Ok, now that we are ready to start construction in the next few months, I just had a discussion that pertained to the General doing the shell and we finish the remainder. Since I have done carpentry, cabinetry, painting and other interior finishing(electrical, plumbing, etc.), I’m wondering if it is really worth it. Do any of you guys have a good breakdown sheet for costing out these areas and to make sure we don’t leave some thing else. This guy has told us $65sq’ turn key and $35-$40sq’ for the shell.
And yes, I realize that caviar taste and locality does make a difference. Just trying to get the ducks in a row
As always, thanks in advance.
Replies
I built my house 99% by myself. I charged no labor for my time. After I was finish I could of bought a brand new house already built for 10k more. I just did not get the contractor pricing that other get at suppliers.
Unless you have all the tools of every trade you plan to do figure it'll cost about the same but take twice as long to get finished.
Sorry but to many times customers want to save money then show up to paint with $5.00/gal paint, a $4.00 brush and a $.75 roller cover and wonder why it looks so bad. If your going to do the work get the tools and when you have them don't ever expect to beat a man at his own trade, it'll take you 4 times longer and the end result may look like you did it.
Don't take this personally you may be the exception.
Good luck.
________________________________________________
Well, to the answer the tool part, I've got them all and in multiples and none of them say Craftsman ;~) Now, the interior becomes an issue, especially when it comes to cabinetry. I don't want the cheap trim or fixtures, just good quality and I don't want to pay someone else for the cheap stuff and get an O.K. installation.
After having 5 surgeries, I have given up most trade work, but I'm willing to deal with the pain for the next 4-6 months to save a little and get what we want.
The question I'm trying to have answered is if anyone has a "spreadsheet" or "checklist" to make sure we don't leave out hidden costs to be able to make a educated/finacial decision.
As to what BrownBagg stated, 10 percent is 10 percent especially when your budget is limited. To save 10% on a $150,000 job, that's $15,000 or about 230 sq ft at $65.00 per sq ft. That's the way were thinking at this time
Well, here is an html copy of CSI Catagories that might be what you're looking for.
SamT
Where will you be living while you build? How much longer will it take? I lived in an apartment. If building myself took an extra year, then I have to count the $700/mo rent/utilities x 12 mo against any savings.
I question if you'll be able to accurately account for the details of what goes into a complete house unless you've done that repeatedly and both made and learned from the mistakes. That's nothing against you and your skills, but a tip-o-the-cap to the people who do that daily. When I did mine, I was kinda surprised at how many things I missed--who ever thought I'd use $200 of viz-queen and $200 of blue and duct tape?!?! Know how many nails and screws are in the typical house? I didn't allocate enough for that either. Nor many other items that a pro would know from years of experience.
If you really want a sense of all that goes into each component, check out the RS Means cost estimating book. You'll see how they account for the labor v materials. But then you can also count on not doing each task as fast as someone who does it every day. So even if you get contractor discounts, as I did, it just doesn't make a huge difference in the scheme of things--at least not the difference that people dream of when they set out to diy.
Finally, you have to look at each hour you'd invest and see what else you could do with it. If you could make $25/h at your regular profession and you're hand-digging trenches to save a buck, then you'd be better off working for pay and hiring a laborer to do the trenches.
After my experience with my house, my advice has been that you build your own for the satisfaction of having built your own, and not be/c there are major savings to be found.
DW and self did 100%, nothing hired at all.
Accounting for inflation and pay rate of $55 hr in todays dollars, cost came to $36 sq foot complete, all carpet, finish, etc.
Since you mention being partially disabled/pain, the 18 hour overall days we put in with 2 small kids at the time and working full time jobs concurrently probably would not work for you - personally, would not be able to do the same at 60 as could do at 30.
Here's a rejected FHB submittal with details if interested.
I've seen it before I think, but I love that door.Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
Where will you be living while you build?
Remember, if you build a house and live in it for 2 years, all your labor and the capital gains are TAX FREE! A big incentive. Added a couple rooms to a rental that son lived in at < 50% market rent (then it counts as you living there) for 2 years, $40K clear profit for < $2K invested, for about 150 hours time .
IMHO, anybody starting out in this business should take advantage of the 2 year provision.
This rule only applies to your principle residence. YOU have to live there not your son.
I'm thinking of a building without a COO that you can't live in. That means you're living somewhere else, and there's an opportunity cost to the money used to rent or own that other place. So if it takes a year longer to make the place habitable than it would by hiring it all out, that year's rent is part of the "cost" of diy. If you can have the place you're building as your sole residence, then this doesn't apply.
There was a thread here a while back, and as I recall there was a general consensus that the electrical, plumbing, and trimwork (provided you possess the skills and tools) and GC chores (provided you have the guts, communication skills, and patience) are the ones that have the highest $ savings....when compared to excavation, foundation/slab, framing, roofing, rocking and taping. Idea being that you'd be way ahead dollar wise by contracting out the second group.
That's the mix I'm attempting. They dig the hole today.
migraine,
Don't let anyone here discourage you. I did the same thing when building my 1300 sf detached garage and will be doing the same this year on our 3000 sf house (starting with 1000 sf) It sounds like you're allot like me- I'm fully capable and equiped to perform all framing, plumbing, electrical, roofing, tile, painting, cabinetry and finish carpentry myself. When I say myself, what I mean is almost always having a helper. Sometimes it just means an unskilled extra pair of hands hold stuff, pass materials, etc.
As far as jobbed out trades, I have a mason for all the foundation, flatwork and brickwork. Stucco and drywall are also farmed out. Here (So. California) it just doesn't pay to hang your own drywall. There may be a couple of other small things like hot mopping the shower pans, seamless gutters, etc. I'm also going to hire carpenters to do all the roof framing- if you're not comfortable walking plates and rafters, let someone else do it.
The important thing is to get help when you need it. Granted, the whole process will take a lot longer than a job that's run smoothly by a capable GC, but in my case, doing it myself is the only way I can afford it. Plan your weekends wisely. I usually take Fridays and/or Mondays as vacation to get more consecutive days of construction. In the off days, take very careful inventory of the tasks and materials needed, so there is no down time running to the lumber yard.
Anyway, to answer your original question, I built my custom 1300 sf detached garage with upper story office/gym for right around $38,000. So, that's about $30/sf for a "shell". Here are some specifics on my "shell":
- 6" slab, 10' plates
- Small utility room with laundry sink, toilet and shower
- All wiring with flex conduit, and metal boxes- NO ROMEX!, outlets every 6', 120 lf of strip flourescent lighting.
- All walls insulated and drywalled (5/8" and painted)
- All windows trimmed, and baseboard.
- Automated roll-up door (loading dock style) 8' high.
- Two-tone stucco exterior.
Good Luck!
Yeah, that's what I'm looking for. A good estimating sheet. Any help there??
I'm don't think this is exactly what you're looking for, but it's got some good info that might help you:
http://www.va.gov/facmgt/cost-estimating/
This is a book/CD combo. I don't have it, but the CD comes with pre-made cost estimates.
http://www.craftsman-book.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/cbcstore/prodpages/info/ewe/chp01.htm?L+cbcstore+hkvm3278
There are also software packages out there like these:
http://www.builderplace.com/RemodelCost.htm
http://www.cprsoft.com/homecost.htm
Hope that helps,
Andy