>. I do so enjoy spending other people's money.Bare root isn't that bad to work with. I always unwrap them as soon as I get them home & soak them in a bucket for a day or 2 in a shady spot before I plant them.
It may look like spring, it may feel like spring, it may even SMELL like spring but trust me, it ain't spring. sigh
memphis tn... so very little chance of ice.. mississippi delta soil... i'm in sight of the mississippi river... i can dig as deep as i need :) i have an area between my fence and the street thats about 20ft wide and 200ft long.... my fence is 20ft back from the street... behind the fence i have 5 lots which i 'll build on someday or next year... the houses will be 15ft back from the fence... i don't care what color ... or how tall... there is nothing there now and anything i do will be better... full sun no flooding well drained... but the soil does seem to hold moisture... lots of worms
thanks
P
Don't know a whole lot, but I do know , watch the horse manure. It really should be composted first. That kills the weed seeds and also lowers the potentcy so you don't burn the roots.
Raw fresh manure can kill many plants.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Oooooo 20ft wide x 200ft long...just WAIT 'til I get home! I'll give you Latin & common names and a brief description.
(muttering to self) fur sure Nyssa sylvatica and Lindera benzoin, one or 2 oaks, red bud, viburnum, ooo pawpaw should work, summer bloom have to think about that, yes witchhazel for October, hmmmmmmm
It may look like spring, it may feel like spring, it may even SMELL like spring but trust me, it ain't spring. sigh
I've got a row of Bradford pears in front of my house that I planted 20 years ago.
Beautiful white blossoms in the spring, nice deep green leaves all summer.
Two things to consider, one, the crown needs to be thinned often. If you don't, it catches the wind and major branches will rip themselves off the tree.
Two, the roots like to travel just under the surface. Lots of lifted / busted sidewalks around here because of these trees. I had to replace mine two years ago. buic
the cleveland pear... which is just about the same as the bradford... I'm told is a little stronger holding up to wind & ice... (so i'm told) but pretty much the same look...
I'm learn'n alot from the breaktime folks.. i always know where to go for info... real world..
thanks
P
Oops forgot to add that the Bradford/Cleveland pear type trees can be susceptible to ice/wind breakage, so they aren't really high on my "Must plant in my yard NOW" list.
It may look like spring, it may feel like spring, it may even SMELL like spring but trust me, it ain't spring. sigh
last time i sure had alot of clover sprout up from the horse poo....:)
This is where asking local nursery types or ag agents can be helpful. Loam plus manure usually goes in the bottom of the hole (which is a bit anerobic to prevent sprouting) to give a porous area for root growth that also gets the top of the ball up to level with the surrounding ground (a good thing, as plantlust or uncdunc might point out, if they have not yet)
I'm shooting for buy'n em closer... but if i make the long trip... i thought i'd lay em over and tarp em.. or should i wrap each tree for travel?
Well, we always had lanscape fabric handy in the yard, so that's what we used. There's some debate among the greenthumb types about not using a tarp, per se, as that may be too much protection for the plants while making highway drives. We tended to wrap what was convenient, around 4 to six trees at a time, rather than the whole bunch in a go.
If I ever get to needing trees, or tree-form shrubs, I know of a couple of places about 1 hours' drive away that have very attractive wholesale prices, and I'd easily accept that level of commitment vice paying 5-6x for local convenience. Now, hiring a stout back or two to make the holes would not bother me at all--but, that's a different sort of equation.
Definitely check for local recommendations, like muni landscape ordinances, ag extension services and the like. I have a bias to where I want things that bloom to bloom at different times. I'm not opposed to creating landscaping that blooms at 4,5, or ever 6-8 different times of the year, so long as some of it does bloom. Otherwise, I tend to select for color and/or leaf shape and/or effect. But, I also have more than a small amount of background in that sort of landscape design, too.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
where are you located?
The price sounds about right if your buying from a retailer. I just last fall put a fruit tree orchard on my farm. 150 trees almost every type of fruit that grows in North Carolina. I also know nothing about trees but have a good friend that has taken to the orchard and seems to know what she is doing. I'm hedging my bets, this is the first recession in my fourty years of building that was called a recession as it was happening all the rest only owned up to it after the fact so I guess if it isnt a depression its at least a big pot hole in the economy and I want something to fall back on. I went to a wholesaler and had to travel a few hours also. I have a farm Id # which allows me to buy wholesale and I was paying between 15 and 25 dollars each, thats with only 1% tax added. Trees like to grow good luck
Try posting your question on Tautons Fine Gardening forum. Over The Fence is there breaktime version. You can find it by clicking on All Forums above.
That pear tree is an excellent specimen tree. Nice shape, spring flowers and good fall color.
They'll hold their fruit (it's about the size of a small ball bearing) during the winter so you'll see birds and squirrels eating them.
As mentioned, ice storms can damage them because of their branch structure. They don't really have a main leader.
Personally I don't like to over dig the depth because they can settle and be too deep. It's better to have them up a little and mulch to them. You don't want the bark buried as it will rot and the tree will die.
If there is a metal cage around the ball, remove it. They can stop the spread of the roots before they rust away.
1. The pricing sounds okay in my experience for trees that size.
2. To echo Plantlust's recommend, pick a different tree. Fast growth often equals weak wood, and Cleveland pears are trash trees IMO. There are many more suitable trees. Click the link below for a PDF from UT on good trees for your area.
http://www.utextension.utk.edu/publications/spfiles/SP515.pdf
I personally like:
- honeylocust (seedless/thornless types)
- tulip poplar aka tulip tree (liriodendron tulipifera)
- redbud,
- catalpa,
- pretty much any oak or maple tree ('cept silver & Norway maples).
Might look at the "Autumn Blaze" or "Autumn Fantasy" red maples - they're crosses w/ silver maple that are supposed to grow fast, have great fall color and don't drop branches every time there's a storm.
3. Plant smaller trees. They'll experience less transplant shock and in a few years will have caught up & passed a larger transplant.
4. Consider planting a mix of trees. Planting all of one species looks cool, but leaves you susceptible to disease and weather.
5. Shade trees are good.
Good luck!
Jason
Ponytl
In more-or-less alpha order:
Common pawpaw/custard apple (Asimina triloba) - 15-20' high and wide can get larger in more favorable conditions, multi-stemmed shrub or small tree. Zone 5-8 (don't worry, I'm thinking you are at least a 6). Note this is an UNDERSTORY tree, ultra-violet light will kill very young trees (make sure you put in a couple of big shade trees in addition to this one or make sure the pawpaw you get is at least 3ft tall).
Has really cool dark purplish upside-down tulip shaped flowers in May before the leaves come out. Trees do not bloom until they are 4ft tall. Up to footlong leaves are a dark lustrous green turning to a nice yellow in the fall. The overall appearance is very tropical because the leaves droop. Now for the most important, the fruit. One of my favorites EXTREMELY hard to find, normally. I was able to purchase 5lbs from Chris at Integration Acres to taste before planting my pawpaw. Looks like a miniature mango, yellowish/orange with fantastic scent and taste, creamy bananay & fruity. Some people are sensitive and swear it has a bad after taste. Very high protein count, for a fruit and when it's over-ripe you can't use it as you would a banana, it is BAD. Raccoons, squirrels, foxen & humans like the fruit.
Serviceberry/Juneberry (Amelanchier spp) - Lots of species & cultivars for this one. Try looking for 'Regent' (small 4-6ft shrub, superb berries), 'Forest Prince' (small tree w/excellent red/orange fall colour) and 'Cole's Select' (another small tree w/great spring flower show & superb red fall colour). All of them have the following characteristics, showy creamy white flowers around April, very tasty purplish fruit (if you can beat back the birds) and great fall colour ranging from yellow to orange to red.
More to follow...
Time to shoot and eat the bloody ground hog/woodchuck already.
I've also heard that clevelands are more wind tolerant than bradfords, though I question that. Seems to me that when they reach that perfect shape and height, they invariably grow so dense that the wind rips into them. You see them mangled every summer.
For me, the size of the tree matters. I grew up planting small (cheap) trees for my mom and really dislike it. They take forever to get to a decent size and a fair amount of them have trouble or die. Granted, she had alot of ground to cover and my work was free.
Personally, I would buy a big as you can afford. I just bought and planted four trees in my front yard. This spring I am finishing the landscaping.
I did fertalize the trees this fall. I just bought some dry granular tree food and buried it per recomendation. I plan on doing this spring and fall for a few years to push them a bit.
yeah for me "size matters" <g> i want instant gradification... plus this is for my "for sale" condo units... so if something looks "mature... stable" i think it matters... since I'm going to be hitting the top of this booming market :) i need all the help i can get
thanks
P
On the two bigger trees I went directly to the grower. He had a tree spade. So the trees went right in the holes he dug with the spade. I think they were 4" trees.
Anyway, they look happy and will fill out the yard nicely.
They are Boxelders. They are a new variety that is seedless. Sensation is the name.
Nice shape and fall color.
A few comments regarding tree planting that may conflict with other advice given...
The hole should be two to three times the width of the ball, but no deeper than the plant grew in the nursery. It's better to plant slightly high.
The backfill should not be amended unless the soil is very poor. If the soil in the hole is much better than the surrounding soil, the roots will stay in it, not spreading out as they should. Known as the "washtub effect".
Trees should not be staked unless there is a very high probability of being blown over. The natural swaying in the wind causes the tree to establish strong anchoring roots. A tightly staked tree does not. As another poster noted, leave slack allowing some sway with the wind (if you must stake).
Wrapping the trunk may be a good idea and unlikely to hurt.
thanks... the last one i put in i made some "shock" cords... use'n a piece of inner tube in the line that staked it...... only left it for a few weeks...
a 30" ball would require a 60" round hole?
thanks
P
You'll be fine with that. Double is the standard acceptable size but I've seen some respected nurserymen and arborists mention the triple as mo' better...
Mac- I agree completely with your points. Don't pile the mulch against the trunk, either. No mulch volcanos!Steve
"Don't pile the mulch against the trunk, either. No mulch volcanos!"VERY important point, Steve...