My husband and I live on the coast in Northern California. We have a lot next door that we would like to put a house on. I would like to act as general contractor, create and oversee that project. We have read Fine Homebuilding magazine for years but neither of us are in the construction industry and are somewhat clueless.
Any suggestions on how I can go about educating myself in this area? I’m thinking in terms of maybe books, courses, software? Anything that would help prepare me for the challenge. I was also toying with the idea of volunteering for a short stint with Habitat for Humanity.
Replies
At the top left is ADVANCED SEARCH
Use that with the phrase - owner builder -
You will find lots of info.
Also google will get a lot of info. There are web sites/forums that specialize in owner builder.
There are also companies that provide "support" for owner builders. U-Build and Owner Builder Network are a couple.
The services and cost vary from company ot company.
Thank you very much, Bill!
Volunteering with Habitat is a great way to learn some of the basics. Inexperience is expected and the knowledgable folks will help you out.
Steve.
Welcome!
Bill and Steve gave excellent contacts/paths.
I'd add one more to consider, depending on your physical capabilities, financial means, etc. based on own experience on own houses and some volunteer commercial level type work. That is that wife and I found it easier to actually do ALL the work ourselves rather than try to rely on subcontractors, etc.
It also was an excellent excuse to buy a few 10's of thousands of dollars worth of tools from backhoe and dozer to handtools.
Very dependent on your situation, income level (you don't necessarily want to dig ditches by hand if you pull down $200/hr at a law firm or clinic, etc), and enjoying the work. Even then, building is goo exercise and sure is more productive than working out on a machine or jogging.
if you don't do all the labor yourself, the house will cost double what a local builder would charge. since you are not an establish company in the trade, all material and subs will be at a premium. Then there is the emotion side of the project, that itself will drive up the cost.
If you not going to drive all the nail yourself. let somebody else GC the job.
Now if you plan on all the labor then its great you can save a lot. But suppliers and sub take advantage of unexperienced GC, its like feeding meat to the wolfs.
Edited 4/30/2006 5:21 pm by brownbagg
If you not going to drive all the nail yourself. let somebody else GC the job.
Agree 100%. Nothing but aggravation otherwise.
Brother did hire some concrete work done once when he built an addition, nothing but schedule headaches as he was last on the list of priorities as he was a 'one time' job.
You are absolutely right. No homeowner could get the same prices I could get on materials, etc.
Good information and food for thought. Thanks for the input.
Did you follow the U-Build-It thread, the one which documented an owner-builder job in Michigan from start to finish? A nice successful job was done (and documented well) by some bright young first-timers with no previous building experience.
It may be somewhat location-dependent, but I believe that someone inexperienced in residential construction can successfully GC their own project (and actually save money), provided that they prepare well. I did it twice in two completely different locations (NE Indiana and far upstate NY) and know my hard costs down to the penny.
I'm not aware of Texas licensing requirements, so I cannot be sure, but I'll bet I could GC myself a house there and save money, too. I lived in Texas once, met my wife-to-be there, and consider it one of my favorite places on earth.
Like rocket science, housebuilding for yourself is something that can be learned, and today's resources like U-Build-It are a great aid.
It may be somewhat location-dependent, but I believe that someone inexperienced in residential construction can successfully GC their own project (and actually save money), provided that they prepare well.
Not unless you're unemployed and your own time is free. And even then, there is absolutely no way you're going to get the same prices from subs as I do. Think about it! You're giving the sub one job. I give him from several dozen to maybe a hundred jobs EACH YEAR. Who do you think will get the better price? Add the HO/DIY/PITA premium every good sub charges for dealing with non-pros and you are far, far behind money-wise.
There are only 2 reasons to do it yourself: 1. You like doing it and you don't care that it will cost more or 2. You are unable to find a competent GC.
DG/Builder
Out of curiosity, how many new homes did you GC in the past twelve months?
Got any pics? Plans? Do you have a website with a gallery? Here is one I like: http://www.easlingconstruction.com. I am working with a guy right now that is having a place built by them, that is almost an exact copy of one I just finished.
These guys (Easling) deal with one of their typical subs on maybe ten separate jobs per year, not the hundreds like you do. But they are great builders.
I agree that a huge builder like you can command loyalty and low pricing from subs and suppliers, but that still doesn't mean that an owner-builder cannot save money building his own house.
Where I live now, there are a lot of projects that are owner-built, but it is certainly not the majority. The building material suppliers that I know do not have any multi-tiered pricing, other than "pro" and "retail." And anyone seeking to GC their own place has no problem establishing and account and getting the pro pricing.
As for subs, I have always found that there are some who won't work, period, for an owner-builder. Too bad. They are entitled to their opinions, as are you. But, it takes all kinds of people to make the world go around, and thus there are subs that will in fact work for an owner-builder, and even price their work the same as for a pro GC like you.
For me when I built for myself, I was able to get a new sub's attention, and maintain loyalty and attention to business, by communicating clearly, scheduling well, and paying promptly, very promptly.
Contracting your own home doesn't require that you quit your job. Take it from me. It means you will work a lot of evenings, early mornings, lunchtimes, and some weekends, communicating, coordinating, buying, scheduling, following up, etc. You know the drill. I did my first one when working a job that had me at my desk and in the plants and shops from 6:30am till 6:00pm most weekdays, and the site was 50 miles from my home, and 35 miles from my job.
I would love to do it again, in Texas, maybe in a place like Wimberly. I'll bet it would be a pleasure. In my early career, I was a construction super for a place that did specialty siding and roofing on commercial and industrial jobs (auto plants, stadiums, powerplants, etc.), and the ironworkers and sheetmetal workers I worked with in Texas were some of the best folks I've ever known.
But, as I can tell from your posts, you will remain unconvinced, and come back with the line that owner-builders pay more and get less. So be it.
Edited 5/1/2006 2:55 pm ET by Gene_Davis
I have to agree with Gene on just about everything he said.
I contracted my own home last year here in Iowa and it was certainly doable. But it is far more work and time than you think it will be You won't save as much money as the books would have you believe. We went over budget about 15% but most of that was discretionary (i.e. more hardwood, more tile, whole house audio etc). Here is a link to some pictures and some costs. In the end we probably saved about 15% including doing some of the work ourselves. If I had subbed everything out, the savings would have been closer to 10%.
Here is a link to a post showing a few pictures and some details:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=66929.1
I am sure it depends a lot on where you live. I had no problem finding subs who would give me the same exact pricing as they were giving the two builders I approached about building the house for us. Now neither of these builders are huge, maybe 10 houses per year, but they are two of the most sought after builders in town. There are a couple really big builders doing tract homes here in town and they do beat their subs down in price, but that is also why none of the better subs in town want to work for them. If some subs do factor in a PITA factor for O/B, I got around that by being well prepared when I approached them with good sets of prints, spec sheets, complete project schedules etc.
As for materials, like Gene said, most of the yards here either have one price for all customers, or a "retail" and "pro" pricing. I had no problem getting the pro pricing (normally ~10%) and by shopping the bid for my material package to a couple yards, I was able to get the price down even further.
Now the one place an O/B will suffer is with the subs schedules. Some will put your job lower on the priority list than those jobs that they have lined up for contractors who are giving them a number of houses that year. My foundation and plumbing subs did this and made our schedule slip by almost a month. Fortunately my framing sub had some flexibility in his schedule. But this is one risk you take doing it yourself.
And like others have said, the second one always goes more smoothly.
Regards,
Dennis
I,m not complaining. I built my own house myself. I just learned that if you not a major contractor, subs laugh at you and you end of with second string subs that want to run your job. then at payoff time . all of sudden, prices are double and quality is half. They dont care they would never see you again.so I stand by my first statement."Unless you drive every nail yourself, you going get screwed"
Contracting your own home doesn't require that you quit your job. Take it from me. It means you will work a lot of evenings, early mornings, lunchtimes, and some weekends, communicating, coordinating, buying, scheduling, following up, etc.
Exactly my point. It's "work hours" beyond your 40/wk at your day job. To most of us, that time has a value. To some, a large value. And every task is going to take 3-5 times as long the first time compared to somebody who's been a GC for even a few years. So most people are better off working some extra hours at their day job or taking a side job in their field.
Sort of like cooking. I can cook. If I really wanted to, I could "save" on a restaurant bill and make my own very elaborate meal. But by the time I spend 5 hours making it, finding out where to buy the special ingredients, special recipe, etc., it's cheaper, easier and better to just go to a good restaurant and pay $100 for a special meal.
If on the other hand you consider your "spare time" to cost nothing, well, I could use a little free labor every now and then...:)
DG/Builder
Letsgetafterit,
I am a custom homebuilder. I have been in the building trades since starting as a frame carpenter in 1971.
Occasionally, I have been asked by clients to do a "dry-in" for them which consist of foundation / rough-in (ground) plumbing / framing / cornice includng windows and exterior doors and sometimes exterior painting. In the past 20 years we have been asked to do this about 8 times.
All 8 clients have said they would finish the home, subbing or performing all other phases. I had given a bid to complete the homes, and each opted to finish the homes themselves.
All 8 clients came back and told me they wished they had opted to allow us to complete the home. They sited many of the problems mentioned by others in this thread, and told me they did not save a significant amount of money, took longer to finish than our schedule and feel they did not get as well built a home as we would have provided.
There are positive and negative post. I think much depends on a persons management abilities, negotiation skills, diligence, self discipline and level of experience. The negative commnets which steer you toward hiring a builder should not be minimalized. Also note that many of the positive comments come from people who actually did much of the work themselves, and consequently saved some money.
If you do lean toward tackling the project yourselves, it would be wise to at least test the waters of hiring a builder. You will then have a target budget and schedule. Perhaps there is a local builder in your area who will provide consultation and resources for a minimual consideration, or one of the aforementioned DIY builder organizations can provide guidance before and during the project.
I was contacted two years ago to provide a bid for a very large hay farmer. (the farmer was not large, just his hay operation) They decided to build the whole home themselves. A friend and fellow farmer told me last week that they had major foundation problems in their new home, a problem created by lack of knowledge and a foundation sub who confidently provided his own design. We have never had a foundation problem. All of our homes are proceeded by a soil test and foundation engineering.
You will certainly want to obtain the right professional guidence to offset these types of problems.
Edited 5/1/2006 8:42 pm ET by txlandlord
yeah ...
but they're screwed when someone expects that first start check!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Ah, yes, the "start check" diversion. A regular feature of the remodeling biz, but a rare thing in new builds. I ain't paid a starter yet to a sub, and hope never to have to. We do, however, make deposits in advance of engineering and fabrication, on custom cab orders, and large prefinished lumber packages.
Why insert this diversion in this thread?
BTW, in travels about the little old UK, the kingdom by the sea, did you ever crawl around over in Somerset, or down in Cornwall? We loved being in those parts.
both Somerset and Cornwall.
name pretty much any good sized town and we've at least driven thru.
First big trip was 10 days ... 6 full days of driving. Had a whole route maped out just in case I never mad it back ... actually had time to tour most towns/attractions too.
My wife worked for British Airways for 18 yrs .. we were together har last 6 years with them ... I got over as much as possible ... and pretty much each trip over ... rented a car and tried to get lost.
Only the most southern part of Scotland and a bit of Wales ... but most of England.
All the other trips aside from the big one were long weekends .. but we still got out of London as much as possible.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
See what courses your local community college has to offer.
I have done this for 3 homes of my own. I was not a building novice having spent 4 college years working with a crew of do everything small town carpenters. The first time I used a GC then subed back from him the work I wanted to do myself.
The 2nd & 3rd time I designed & blue printed myself then GC'd them. I found that I got as good prices for materials as smaller subs recieved. I also found that working with larger suppliers got better prices & service than with smaller ones. The same goes for subs. The "big" people get your work into their schedule and get it done; and done right. They also have the staff to give you good alternative options and can explain their long term impact on your final project. In ether case just expect their regular customers to recieve priority when their work load is backed-up so plan to provide early heads-up when you see their function on the horizon & don't hound them. The most unreliable subs and suppliers were the least skilled.
If you are planning to do the design your self; Pay a professional engineer to review the plans & specs to conform to Codes. There are really some design issues where you need advice. Most builders do.
Remember,there are some issues e.g. HVAC & Electrical service entrences where there are probably a safety issues best left to professionals.
Good luck. You will find the end results satisfying. JUST DON'T UNDERTAKE THIS ONLY TO SAVE BIG BUCKS. YOU WILL GET VERY WORN DOWN BEFORE IT IS FINISHED. You will also find your workmanship quality going down hill at finish time just when it needs to be at its best.
Jim Andersen
If you're ON the coast (or within the range controlled by the Coastal Commission) I sure hope you already have permits from them. I'm sure you already know this, but it can take years to decades to get approval to build - one jerk down the road or on the commission is all it takes.
Other than that, lots of good advice given already. Good luck!
Or than what has been recommended and the "coastal Commision" (oh joy..), if you are ON the coast, then you really need to research and fully understand flashing and waterproofing a home better than most contractors probably do.
Being some one that has built a home on the coast of Washington. I have seen rain blow side ways and up underneath decks and over hangs/eaves.
Why would you want to risk quite possibly the largest investment you will ever make to a beginner (yourselves). Maybe start with a smaller project first. Try building a car for yourself in your garage or driveway. If you save money with that, then you would probably be able to build your own house. Another good way to save money is to be your own realtor or your own lawyer so you can save closing costs. Another good savings is to be your own doctor and then you no longer have to pay outrageous medical bills. You would no longer need health insurance either.
I know I'm being ridiculous. But I think you are too. I am a builder, not a GC, which means I wear a tool belt each day rather than sit behind a desk. I have lost several jobs to homeowers who thought the budget/estimate I produced for their home was too high. They decided to be their own GC. They all told me personally (later) that their home costs more than my estimate. They also said it was the worst mistake of their lives.
Being your own GC can be done and you can be successful. You should prepare to educate yourself for al least a year before beginning. Read everything you can get your hands on about building. Not just magazine articles but books. Take classes from the local college or technical school.
Building a home is a large undertaking (not talking about square footage here). The biggest/hardest thing to learn is the sequence of how things go together. And then how to change/rearrange the sequence when someone is late and someone else is early.
Be prepared for a trail of vehicles filling your driveway every Friday afternoon. That will be the subs wanting a check (or cash) for the work that they were supposed to finish this week but will come back on Saturday to finish (not).
Don't get me wrong, you CAN do it. It's just not easy, even for us who have chosen this as a career. If I were in you shoes, I would probably do it. I did do it and that's how I got into this business in the first place. Because I did build my first house for myself, I am going to try to talk you out of it unless you plan to make a career out of it. We need people like you in this business. People who are not afraid to take on a challenge.
I wish you well
Chris Calhoun
Blackstone Builders
Douglas, GA
I did/am doing this. You should only do it if you like taking your time and like doing things with your hands. Don't consider it to save money. You might not be able to do it if you finance with a bank. I built my own house with cash as we went. Banks require things to be done a tighter schedule; lots of pages of regs. My house is very rural and theft was not a problem. My subs were very informal and became my friends. I've got my own truck to haul materials to and away from the site. Building inspector was friendly and informal, not lax though.
Here's a big kicker....it cost me my marriage. It's a long story and this is not the forum, but let's say it's ten times worse than teaching a loved one to play Bridge, drive a standard transmission or pick out wallpaper you both like.
I've promised for years to post pictures and tell the story and I'll be ready soon. You have to have some avocation for tools and building, but most of all you have to like the adventure and think that cuts, aching muscles, setbacks, unanticipated delays are part of the construction process.
Building your second house will go much smoother! :)
I wish you luck on this project. If you have the time to excute it and the right partner to support it you'll succeed. I just finished building a 1,200 sq ft addition on my ranch. With this being a slab I needed more room for storage.
I hired a architect to draw up the footprint. I interview several builders and GC's, and got the their costs, based on my drawings. The light went on when I talked to my plumber regarding his cost to rough and finish the job. He told me you can do this, it will be long but plan everything out and don't pay the trades all up front.
Well I'm entering the 2nd year on the project.
Accomplishments:
I dug the footing and laid the rebar and ordered the concrete.
I went to HD and gave them my spec's for ordering the wood.
I went through a truss company and had them come out and measure .
Along with two other guys we put up the walls and raised the trusses in the dead of winter (Michigan)
I ordered the shingles, felt and we covered the roof in two days.
I put in the new windows, and finished the trim outside.
I prep for the slab but hired out the concrete part
I framed in all the inside walls and insulated then hung the sheetrock.
I hired out the mud guy to tape and sand.
I found the brick to match the existing house, hired out the mason
I hired out the electrician and HVAC.
Plumbing was roughed in by my plumber. I did the finish.
I did the painting
What's left?
Cover the garage walls with sheetrock and finish the master bath.
I'm still married and my kids still know me.
But, I still had to work to put food on the table.
I
Start going to jobsites and see how the pro's do it.
Talk to them, buy 'em a beer or two. Take some classes in building.
Don't skimp on tools, they'll be with you for a long time.
Measure twice cut once. When you start out you'll start using muscles
that you never thought were there, slow down.
The reward is that you did it. We're here for either a short or long time
make the best out of it.
fredy5
I tend to agree with both sides of the opinion here. On one hand it is a profession where knowledge is gained by experience and that takes time - usually years. On the other hand I know of some who have pulled it off because they were a 'natural' at it and/or were lucky.
I will add my recent experience FWIW.
Though I made a living as a carpenter and have built houses and additions before, I had never built my own house and hadn't worn a tool belt fulltime for several years. I am trained as an architect as well, so I designed my own house also. Though even I, one who made his living doing this, spent a good year or so before hand researching new techniques and materials (some of it right here on BT) before commencing. I did all of the carpentry and finish and subbed out the foundations, drywall, roofs and mechanical trades (all of which I have done plenty of in the past, but I was on a tight schedule). My subs and suppliers seemed to appreciate what I was doing and went the extra mile for me, which is not the norm given the area where I built.
As for cost, it was much cheaper than having contracted it all out, and I built it to my standards. I also worked fulltime, completing my day job in the evenings and weekends that I wasn't working on the house. My marriage survived it too.. barely :~)
Edited 5/1/2006 4:32 pm ET by TGNY
Letsbuildahouse, welcome to Breaktime. You certainly can GC your house. As others have mentioned, I wouldn't set out with "saving $$" as your primary goal, but I don't subscribe to all the boogeymen fears that some of the people in this thread put forth.
As far as materials: Some suppliers (lumberyards,et al) will let you set up a contractor's account. This then lets you get the contractor discount (if available). With the contractor price, shopping around for your materials, and having everything mapped out ahead of time, I think you can match even the big builder's prices.
As far as subs: maybe some subs won't want to work with owner-builders...so what. You can find some that will. The bigger problem is finding GOOD subs. In many cases, the pro's have already ran into bad subs and have taken years to build up their stable of good subs, so don't be surprised if you run into a few bad ones along the way. Just keep your butt covered to minimize the damage.
Important things to keep in mind:
1. Plan, plan, plan! And then plan some more. The better planned out you have each step, the smoother it will go. And keep the plan flexible, because no plan stays intact past the first day.
2. Keep your cool. Don't let the little things get you down. Don't let the big things get you down.
3. Expect the house to take longer to build than you thought, cost more than you thought, and take more of your time than you thought.
Here is a link to Kacy's thread. Kacy and DH (da husband) GC'ed their home addition. They utilized Ubuildit which is a company that helps owner builders get over the rough spots. If you read the whole thread, you can see the high spots and low spots that they went through (as they were going through them). You might even be able to reply to one of Kacy's posts and get her to comment.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=53790.1
jt8
"The difference between greatness and mediocrity is often how an individual views a mistake..."-- Nelson Boswell
Good advice.
Either get yourself a good marriage counselor or a good divorce lawyer.
In case you had not noticed, you hit a "hot button" issue here <g>.
How do learn the trades well enough to build a house?
That's a question for which many have an answer, but almost none of the answers are the same.
The first thing you should do, is go to your specifica AHJ (Authority Having Jusrisdiction) and find out what they will require for plans, permits, etc. If you live in city limits, this can often be found by going to the city's web page and looking for Building Department, Permits, and/or Planning & Development (which saveas trip downtown). If you are out of town, often your county will have the pertinent info (if it is enforced) on the county's web page. This information will establish what you will be required to do far better than we here on the internet.
The State of California can have some very strict seimic rules to comply with. This could mean needing take your plans past soils and structural engineers. Being on or near the coast can mean some strict wind resistance rules, which affect your choices of windows, doors & the like (and not cheaper, sad to say). North California is like to have some rather recent changes in fire-resistant material choices, too.
Very few things to compare as "learning" experiences like those "oh yeah's." As in, "Oh yeah, you shoud'a put in 200mph rated windows; you should'a put in x shear walls; you shoulda used cementitios roof shingles" . . . etc. Or, you don't want to find out (as a local muckity-muck did <evil, wicked, grin>) that you just cannot flout City requirements for stamped, complete drawings, that you actually use for construction (that "stop work" had to hurt, the TCEQ injunction will be tougher to swallow with all that crow).
You might check with local Design-Build firms, too. Since they are already integrating two of the steps in creating a house, you can get a lot more involved in the construction of a house to your desires.
Check into Ubuildit. They're a company that will line you up with subs and help you along the way.
Doo Dah, Doo Dah.
be prepared for a lot of frustration.and it will cost at least twice what you think.also your marrige better be really,really strong or be married to a saint.it's a challenge for a pro to do it full time,and even with no mistakes[impossible],it's a full time job.if you'renot there,things will not go as planned.[no one's fault]things will happen.prepare to take a year off work to manage the project and you'll see why builders have to charge what they do.
good lucK
MATT