What do you guys think of trim (casing , baseboard etc.) made out of MDR or do you prefer wood ? it will be painted white. also is there a rule of thumb in regards to the proportinate size to use , relly like alot of trim and the bigger the better but dont want to over kill. thank you
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EZ,
I'm assuming you're referring to MDF (medium density fiberboard).
I think it's a great choice for trim: it's straight, sharp-cornered, completely uniform, and pre-primed. Unless it's going in a semi-wet location (like baseboards next to a tub, or something), I recommend it to my clients over wood.
As far as proportions go, the general guidelines I use are as follows: 1x5 for window and door casings, 1/2x8 (or maybe 1/2x6) for baseboards, and 1/2x3/4 or 1/2x1 for base shoes. You can also use 1x for bases, but it will make the transition at the door casings more difficult unless you opt for plinth blocks.
Head casings are a special case, since that's the location where the architectural style really comes through. If you're doing a Craftsman-type theme, I like to use a 5/4x6 shouldered head casing with 10-degree angles on the sides. Some houses use backband; in that case, stick with 1x5 all around. If you're going with a classical look, use a 1x6 head casing with a fillet below and a cap above.
There are literally hundreds of different combinations you can come up with. The above are just some of the most common I do. I’m attaching a picture of a “classical” head casing (featured on a bookcase I made), as well as a variation of the Craftsman, which I call a “cross-casing” (sorry this picture is sideways and huge, but it's a cool casing style nonetheless - the picture's from an open house).
If you have any specific style in mind, I might be able to post some more pictures.
Ragnar
The bookcase looks great!, you almost have me believing in MDF
CAG,
I need to clarify this: I built the bookcase entirely out of wood and plywood. Like I've said before, I don't like MDF for anything structural. MDF sags too much and is too heavy for that application, in my opinion.
I use MDF for applied trim without hesitation. For example, the ceiling crowns are MDF, as are the box post newels (4x4 structural centers).
Thanks for the compliments. The clients let me design the bookcase exactly the way I wanted, and I was really pleased with the results.
Ragnar
thank you for the input !!!!!!!!!!! your pictures look great i hope our trim work looks as good.
Really nice work on the book cases.
You make me want to like painted wood. Strip one house and you never want to paint wood again.
Tell me about the ceiling. It looks like a rosewood or some dark reddish wood. Really a fine effect with the white woodwork and the floor and ceiling in contrast. Or is that paint and a cruddy monitor on my end?
Booch,
Thanks for the compliments!
I think we've already had a discussion about painted vs. stained wood. I really love stained wood, and I try to get my clients to at least consider it whenever I'm putting up new trim. However, it sounds like you know what a major pain it is to strip it once it is, in fact, painted!
The ceiling is just plain old T&G cedar, nothing exotic. It was there when I started this job, and we just left it in place. The clients had an interior decorator help them pick out colors, and I think she did a good job in making everything work together nicely.
I'm posting a "before" picture, so you can see more of the cedar ceiling, and also the crappy stairway I started with.
Ragnar
Ragnar,
Your work on the bookcase and stairs was beautiful before I saw the before pic, now it looks even better, Looks like you added alot to the room.
I have a quick question regarding your door cross-casing: I've got a 1909 craftsman bungalow with two styles of door casings (both original). In the "public" areas of the house (stay with me here - go visual - because I have no idea what the correct vocabulary is) the top horizontal piece is a wee bit longer than the vertical sides and angle up and out from the sides at about 7.5 degrees (think trapizoid). but in the "priviate" parts of the house the horisontal peice is a wee bit longer but the sides are cut square. Is this a regional thing - or maybe a one builder thing? Just curious?
Coolcall,
Both styles that you've described are very typical for Craftsman houses. I'm not always sure that my nomenclature is 100% correct either, but I refer to both of them as "shouldered" casings (meaning that the top piece, or the head casing, hangs over the side casings a bit). 7.5 to 15 degrees on the head casing are what I see most often.
It's also pretty typical to have one style in the formal rooms and another in the bedrooms, etc
For a 1909 house, the builders must have been on the cutting edge, stylistically speaking. That's really the early part of the Craftsman movement. What part of the country are you in?
Ragnar
"For a 1909 house, the builders must have been on the cutting edge, stylistically speaking. That's really the early part of the Craftsman movement."
Actually that was about the peak of the Craftsman movement. Stickly's magzine "The Craftsman" was published from 1901 to 1916. And Popular Mechanics published a series of craftsman furniture plans from 1910-12.
A lot of the furniture, pottery and the like was going down hill by 1920.
But Craftsman style home continued through the 20's.
Bill,
Thanks for the info. I had forgotten that Stickley started publishing that early. However, craftsman-style building didn't really seem to pick up until about 1910, based on what work I've seen in Seattle, at least. The houses in my part of town from 1901 to 1908 are of a transitional style: they are starting to adopt some of the "craftsman" characteristics (for example, I start seeing 4-panel craftsman doors as early as 1907, but they are still well outnumbered by the old 5-panel standard), but in many other ways hang onto Victorian / "traditional" features (tall windows, hip roofs, "traditional" millwork styles). There are a ton of Craftsman houses from 1911 to 1913, and then building seems to have tapered off for a while. I'm assuming there must have been some sort of economic recession linked to WWI.
Also as you said, Craftsman houses continued to be built through the mid-20s, but out here they appeared a little bit different. In general, they were being influenced by the colonial revival.
Whereabouts do you work and live?
Ragnar
ragnar,
thanks,
I've seen a couple of other house in the area that have the same casing style, and because of age and other detail i'm not sure if they weren't just all the same builder. Logan, UT is current my corner of the world and is still small enough to recognize old houses that most likely were from the same builder/designer. My house is the very classic craftsman bungalow - pocket doors, built in buffet, built in book shelfs either side of the fire place, columns etc. I'm deep into a slow, DIY- as money allows restore, it pains me to think of some of the stuff the POs did as "improvements". I just hope they moved back to a doublewide with satalite dish.
Beautiful work! What did you use for joinery on the bookcase and newels - biscuits?
Regards,
Tim
Tim,
Thanks for the compliments!
I just used the old-fashioned approach of dados on the shelves; they were glued in place and tacked with some brads. The back panel was let in via rabbets, and stapled from the back. Most shelf components are 3/4" birch ply. I apply a fir nosing to exposed edges, and the face frame is solid fir.
You might be able to see (barely) in the photo that the two outboard shelves on the bottom half are adjustable. Again, this was employing the old-fashioned technique of dadoed standards and a removable/adjustable horizontal cleat to support the loose shelf on either side.
The box post around the newel was fabricated using four pieces, two of which were simple rectangles in cross-section, and two of which were rabbeted. I cut the cross-sections at home in my shop. On site, I cut the pieces to length and assembled it using adhesive and brads. I also face-nailed the box post through shims and into structural elements near the top and bottom.
In the past, I've also assembled box posts using plain rectangular pieces, and assembling with adhesive and nails. However, I've found that the rabbets really assist in assembly and lead to a better product.
Ragnar
ez,
MDF is a good pick for painted trim/doorpanels and vertical joined casework (NOT horizontal/structural) as ragnar said). MDF takes a routed profile well and is reasonable on the pocket book. MDF though will sometimes 'dimple' when nailed or screwed (requires countersink, sanding and spackle), will bend to conform a curved wall (where straightness may be desired), does not always glue well (due to differential porosity of face to edge) and requires good prepriming technique (oil based) to avoid glue bleed through. MDF is a bit harder to work by one person as it is usually available only in 4x8 sheets and is quite heavy. However, similar trim size substitutes can be found in lumberyards, preprimed and in various thicknesses. If you prefer a wood instead try paint grade Poplar, Alder, or Pine. These species are available in boards of typical trim sizes and are a bit easier to manage on the job or in the shop. I am unsure where you live so you may want to compare local costs/availability of materials along with your space and shop capacities. As to proportionate size, try to pick an architectural truism and emulate same in your trim work. For example, if you are duplicating Victorian trim, then in general lots of detail (moulding profiles) and size applies to casing, baseboard, etc. On the other hand, if you are going for an Arts and Crafts look then the trimwork is almost austere and simple in an oriental sort of way but proportion is very important. Good luck in your decisions. I trust you will do well.
sawick
sawick