Installed a 3068 Simpson half lite doug fir door yesterday in a 2×6-framed wall. My partner had a pair of Stabila levels, one at 6/6, the other at 32 inches . . . the doorhanger’s dream.
I did everything right, or so I thought. The subfloor was a heavy sixteenth out of level from side to side, so I tacked on a cedar shim. Perfect! I plumbed up the hinge jamb and fastened it to the opening, first with 16d galv finish nails through the fat part of the jamb, then removed the two inside hinge screws for each hinge, and drove in 3″ screws. The hinge jamb is dead plumb and straight. The sill and head are straight, parallel to one another, and level. The strike jamb is shimmed straight and plumb, and fastened to the framing. The door slab swings free and at half open, doesn’t go open or closed by itself.
The opening isn’t dog legged and neither is the installed frame. I did the X-string thing to the opening before the install, marked a little adjustment, and compensated accordingly when doing the installation. The frame strung out with the strings touching at the center of the X. Perfect!
But the margins are out of whack. The hinge side margin is way too open at the top hinge corner, and of course almost tight at the top head strike side. Both opening and slab are square, and sized correctly. The hinge side margin at the bottom corner is almost tight. Simply put, the door is sagged.
I must either remove the bottom hinge, and pack it out with a paper shim, or remove the top hinge, and cut the mortise a scant deeper. Or do both. Haven’t done that yet, though.
How about one of those Gary Katz “hinge tweaks?” Remind me again, how to do that.
Replies
Gene, are you sure you didn't over pull the top hinge w/the screw? maybe tipping the plane of the jamb a bit throwing the barrells toward the strike side? What happens if you back out that 3" screw?
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
That happens with EVERY door I hang!
Put a Cresent wrench on the top hinge and tweak it towards the jamb. Some times you have to grip each "barrel" of the hinge separatly and work it. The idea is you want to shift the axis of the top hinge back and bring the door level. Oh yea protect the hinge or of course you'll ding it. Work slow and check the entire reveal as you do. Also double check everything with the lower hinges before.
Some hinges are just too robust for much adjustment. At that point I resort to shimming behind the lower hinges in this case. Of course this sometimes means rehanging the door and shaving a bit off if tolerances are already low.
yea GK has a great explaination somewhere. Maybe his book or his website but you'll get pictures there.
W
It isn't an engineering project. Put the unit in the RO, check the header for level, plumb the hinge side, tack it through the casing or jamb, fit the rest to the door. Who cares if the jamb is perfect in every way, the door has to look, fit and work correctly. Don't poke it full of nails until it is right.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Who cares if the jamb is perfect in every way, the door has to look, fit and work correctly.
Evidently, Gene does, and maybe the HO. Everybody has their own set of standards they have to abide by, and I guess Gene's is just a tad higher than yours. I don't blame him for wanting to get the margin consistent, especially if this is a high end door in a high profile entry. When you hang a door, you are hanging the quality of your work out where everybody can examine it, and any discrepancy will be magnified. People can tell the difference from those that sweat the details, and those that do not. They make future decisions with that in mind.
BTW, 'looking correctly' is subjective; what will pass for some, will fail for others.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
I`m with Hammer on this one Nick...shim the sill level....plumb the hinge side jamb, and adjust the rest of the frame to accomodate the door.
Never met a prehung door that was perfectly set....not the frame, nor the door in the frame.
If the homeowner wanted perfection he should be paying for a custom hang...not a prehung unit.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
I hear ya, but if I read it correctly, he did all that (and more) and it still came out with an inconsistent margin. So you would leave it as is without tweaking it to get it more consistent? (FWIW, when that happens I've found either the top hinge screws aren't tight - if the door had been removed from jamb previously - or, as someone already mentioned, the hinge side jamb is driven into the trimmer too far, I use countersunk screws thru the jamb to allow adjusting during installation to tweak the door frame because I have yet to hang a door in an old house with square and plumb walls.)
I have to admit I've walked away from a few in the condition similar to Gene describes, but not after I've emptied the bag of tricks attempting to correct it. I just don't like a door hung with inconsistent margins, it's one of those personal quirks I guess.
Of course, I have no way of knowing what he has already tried, and since I have a tremendous amount of respect for Gene and his past experiances with doors, I can only assume it's considerable. And at some point you have to decide when is enough, enough. Might be an economic line in the sand, so to speak.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
I think we just found the difference between hanging a custom door and a prehung.
Prehung's come with questionable hinges ...
if ya follow everyone else's advice and make the door work within it's own limitations ... bang ... yer there.
If you insist on making everything "perfect" ... with less than perfect parts that were assembled as a whole ... guess what ... now ya got some explaining to do.
It's probably the hinges.
Either bend the "factory straight" hinges to now meet your "remodeling world" plumb and level jamb ... or it's all gonna be cocked and never give you the right reveals.
If he set the door from the get-go using the reveals as the guide instead of the levels ... it's already been installed to "near perfection" ... while being as crooked as the second install.
I install doors all the time that aren't perfectly plumb/level/square ...
It's called remodeling. They gotta fit the opening and do their job.
Bet ya couldn't pick one out of a line-up though .....
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Thanks to all of you that replied.
I am pretty certain the problem stems from a cranked hinge. When I get back to the job, after the Thanksgiving holiday, I'll try swapping the bottom hinge with the top one. That'll probably do it.
By the way, here is something I remember from my time at Therma-Tru. The price paid by Therma-Tru for one hinge like the ones seen in the typical prehung exterior door (4 x 4 x .094 leaf) is about 50 cents. Plain steel, stamped, cut, barrels rolled and end-cut, swaged, plated with a yellow-dyed zinc dichromate (to look like a brass plate), then lacquered. One three-knuckle leaf, one mating two-knuckler. Pin and screws included. Half a buck.
Some folks make a major production out of a simple process. For a door to look right, that means the margin or reveal is even. For it to operate correctly it should open and close freely. When you shut the door there is that solid kachink, when it makes full contact with the strike or weather strip. No pushing, lifting, or rattling. It should work effortlessly. Spending all that time to make useless measurements only to find the door rubs or does not fit evenly within the jamb is nuts. I'm talking standard pre hung interior or exterior doors. All the work has been done at the factory. I'm not saying slam bam it, but don't milk it either. The pre hungs come with margin spacers attached to the door, could they make it any easier? If it's level, plumb, evenly spaced, and working what else is there? It's almost impossible to screw it up unless you take the door out of the jamb and rely on levels, squares and measurements to get the jamb "perfect". If somebody starts whacking my Baldwin solid polished brass or any other hinges to tweak a poorly hung door they'd better be ducking. Not really, I'm not violent, I would gladly explain and demonstrate the correct technique after I ranted for a minute or two. I might dock their pay for the bashed hinge though.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Welcome to the world of boogerin'....I'll let the trimmer instruct you.
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Edited 11/20/2004 11:13 pm ET by blue_eyed_devil