I know I’ve brought this up before, but it’s been a while.
I hesitate to call these incidents a “truss collapse”, as the trusses don’t really collapse – They simply fall over. But that seems to be what everyone calls them.
One of the frustrating things about the truss business is that when we talk about truss bracing, no one wants to listen. As soon as I bring up truss bracing a contractor will automatically shift into a defensive mode, as if I’m insulting his carpentry skills.
I have unfortunately been to many sites after the trusses have fallen. I have never seen or heard of one that was caused by defective trusses. Every one of them has been due to inadequate bracing. But in every one of those cases, the framer thought they were braced O.K.
When trusses are being set and they fall down, it can be a nightmare. It will delay the job for several days to several weeks and will end up costing YOU money. Even if you have insurance.
Workers have been seriously injured or killed in these incidents for no good reason.
So please be careful when you set trusses. I HATE hearing about and dealing with these kind of incidents.
Here are a couple of examples that have been in the news lately:
http://www.nbc4columbus.com/news/2452907/detail.html
http://www.naplesnews.com/03/09/bonita/d971497a.htm
The only good loan is a paid loan
Replies
And the Columbus roof had collapsed once before. Some people have a real aversion to learning.
Boss, do you have any safe and sure guidlines for truss bracing and placement. It is painfully obvious that common practice isn't good enough and I am not sure that I understand all the forces at work here.
I never want to be in a position where I have to call an employees family and tell them that I caused someone to be hurt because of my ignorance.
SamT
I don't really have any "safe and sure guidlines". The best source of info I know of is the sheets they send out with truss orders. (HIB-91)
You can download a .PDF version of it here: http://www.tpinst.org/Color%20HIB%2091%20Sheet_v3.pdf
Or see it in HTML here: http://www.eckmanbc.com/trusstech/tpi3.htm
Any of you who have read through that document know that the recommendations in there are EXTREMELY overdone. I've never seen a roof braced the way they recommend. But there's a lot of info in there that's worthwhile. The poiints I would emphasize would be:
1. Use diagonal bracing.
2. Make sure the braces are attached to something solid at the ends.
3. Drive nails all the way in - Don't leave the heads sticking out part way.
.
Check out this page, about 2/3 of the way down. Check out the pictures of the models showing how diagonal bracing works:
http://www.woodtruss.com/prodother.php
.
Here are a few other bracing-related documents from the WTCA website:
http://www.woodtruss.com/images/publication_images/ttbperm.pdf
http://www.woodtruss.com/images/publication_images/ttbtemp.pdf
http://www.woodtruss.com/images/publication_images/warningposter.pdfWithout geometry, life is pointless.
Boss:
Both of the truss manufacturers I've worked with reciently sent out orange HIB-91 sheets with each truss package. The problem is that it seems to be oriented towards warehouses, and I do residential. I'm not sure anyone looks at em (although I have looked at it thoroughly). A coupla times I about blew a gadget when I saw guys climbing around up on a "row of dominos" with a coupla 1/4s holding up the whole mess.
As long as we are on the subject of bracing, the means of specification of perm truss bracing has always left a little to be desired too. And god help 'em if they can't read english. We are not in a high wind area, but I think a few more 2x4s than the minimum is cheap insurance since hurricanes do make it to Raleigh every once in a while.
Matt
Any of you who have read through that document know that the recommendations in there are EXTREMELY overdone. I've never seen a roof braced the way they recommend.
Would you care to come to PA and see a whole bunch of them ? We actually brace beyond what is shown in the PDF file below. That file shows the same sketch that we get with our trusses.
All it took was to have sat on the ridge of a 60' gable end truss with the erection nearly complete at the opposite end (120' away) when a big windstorm kicked up and all of the wind bracing started buckling and tearing off. There were 11 of us about 20' up in the air above the concrete floor below. We were able to yank the sheathed gable off and get the building stable.
so, if you were wondering why it says 'carpenter in transition' below, you have one of the reasons.................
carpenter in transition
Boss
I did some renovation work this past spring.
The roof was truss.
When I opened things up and looked at the truss bracing, all I saw was 2 2x4's nailed to one gable end.
When I climbed up to add more bracing, I found that the 2x's were only tacked at the ends.
I know who the builder was (he's long gone from the area) and he was supposed to do quality work.
I wonder what other surprises are around.
Jeff
Jeff, I think we're talking about 2 different things.
I was talking about erection bracing - Keeping the trusses from falling over until they're sheeted in with plywood.
I believe you're talking about permenant bracing, which is another subject entirely. Bumpersticker: Back off! I'm not that kind of car.
Boss
Sorry I wasn't more specific.
But, this was both the temporary and permenent bracing.
Scared me to death when I relized how lucky the owner was.
Jeff
Hi Boss,
I'm pretty new around Breaktime and I wanted to tell you that I appreciate the info in this thread.
The guy I work for seems to think any braces can be put in later. And it scares me to death. I always get my way when I ask for some timber to hold them up, but it's usually after a little "discussion".
And I've never seen any paperwork delivered with the trusses. So now I have my own.
Thanks again,
Brian
PS.. you mention erection bracing, don't you think a wooden ruler and rubber bands are adequate? :-)
"PS.. you mention erection bracing, don't you think a wooden ruler and rubber bands are adequate? :-)"
Welcome.
You may be new around here, but it looks like you'll measure up and snap right in here just fine.
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 9/9/2003 10:07:14 PM ET by piffin
Baaad. Way bad.
But speak for yourself. Some prefer a yard stick and duct tape.
Do it right, or do it twice.
Delusions of grandeur.
Andy E has always said he likes a good pun. Thought I could get some brownie points racked up for the next time I get in trouble..
Excellence is its own reward!
Thank you, Sir.
View Image
I'm surprised none of the incorrigible old reprobates has mentioned Viagra. After all, Rafael Palmeira does.
DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
Don,
Better living through chemicals and much less cumbersome than a ruler.
Good thinking.View Image
Always glad ta have a new face around.
If you haven't seen paperwork delivered with the trusses, it's possible it just gets thrown away by the first guy who gets ahold of it. (That's what happens the majority of the time, I think)
Or maybe the driver has bracing sheets, but only hands 'em out on request. Hard to say - Things are done very differently in various parts of the country.
Where the heck is Buffalo, Missouri?A gossip is someone with a great sense of rumor.
Hey bee.
Welcome to BT, from Columbia, MO.
SamT
Buffalo is 33 miles north of Springfield, MO on US65.
Even though it's our county seat, it is just a speck on a map.
Did I catch it somewhere that you are from Illinois?
My Dad's hometown is Sheffield, Ill. Another little town. North of Peoria.
Erection bracing jokes aside, I really do appreciate the info that you have shared.
BrianView Image
I'm in Illinois - About an hour northeast of St. Louis.The important thing to remember is that if you don't have that inspired enthusiasm that is contagious --- whatever you do have is also contagious [Danny Cox]
I'll be flying over you next weekend, be sure to look up, I'll be the guy waving from ~30k feet up...
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
Is that from insde your crate or do you suppose you can loose long enough to wave?
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
I'm not shipping myself in any type of crate, guess you could consider coach more of a cattle car, so maybe I'll go by rail?
I can't verify it, but I heard from someone at work today, that it cost about the same as a first class ticket for that guy to ship himself, BUT he charged it to his company, either way, I'm betting lossing his job is the least of his concerns at the moment.Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.