I’m sure this is easy for some and I think I’ve got it worked out but if anyone could confirm that would be great.
I’ve got power coming to a ceiling box (for a light) from there it goes to a plug but also to a second light then down to the switch. Unfortunately I’ve only done this with a single light so am at a bit of a loss.
Power goes to light, then black connects to white painted black to the switch and black back to black at the light to close the circuit.
So how do I add that second light in the circuit so the switch turns both on at the same time? What I’m thinking is I use 3 wire from first light to the second. White power at light 1 becomes red power to light 2. Leave white painted black to white painted black at the second box then down to the switch. Return black to light 2 and on back to light one to close the circuit.
Or is it possible to simply put the light (#2) in the white painted black loop? If it is, does it go in the white or black on the light first? Electrical is not my strong suit, usually call in Dad (he’s the electrician) but he just moved house and is tough to get a hold of right now.
Replies
technically you don't put the lights in series. you put them in parrellel.
the blacks from both lights are connected together, the whites are connected together.
the power from the switch is connected to the blacks from both lights.
you sheould get a book on electricity
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
OK spoke to Dad, and I had it close I should preface by saying this is a remodel so I'm making do with what I have in some cases (Dad said it was wired a#% backwards, oh well). Power comes to the light first (light one) yes I am wiring in parallel (forgot you use those terms are used in electrical) Going to use a 3 wire between lights Black feed(light 1) to red, to switch (from switch it's white painted black to black of light 2 and black of light one. White from light to light to the feed. Thanks guys, bobl I do have a book just not a very good one, got me started but not eough detail.
Edited 11/28/2005 8:54 am ET by Ribs
The Black & Decker wiring books are surprisingly good. They have several 3-way switch layouts in the intermediate one.
I haven't had my coffee yet so I'm not following you entirely... is the outlet also switched? The simple answer is that the second light must be in parallel, not series with the first. IOW, just wire black to black etc for the second light. If that doesn't answer the question let me know and I'll try to unfuzz my eyes and brain.
PaulB
Make syre you install plenty of smoke detectors!!!!
Why do you need three wire? It sounds like it already works the way its wired (nothing wrong with the hot going to the light first). Just add your new light and hook it parallel to the existing light. First ground then hook the new common to the existing common then the new black to the black cluster that should have the one white to the switch in it.
> (nothing wrong with the hot going to the light first).
Actually, it's a code violation. With the switch off, hot is supposed to stop at the switch, leaving the lamps and switch leg at the neutral rather than hot potential.
As for wiring lights in series, I'm not sure if code addresses that. Back when I was in college, we had a couple can lights in the hallway outside our apartments. I snuck up in the attic and put them in series, thereby saving the price of a dimmer. ;-)
-- J.S.
Not saying you're wrong, but where in the code does it say that? I'd be interested in reading it. Usually I always run the hot to the switch first but sometimes its not the best way. I've never been called on it.
The way I suggested the lights will be parallel not in series. If they were in series when one burned out they'd both go out.
BTW how did hooking two lights in series save you a dimmer?
Edited 11/28/2005 8:10 pm ET by MSA1
> Not saying you're wrong, but where in the code does it say that?
I had to get the book out and look it up. It's 380-2 a) and b) in the 1996 NEC. Per the little code check book, switched or fused neutrals have been disallowed since 1930, but they don't give the code numbers. You find those, and "California 3-way's", in older buildings.
> BTW how did hooking two lights in series save you a dimmer?
Two lamps of the same wattage in series form a voltage divider, so each one gets a nominal 60 volts. It's a one level take it or leave it kind of dimming. All of us on that floor liked the dim version, so we went with it. I'm not sure if dimmers were a whole lot more expensive in 1970, but we sure had a lot less money then. ;-)
-- J.S.
Gotcha on the lights. As far as the neutral switching goes, thats not what I meant. It was a misunderstanding. I'm aware that you dont switch the neutral, I was referring to simply bringing the power to the light "box" than to the switch.
Thanks for taking the time to look it up though.
Ah, yes. Power to the light's box and dropping a switch leg is perfectly kosher.
-- J.S.
" (nothing wrong with the hot going to the light first)."If you mean that the cable with the power goes to the box with the light fixture first and not to the box with the switch then you are connect.If you mean that the power cable goes to the box with the light fixture and the black (hot) is connected to the black on the light fixture and the white on the light fixture is connected to one side of the switch leg and the other side of the switch leg is connected to the neutral on hte power cable - THAT IS A BIG NO NO TO USE TECHNICAL TERMS.That is a switched neutral. The problem with is that with the switch off the center contact of the fixture is still hot. Even worse, if a bulb is in place then the shell of the socket will be hot also. And that is easy to touch when replacing a bulb and if the fixture is newer it will be grounded.And don't say, but you won't have a problem if the bulb is burnt out. Many fixures have multiple bulbs. Only one needs to be good for this to be a problem.
Now I see what John meant. I did mean the hot to the box first, not to the light. I should have been more clear on that. I know you switch the hot and not the neutral.
Thanks for clearing up the confusion.
Pretty sure my solution with the 12-3 avoids running the hot to the fixture first. Black at the farthest box (the old one) will connect to Red which then connects to black at the box closest to the switch then black (12-2 wire) to the switch (Hence hot goes to the switch). Neutral goes to the light (old box) and the white wire of the 12-3 to the closer light. 12-3 black goes from farthest light (black wire to closest light black wire). Connect white painted black from black wire at the light to the switch. I think this will work but don't know if it violates any code. Also don't know if I'm leaving anything hot that shouldn't be.Thanks for the help
I know it is not the best solution but if you have a switched neutral would you not be better off to wire the fixture with the hot wire going to the black fixture wire (center conductor)? That would eliminate the hot bulb base I think. I found one and it is very impractical to get to the j-box location to correct it as it should be. Wrote note in fixture and box at fixture about switched neutral and what breaker to turn off.
> would you not be better off to wire the fixture with the hot wire going to the black fixture wire (center conductor)? That would eliminate the hot bulb base I think.
Actually it wouldn't. If hot runs to the tip and the neutral is switched, the shell of the base is at the full 120 volt hot potential. The filament is just a piece of wire. For a typical 100 watt bulb, it has a cold resistance in the neighborhood of ten Ohms. (That, of course, goes up to a nominal 144 Ohms when it's at working temperature, about 2800 Kelvin.)
Try a voltmeter reading between the shell and ground with the light off, you'll get 120.
Human skin resistance is way higher than the cold filament, in the thousands of Ohms, so if you touch the shell, you get zapped just a fraction of a percent less than if you touched the hot before the bulb.
-- J.S.
"I know it is not the best solution but if you have a switched neutral would you not be better off to wire the fixture with the hot wire going to the black fixture wire (center conductor)? "I am not following you.That is the way that it is supposed to be wired (as least that part of it).
I was talking about your post that a switched neutral would have the shell hot when the switch was off, maybe I misread it. As you unscrew the bulb the first little bit the center contact should open.
Yes that is the way it normally is. If wired correctly at the fixture it should not be as bad. What I was trying to say is if you have a blown or burned out bulb there should be no juice to the outer part of the base. And with a good bulb before the shell gets exposed the line voltage should end as soon as the center contact loses continuity with the center of the fixture.
" What I was trying to say is if you have a blown or burned out bulb there should be no juice to the outer part of the base. "You forgot that I mentioned that many fixtures have multiple lamps. With those I you need is one bulb that is not burned out to complete the circuit.
I have some where the shell is exposed with the light working. There's a gap maybe 3/16" wide by 1/8" deep. These are new, from HD.
-- J.S.
If I understand you, you simply want a second light fixture controlled from the same switch that controls the first fixture. The simplest way to do this is to run a suitable 2-wire-plus-ground cable (probably 14-2/wg, if that's what is used elsewhere in the circuit) from the first light fixture to the second.
At the first fixture you have a black and a white GOING TO THE FIXTURE (ignore the black and white wires that are wire-nutted together to go to the switch). Connect the black of your new cable to the black of the fixture (leaving the black from the switch connected so there are three wires connected together). Similarly, connect the white of your new cable to the white at the fixture, making it three white wires in that wire nut.) Suitably ground the ground wire.
The other end of the new cable should be obvious.
happy?
Should have explained better. There are no lights right now. There is a circuit going to two GFI outlets. They are wired with 12-2. I was going to use the same circuit to run the lights. There is a ceiling box left over from an old light where a new one is going. I think my mistake was not running the power directly from that box to the switch. I closed up the wall with a 12-2 wire running from the switch box to the light closet to the switch (not the old light) to the ceiling box where the existing circuit already is. What I was going to do is use the 12-3 between the light fixtures to run the hot to the switch and wire the lights in parallel using the other two wires. I still may be running things wrong (why I'm asking you guys) If the only way to do this right is run a new wire to the switch I'll do it but am looking for an alternative that doesn't require that.
If I understand you, having a 2-wire (plus ground) running from fixture to switch should suffice. If the juice comes in to the other switch box (the one without the switch wires) you'll need a 3-wire (plus ground) cable between the two fixture boxes. No need for a 3-wire to the switch.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
The juice comes to the other switch box hence the need for the 3 wire between boxes (as you said). Never intended running the 3 wire to the switch. Couple people mentioned something about a 3 way switch, there was never a plan for that actually.Thanks
I said "other switch box" above and should have said "other fixture box". I trust this didn't cause too much confusion.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
I know the whole post has been about as clear as mud.