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Thinking about a new or newer vehicle. What do you drive and why. Pickup or van, 1/2 or 3/4 ton, gas or diesel, foreign or domestic,advantages and disadvantages of each, especially as it relates to building. Also, has anyone used the trailers with the dump bodies on them? Any comments would be appreciated.
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Was driving an imported mini-pickup, cramming all of my stuff in back and on top. But since we began doing odd jobs (that is, odd large jobs, not odd small jobs), in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan (e.g., cabins and bridges), have gone to four-wheel drive. Switched to full-size, American, four-wheel drive. Seemed to be less expensive, both in terms of inital cost and insuance, than a van. Went to a rather cool place that makes aluminum caps to order for contractors (you specify windows, opening, drawers, ladder racks, holders and so on), and was able to outfit it at a very good cost. Now that I've driven full size, with my tools, and now that I have to deliver a lot of my own lumber, I'd never go back to a mini-pickup, and I don't know that I could operate my business with a van. Hope this helps somewhat.
*J. callahan, this is a good question.I'm a van man, but there are times that I wished for a pickup.I like the vans, because I can put a 12' inside (16' in the largest sizes), and close the doors. I've dangled 18' out the back, and carried 36' gutters on top, lashed to a 20' aluminum walk plank.I've shoveled hundreds of yards of sand into the back, and have moved countless friends and relatives to their new abodes.The payload on a van is much larger, when measure in cubic terms. I don't like to crawl on my knees, so therefore I hate PU's with a cap.As much as I love a van, I'm thinking about buying a diesel PU to haul my backhoe. Then again, I might just sell the hoe!Blue
*I use a Ford f-150,6 cylinder, manual transmission.It is a '94 and I am kind of planning to get a new one next month after I get back from spring vacation. It still runs great and only has 39,000 miles on it but a roofers truck picks up a good deal of scratches and I am looking for a new shiny one.I will get another F-150 because the dealers practically GIVE the base models away and mine has been very dependable.I mostly carry ladders and tools, nothing really heavy so the 6-cyl. works fine for me. I will put heavier springs in this one for the few occasions I need to carry 9 square for about 20 minutes.(I usually have most materials delivered,delivery is a bargain -roof-top delivery)Ladder rack,no cap.I would like a cap with the side opening tool bays but I figure the laddder rack and the sheet metal brake would interfere with opening the side bay. Anyway this set-up works for me and gives me good looks,full size transport,dependable operation and a very affordable price.If your work is entirely "retail" as mine is,you definetly need a better truck than the beaters that framing subs can get away with.Nothing personal,guys, it is just that a lot of customers(retail) feel funny handing over a deposit check to guys driving rust buckets.Your customer is the G.C. and he probably doesn't care what you drive as long as you do good work. Good Luck,Stephen
*Very astute observation Stephen, especially conderning your image. Image in retail is half the battle! Your roofing rig would suit me fine too. My concern is keeping the tools out of the snow. I've recently started using a job box, and that makes the open PU that much easier to employ. I'd opt for a side box, and just cove the generators, and the compressors.What kind of compressor do you use?Blue
*driving a van since 1976 and from time to time had to use a P/U. Every time I do it rains and I want my van back.
*Run your numbers. I think you will find that the initial and ongoing operating costs for a gas engine in a new vehicle will be much lower than for a diesel. Wasn't always so but the new manufacturing technology has made it so now.I did that and ended up with a F250 V10. Real world fuel enconomy and power are right with the diesel and a LOT cheaper to buy and maintain.Now a van would be nice when it rains, or extra security....Guess I'll have to persuade the wife to get avan that I can use as my second truck.Real estate folks say a new vehicle is part of the sales pitch that people like to buy from a successful person. Maybe there is something there that spills over into construction.
*Just replaced my mazda and cap with a 4 door F150 short bed with cap. Lift up windows keep me off my knees. Customize the ladder rack with some classy carpenterly looking wood stuff. The back seat is ever so roomy, and I can buckle up my favorite tools.They are giving the things away, if you don't consider the payments. Shop online, you can even get a deal on the interest.Short bed's plenty big for me, and I can back my boat down the ramp without jacknifing.
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I do a lot of different work, including construction, remodeling, welding and fabrication, structural steel, storm and fire damage control and loss prevention. Every project is different, often disciplines are intertwined. No one vehicle really suits all this, so I have several trailers that I mix and match.
A crossbed and saddle boxes in the pickup contain most comman hand tools, a circular saw, one chain saw, basic stuff that you seem to need either often, or really bad once in a while. A job box is packed with blue tarps and canvas salvage covers, ratchet straps, etc.
I have three trailers I pull, an enclosed utility body, a cargo trailer, and an 18' flatbed trailer (with 8klb winch on the front for loading, it's handy).
A virtual mechanical/welding-machining/carpentry shop is packed into the 90" wide, 9' long, walk-in utility trailer. Miller Big40D and wirefeeder takes a bit of the interior floor space, along with a drill press, oxy-ac, and big tools like jobsite table saw, etc.
It's not unusual to set my helper up at a jobsite, dropping off the tool trailer, and then pick up the utility trailer or flatbed trailer with materials. On missions that are a fair distance from the Center, we will take a second rig, or have even loaded the utility trailer on the empty flatbed, and obtained materials locally using the flatbed. Our state allows pulling double trailers behind a light truck, and I have a pintle hook on the back of the utility trailer, and have pulled the flatbed (empty) behind it. Works better on the interstate than in the big city.
Security is a concern, I have a multi-layer system. First, the tool trailer will not stay anywhere overnight other than in it's doghouse (drive-thru, long enuf for truck and trailer). It has a pintle hitch, and we made a lockplate that clamps over the pintle, with a sheilded padlock. It would take some time with a torch to defeat it. It has a 8-zone alarm system, running off of battery power. Each compartment is on a separate zone, so I can only disable the compartments I need to accesss via a switchpanel. It can also be set to "chirp" if a disabled-circuit compartment is opened. So you know if somebody on the jobsite is borrowing something.
I really want to add another trailer, along the lines of a 30' tri-axle, for hauling big beams, structural steel, or a tractor-loader plus materials.
I pull all of this with a chevy 454'd dually, 4x4, five speed. Next one is gonna be a Dodge, club, cummins...I just like big toys, plus with my trailer "system", really need the reliability and safety of a heavy tow vehicle.
mr. greenjeans
Service Foundation, Inc.
*Fellow Americans; I use a full size long bed 1969 GMC pickup truck, granny gear 4 speed with a gang box, crossover toolbox and I drag a 5 foot by 6 foot by 9 foot toolbox trailer behind, with this rig I can haul all of my hand tools and some of my staitionary stuff. As for the image part of the equation, I work mostly for millionaires, and have had one tell me that the reason he keeps useing me is that he dosent feel like I am robbing him and buying a new truck with the proceeds on each job. I know a lot of carpenters that drive 25,000 dollar pickup trucks and dont own a thousand dollars worth of tools of their trade. I probally deliver 35 or 40 thousand dollars of tools to thejob every day. Economy is a strange thing, I use a ton of gasand oil but there is no payment each month and the thing dosent have to be fed if I take time off.Old simple and reliable, kind of like me, or two out of three isnt too bad is it?brisketbean
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I have to vote with a full size pickup. I,ve been using an explorere for the past 2 years (so the whole family can go)& can't wait to get rid of it & get another truck. Even with a trailer it's not as convieneint. besides, my wife won't want to take the work truck.
*Worked out of a Scirocco in the early days...Trucks now but loved my Toyota van.J
*It doesn't matter what I drive, the first thing tha happens is the radio sputters out!Haven't had one for twenty years or so. I keep saying I'm gonnabuy a new radio, then I think, naw, I'll jus buy a new truck. In themeantime, I sing to myself!Turning them into junk as fast as I get them,Blue
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Just saw a nice setup, a 1 ton dually 4x4 with utility body. In the center section of the standard utility body is a dump bed. The dump bed moves, while the utility boxes remain stationary.
Looks good for the odd load of sand, mulch, or demo debris, plus you have tool storage, and can use the bed for other tools and stuff when not used as light dump.
gj
Service Foundation, Inc.
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Well to get into the spirit of this Forum I guess I'd better pass a message to a Responder instead of the Original Poster.
Mr. Greenjeans: I too was going to buy the Dodge. But when I ran the numbers a year ago they kept coming up F250 Superduty Supercab with V10. Been running it since last July and am quite satisfied. Lots of folks call it the "FORGE" because Ford took a great Dodge design updated it and did a better job of quality production. So, it is your money and your decision, but I would feel guilty if I didn't at least suggest looking at the newer design.
By the way how has the Miller served you? Would you do it differently now?
*Blue,since all of my work is outside, and all of my materials are meant to get rained on, keeping stuff dry is not a high priority for my truck.I do park indoors overnight to keep the next days osb dry though.I have a lockbox on the truck,with a low profile, that I waterproofed with seamless rubber to keep my airguns and personal tools safe and dry.When I work alone I use a 3/4 horse Rol-air compressor with a single sausage tank. this gives me plenty of air, but it couldn't keep up with a full crew.It is small and portable enough to sit in the cab if needed but usually it travels in the bed under a seamless rubber cover I made for it.( when we do big jobs the crew hand nails EVERYTHING. 6 guys can get a lot done fast)Now regaurding the guys who think new trucks are a waste.Remember how many people judge a book by its cover.A lot of people will judge you by the vehicle you drive and the clothes and haircut you wear on the job.(You never have a 2nd chance to make a 1st impression)I consider truck payments to be similar to an advertising budget(another necessity in the retail game)I don't spend on a lot of chrome, just the BASE model,vinyl seats,no carpet etc.Clean,professional and ZERO down time due to repairs.When I look at my tax returns before I started with new trucks and since new trucks I can easily proove that the new truck more than pays for itself.Of course if you have a different kind of business,or customers who don't mind oil spots left on their driveway, or you really enjoy crawling around under your truck trying to fix it, then by all means take pride in your beaters.(personally, I am completly mechanically inept, and I prefer to spend my free time coaching little league, not installing mufflers andbrakes). Anyhow, new trucks work for me and are completely cost effective. Good Luck, Stephen
*What kind of mileageare these v10's getting. Will it haul a backhoe?Blue
*Good point about looking at your income. Clean and professional will get you clean and professional clients.I am curious about the hand pounding. Are you afraid of injury? Not enough airpower? I use a small 1 1/2 horse 110v, and it services four framers.Just curious.Blue
*J. CallahanI used to have a 3/4ton Dodge with a diesel. The truck had a steel cap with side boxes and a rack made by Stahl. Nail guns went in one side and saws in the other. It was a nice setup except for the motor. The motor noise was too much. All service on diesels is much more expensive than gas motors. I have learned that most mechanics can work on a 350 or 351 while very few can work on diesels. At about 60,000 miles most of the pumps started going as well as the turbo.Now I drive a GMC 3/4 ton with a 350. It has the same cap set up except the new one is a Century. It is much lighter and cost about half the cost of the Stahl. If theft were a problem in my area I would go with the Stahl. I have thought of a van but I need the four wheel drive. A four wheel drive van is very pricey. I haven't noticed much increase in fuel use between the two trucks. The elevation where I live is 8,700 feet and the gas motor loses power because of this. The turbo on the diesel kept the old truck from lossing much power.
*Stephen,3/4 horse Rol-air compressor with a single sausage tank...My favorite little compresser years ago...Loved the soothing chug a chug...And the first major tool stolen from me....It was even locked up with huge chain around main panel box...they left the $50 dollar chain...the lock was gone???J
*Blue,the 6 man crew that does all the hand nailing are working as a sub contractor.They roof well over 100 houses a year on their own plus the houses I sub to them( anything I can't efficiently do alone)They are very happy hand nailing, take a lot of pride in it and it also turns out to be quite a sales tool for them.In fact this year I am planning to use this as a selling point when I bid jobs that I know they will be working for me.As I said,technically these guys are subs on my jobs,but I maintain a "visible" site presence, mostly to keep the homeowners happy and out of the crews way.Usually I do no on roof work,on these jobs, except the occasional "glitsy" flashing job. '* Jack,I like the little compressor,but would you believe I have never had tools or material stolen?(knock on wood)I rarely if ever lock up toolboxes or truck cab and never have problems.My wife thinks I am crazy going into some of the urban neighborhoods that I work in but I am NEVER hassled.I think people respect on some level that I am there to do a job and they leave me alone.On the other habd, I have a buddy that does a lot of interior work and he locks up everthing tighter than Fort Knox.Guess who gets ripped off again and again?I think his unconcious suspicion and hostility brings him bad Karma. Good Luck,Stephen
*Ive used trucks and vans but now I have a full size pickup and pull a 6x12 enclosed trailer. This works for me because it leaves the pickup free to be used as a pickup for running supplies, demo, or whatever. Also on the weekends I can use it for other things. In some areas and sites parking or access could be a problem but I haven't run into that yet. If you do get a trailer BUY THE EXTRA DOOR in the side of the trailer for access to the front. With this door I can reach the whole trailer with out climbing inside. I put ladder racks on mine. Fully loaded it weighs about 3000 lbs. I do new homes and remodels but sub the heavy work, masonry, concrete. I find it much easier to organize and access everything in the trailer and don't have nearly the problem with clutter that I had with a van or pickup and shell. I also advocate full size pickups whichever why you go. There are just times when bigger is better.
*Stephen,I have had very little theft also....keys are in my truck all the time and just recently found a key that works the front door of my home. I live where I live because it's thought of as safer...One little problem of the last decade...Because the NYC area is cracking down more on small crime...The not so dumb are "going on Upstate looting drives!!!!" May eventually have to move farther than a days commute!J
*Looks like a lot of people have my same philosophy on tools ( truck is just a tool, albeit very expensive). Look at who your customers are and the job to be done and get the best. That is why I ended up with what I have.RE: Fuel economy. Unless you are one of those 100,000 miles a year folks fuel is one of the cheapest things that goes into operating a vehicle. Two or three miles per gallon won't make more than a small blip in your budget. What becomes expensive is depreciation and maintenance.So, all the numbers I've run say to buy new, operate to around 80,000 miles(and while the model is still in the "Blue Book" if you are a low mileage type), or sooner if it starts to become a maintenance problem and then sell it and start all over.How big a pickup to buy depends on what you want to haul. My F250 Superduty will pull a 10,000 pound trailer or a 15,000 pound fifth wheel/gooseneck trailer. That is with the base suspension and axle ratios. Could have gone a lot heavier than that but I don't need it because my trailer only weighs about 7,000 pounds loaded.If I didn't have the load need I'd get a GM or Ford lighter duty truck with a smaller engine. But still full size for versatility, safety in crash, and operating economy.Sorry to be so long winded. But I used to do this kind of thing and sometimes get carried away. One of my mottoes is: "Lots of people can make money; it takes talent to keep it."
*Stephen, I think you are right! I have never taken my keys out of my van, except at the home depots!I think selling the "hand nailing" will help your retail sales. Even though there is no additional benifit, the homeowner doesn't know that. Just to keep my conscience clear, i wouldn't say that handnailing is better, I would just state that we do hand nail and take a lot of pride in it. V
*Excellent point, Fred B., Life is to short to spend it driving crappy trucks or eating "fat free" food.Enjoy life and put something away for the future. Good Luck, Stephen
*Sounds good fred, Im goingto study the numbers.Blue
*All the big work we do is subbed to our excavaction contractor except some final grading, post-hole digging, and lifting. We use a Kubota tractor for this, which goes in at about 2500 pounds. I haul that, and of course the trailer with an F150 without any problems. And if you do get a cap, splurge and get side opening windows (they're called "contractors" windows here). For the extra $60--its well worth the investment to keep me out of the back.
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I use and enjoy my '94 F150 4x4 ext.cab...I use the standard toolbox. I use to drive a 3/4 ton diesel van, it worked for me and the crew...I just get more use out of a pick-up.
blue - when you're right, you're right image is everything...my truck and I are always clean when we talk to new customers...it's all image.
In the end...I always research everything I buy...never settle.
Good Luck,
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It seems like there just isn't one perfrect rig. I live 30 miles from my shop so its a given that I'll be traveling those 60 miles every day. At one time I had a little Colt car that got 40 miles or more per gallon. The rear seat folded down it carried its share of tools, dead deer and elk. I also had a 1-ton Dodge with Cummins Diesel and a twelve foot flat bed. This truck is great with fairly good mileage. I have a number of trailers(garbage, equipment, flatbed materials, and a tool trailer. Once the tool trailer is on a job I would commute with the little car or my 1976 BMW motorcycle. The little car has since been replaced with a mini pickup with a toolbox and lumber rack. I like this combination for the work I do. !/2 new homes, 1/2 renovations and a couple of employees.
Trailers are a good way to go. A good flatbed trailer can be stacked in the right order with materials so everything needed for a deck or addition frame can be pulled off in order. The materials stay flat and can be covered easy. This might not be so good in parts of the country where things disappear
*Work trucks are a personal thing. The only way to handle how to get all the tools to a job and back is a moblie home? When it comes to what you drive to work I'm a car nut at heart and have the tools and abilty to keep them going. My present work of art is a 87 fully loaded 1 ton single axle chevy with a 454 auto. I love to pull into the local yard drop a load and walk away from the new fords and dodges on the road. A far as cost againest a new truck I come out ahead about $4,000 ahead a year.
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I run a one man remodeling show (unless I can encourage one of my sons to give me a hand -- they are looking for an easier job for some reason) in decks, baths, basements, repair and restoration. I have always used a van with a raised floor for long stuff and wall racks on each side. Subs ask me if I have some tool with me because I probably do. I get into a variety of jobs and the right tool or fastener (and not having to dig through the dregs of a pickup tool box) makes all the difference. I live in snow country and I like to have everything warm, dry and secure in there. I have big aluminum racks on top for real long stuff and pull a 5x10 open trailer for bulky loads before and trips to the landfill after. I have a 3/4-ton extended Chevy van now and I love it (except for the instruments). Having to use a pickup would be like taking away my nailgun and portable table saw -- I could do the job but I would be thinking to myself "There's got to be an easier way than this!"
*I am a carpenter/remodel contractor and I recently got into a GMC W3500 with a Supreme Service/Utility Van body (from a SWB Dodge Van)and I think it is great - so do a lot of guys that see it. It has side cabinets accessable from the ground and a big box with benches on the sides. I am building a mini shop into the box. It totes lumber to 12ft inside and longer stuff sticking out the back. The back door is only 42 in wide but 4X8 sheets stand on edge and are strapped to the work bench. Supreme Corp has a WEB site and they show a picture - that's where I found it. Ordered it built up from the GMC dealer. (see attached)
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My first one was a Saab 900 5 door. Nobody would have thought you could get 10' of conduit in there.
Been driving a '93 150 6 banger with manual since I bought it new. Been eyeing the new superduty 250 with a V-8 so I could go up hills, but can't deal with truck payments on an emotional level yet. Would love a cap when it rains but 90% of the time I get away with it.
I do most of my work at one site for a year or so, so toolboxes and stuff don't wind up being that important.
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We have a 97 ford f350 that we use for our building andremodeling business. however, we do not have tool boxes on it. just a rack for lumber. we prefer to keep our tools in a trailer that we bought. we keep everything in it, even a table saw. it has been the best setup so far. at night, we just unhook the trailer. that way we can use the truck for personal use also. at the job site it works well to. if one person has to get lumber, all the tools stay at the job site.
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Why not get the best of both worlds?
I started off with a pickup and had all the problems everyone here has mentioned. Now I have an extended cab Z-71 with a tool box and a 6'w x 14'l x 6'h covered trailer. Bought the trailer used (in good condition), had it painted the company colors, had a welder friend design and put a rack on top (with rollers every 2ft) and had the company sign put on the sides and back. It has a full width double back door and a smaller single door on the side at the front. Had same friend make a rolling pull-out rack for side door that contains my generator and air compressor. Made some shelves for both sides. Now I don't have to worry about getting tools wet, stolen, etc. Every tool has a place on a shelf, short ladders, hoses, extension cords are hung on hooks above the shelves and depending on the job location, I can chain the trailer and not have to haul it home every night. The rack on top handles long extension ladders, walkboards, the ocassional long material hauled to the job. This way, if I have to call on a customer, the tools stay on the job where my crew has access to them.
First impressions are everything. By having my trailer on the jobsite (1 day or 1 month) I give the impression that I am not a fly-by-night operation and that I am a professional.
Having a 4-wheel drive vehicle means being able to get to the job, helping get others un-stuck on that occassional bad jobsite after a heavy rain (for those that have all their tools in the back), etc.
Having a trailer that can stay at the job means that I save wear & tear, increase my gas milage per gallon, and keeps tools from growing legs and walking when I have to go to the supply house for that item that is holding up the job. I found my trailer for $1200.00, had it sanded and painted for 400.00, signs for 200.00 and 300.00 for the modifications.
I've found that this works for me and keeps the maintenance lower on my truck.
If you get a trailer, before you start modifying the inside, do just it like you do a job. Draw up some plans before you pick up the hammer or welder.
*I drive a ford F-150 with 2 hiside long toolboxes and a ladder rack. One side box is for my tools and the other is for hardware , and everything that doesn't fit in the first one. An 8 x 10 blue tarp and a handful of bungees makes the bed acceptable for transporting stuff in materials and equipment in the rain. I drape it over the boxes and bungee it fore and aft, and both sides. Gives me a poormans camper , about three feet high. My friend is going to make me a snap on canvas cover when he gets " a round tuit".This rig works well for me as a General Contractor/Carpenter. Next truck is going to have that extra seat in the back though. I need a place for the dropclothes and the cooler.
*like that trailer idea, but where do you park it when its not on the job? I dont have room at home and parking spaces cost bigtime around here. Also with all my tools onboard I'd worry about it all night.
*Just one guys experience:Started out with a good older chev p/u, canopy, and a good lumber rack. Finally got tired of crawling around inside canopy for tools and cleaning, ditched the canope kept the rack. Installed twin tool boxes (the kind that you mount from side to side) on the sides for easier access. Still left room for 4' sheet goods on edge between them. This arrangement worked well for most situations. Then last winter arrived. Boxes started leaking, I'd get soaked just going out to the truck to get a tool, and I wanted a place to rummage through my stuff comfortbly. The light dawned, and I bought a cube van with a 14' box. Yes, it's a lot to haul around, but I make fewer trips since I can carry more stuff, and my quality of life on the job has gone up dramatically. Lousey mileage, less than great power,but hey, I've got a home stereo in the back and an espresso maker and a rolling steel tool chest with DRAWERS. Try that in a pickup. (yes, the chest is secured from rolling). Works for me.
*A year ago I went the enclosed trailer route also. I love it. Frees up the pickup for other uses. Everything in its place. My advice is if you do get a trailer get the extra side door up front. In fact If I ever buy another I'll get doors on both sides up front. Full size pickup and I like V8's. I'd probably really like a V-10. Or maybe someday a V-12 dual turbo-diesel. Build it and they will buy.
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Thinking about a new or newer vehicle. What do you drive and why. Pickup or van, 1/2 or 3/4 ton, gas or diesel, foreign or domestic,advantages and disadvantages of each, especially as it relates to building. Also, has anyone used the trailers with the dump bodies on them? Any comments would be appreciated.