OK, I just need to blow off some steam. As I’ve been moaning here, I’m in the market for a new full time guy. So, I’ve called every tradesperson I know, placed ads in Craigslist, the state Job Bank, you name it. I also downloaded some resumes from the state job bank, theoretically people that are either unemployed or eager to find a better gig. Downloaded about 10 resumes, called and left messages. Only 2 called back, here are essentially the conversations:
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“Hello, Joe? Yes? My name is PaulB, I got your resume from the CT job bank… let me ask you first off are you still looking for a job? ‘
Well, maybe…
OK, let’s see… are you currently employed?
No
So, you are interested in finding a job?
Maybe, depends what it pays
Well, I’m a remodeling contractor in New Haven (about 30 minutes away)
No way, that’s too far to drive”
No questions about pay, etc…just too far to drive
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Next call:
“Hello Tom? My name is PaulB etc etc etc… are you still looking for a new job?
Well, I might be… depends what it pays
OK… well, tell me a bit about your experience
What’s the job, and what does it pay? “
Turns out the guy is apparently a self employed “GC” and just tired of the rat race… he tells me he needs to make 75K a year. Don’t we all…
**************************************************************
Had two guys contact me from my ad in Craigslist, both sounded eager to meet. Discussed their experience, my needs, the pay. Both were interested enough to make appointments to meet at the shop, neither showed or even bothered calling to cancel.
Amazing… just plain amazing…
Maybe it’s me…I just don’t understand people’s behavior anymore.
PaulB
(Time to open the Wild Turkey)
Replies
I can relate.. i'd hire a new "me" in a heartbeat..no one wants to be in the same shoes I guess, so I Instead treat myself even more better everyday.
You are when you meet..yourself.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
if you were to hire me Id show up early ready to work hard for a fair wage . so dont give up guite yet .
Jeezus..... where are you? You're hired.
No way Brian... he's mine!!!
Ya really think his name is Jeezus Jones? LOL.. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
LOL. I missed that. Got your email.... searching for the right words. I did order some foam through Farmtek though, so thank you.
It might be. It takes a miracle to get someone new to show up early and ready to work
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
LMAO,,,are you aware there exists a band called Jesus Jones?..I was referring to that, but you got a good one in any how..LOL Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"I don't think it's funny no more" Nick Lowe.
When I was looking for a job, I thought it might be funny to put in my cover letter:
You should hire me because:
1. I get drunk only on weekends (if at all, sheesh, I hit 40 I can't remember the last time...but that's for another post...).
2. I've got my own vehicle & tools, and they're not stolen.
3. I don't have an ex-wife who will steal my equipment to pay for child support.
and best of all...
4. I own an alarm clock and I'm not afraid to use it.
Tim
(Time to open the Wild Turkey)
I'd say.
I'm sorry but I got a laf outta this so far.
Sucks.
Maybe you gotta start cruisin the local day labor pool. Some of those guys are ok.
Pick one that looks clean and speaks English.
It's Never Too Late To Become
What You Might Have Been
[email protected]
"Maybe it's me...I just don't understand people's behavior anymore."
I feel for ya.....FWIW. Same deal here. I need help badly and can't find anyone with the combination of a working brain and a willingness to actually work/learn....let alone anyone with some developed applicable skills.
All they wannna know is "how much does it pay"? Then they expect to get paid for just being on the premises......with their hands in their pockets.
ARGH!!!.........and bye-bye. Next???
I don't know exactly how you feel but let me shed some light from the other end of the tunnel for you...
I am a finish, custom, and cabinet carpenter and for years I prayed for that select group of General Contractors who saw quality and dedication when they saw it.
5 years ago I met one and it has been a joy to work on his sites.
He gives me steady work and I give him peace of mind and timely work,
If I could line up a few more I could lower my HO percentage of work and quit the HO education program I seem to run.
He and I share a comman belief in God as well as many of his other subs. I know the previous trade looked out for me which really cuts down on the headaches and I look down the line to help others.
I hope this gives you a little peace in that skilled, dedicated people are out there.
If I ever move to Ct. I be sure to let you know.
Mike
" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
I employ a couple of guys, and I know it's hard to get good ones. But in your situation, sounds like if you had hired any of those particular prospects, you'd be here complaining about your new hires, instead<G>You interview them, they interview you. If someone doesn't show, I usually feel lucky that I didn't waste any more time on them.And, never take on a job you couldn't do by yourself (or with subs, think about that), and charge accordingly.You're making work sound like... well... like work LOL "what's in a name?" d'oh!
Your experience is pretty common, actually, and its like that across the employment spectrum; construction is not unique in this. This is one of the primary reasons many large companies in all sectors constantly run 'help wanted' ads even though they don't have any specific openings; they want to build up a bank of candidates they can start calling when somebody gets launched or walks out.
I haven't had to hire a new carp in years, but when I need to hire a helper, it's the same rag. Me: "You looking for work?" Him: "I dunno. Whatcha offerin'?"
When I ran a graphics studio in NYC back in the 70s and early 80s, I experienced the same kind of thing whenever I needed to hire a new artist or typographer or bookkeeper. The only time I got decent response or follow-up was when I advertised for free-lancer paste-up artists. Free-lancers would come crawling outta the woodwork and swamp the office if I let them.
Today, in small-outfit construction & remodeling, it is so difficult to find decent labour because most of the guys we want to hire are doing the same thing as us: running their own small businesses, working for themselves.
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
I just can't picture you living in NYC dude.
I just can't picture you living in NYC dude.
Picture me riding a bicycle right up the middle of Madison Av at rushhour passing busses with an inch to spare, wearing a three-piece suit....
Dinosaur
A day may come when the courage of men fails,when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship...
But it is not this day.
I dunno Dino. I ran a largish (16 people avg) commercial photo lab and never experienced anything like this. Just the whole attitude... I can't imagine making an appointment and then stiffing the person, especially when you know they're coming in to the shop in the evening to accomodate your work schedule. Or running a job wanted listing and not pulling it if you're off the market, or at least responding to an inquiry if you're still looking. Not to mention the whole concept of "what's the pay" as the first question. Maybe I'm older than I thought I was...
PaulB
Paul,
I hired a new guy 3 months ago that is working out fine. I did something different this time that seemed to work well. I went through a temp agency. They pre-screened and set up the interviews in their office at a time that was good for me. I gave them a list of what I would consider and we went over their list in advance to calling and setting up the appointments.
I had 4 interviews scheduled and had one no show of the four. I hired Larry. I am paying Larry through the agency for the first four months and that cost me about 1.30 an hour premium but if I don't like Larry one phone call and he is gone. No problems, no grief, no attitude, just gone. I also don't have to deal with my WC rate spiking due to Larry's salary if I choose not to keep him because the comp goes through them and is an expense on my end not a salary.
They ran a police report, drug screen and I got to check his driving record for my insurance company all before he started. He is doing well and I think we will keep him on permanently now but I am glad I used this service and will do so again. Just something to give some thought to. DanT
If I don't find someone within the next couple days, that's gonna be my next strategy Dan, thanks. Another quite large GC friend of mine suggested the same thing, I had always assumed the "premium" for going through an agency was very high. A while back I had hired someone through an agency for real basic data entry and I was paying a rediculous amount. Anyway, one way or thother I'm gonna find someone (sounds more like my dating life than my working life ;) )
PaulB
Paul
I feel for ya!
I always get a kick out of the people that want to know first and foremost, "what does it pay". Forget that they don't have a job, don't have any experience, desire to work...........
I don't remember as a kid(teen years) ever asking how much money will I make. I just wanted to work, hell if they screwed me I knew better then to go work for them again.
I always preached to my kids, don't matter where you work, McD's, laborer, used car salesmen, whatever it is, get to work on time, work hard and do a good job, you'll never have to look all that hard for the next job.
Doug
I was raised the same way Doug, but sadly I am really starting to believe that more and more that whole mindset is disappearing. Now I think it's more a matter of "what's in it for me".
I hear you! I'm in CT too. Mostly I work alone, and sub out the electrical, etc. Recently, the project was a master suite redo...second floor, 1000 sq ft, over finished space. The roof was trusses, and they wanted a catherdal, so it was a total gut, including the roof.
Of course, I couldn't put a 30 foot lamy ridge in myself, or 20 ft 2 x 12 rafters, so I ended up with a guy I was assured spoke english and was a good worker. Well, he DID show up at 8:30, and leave at 4:30 or 5, and he WAS strong...but English??? As i look at the work now, he either didn't understand, but knew how to nod, or didn't care.
We got the roof up and shingled an hour before we got 13" of rain, so I was thrilled, but I was working 12 -145 hours straight...and I am disappointed that no matter how many times I said "Nail here" and drew a line, he forgot, and I have a nails poking thru my beadboard decking between the exposed rafters...grrrr, among other things. Oh...saw operation? Nope. Just a blank look. I wasn't brave enough to attempt to train, so I climbed alot! He was steady, but slow...even by my roofing standards, LOL.
All for over 20/hr.
Sometimes I think it's better to just work longer hours, than it is to have a helper, work normal hours, thinking it's all fine, just to have issues crop up later and ....work extra hours, LOL.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Paul,
I work on the other end of the business - mortgage lender, including C-P loans - and we get the same sorts of things.
Here's just one story: We picked up a young lady straight out of college last year. Seemed bright, decent grades etc. etc. She was to start processing loans for me and thus learn the business. Now let me say this: I work for a commission. She worked for a set amount per loan processed ($500). For both of us, if the loan doesn't close, there is no payment.
Loans are time-sensitive. Closing is supposed to occur on a given day at a given time. Sometimes, that doesn't happen, particularly in the non-conforming world, but that is another story. Crunch time generally happens at the end of the month, since everyone wants to close their loan on the last business day of the month.
In her first month, I overlooked the occassional long lunch or late start or early exit. Heck, if she's getting her work done, I don't really care, it's not an hourly position. In the second month, I did have to discuss how many long lunches she took and when she took them. We also had a discussion about showing up with a severe hangover and a total lack of sleep while smelling like the inside of a beer bottle (hey, I like a beer as much as anybody; I just don't drink 36 of them on a Tuesday night). In the third month, she began complaining about the money - I explained that she was getting on the job training and, in a couple of years or even less, she could start working as a loan originator - just as soon as she knew what the hell she was doing, how to structure a loan, how to comply with the various state and federal requirements, make a loan salable to Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac etc. In the fourth month, she came to me the Friday before the final week of the month. Said her mom wanted to take her on a trip the next week and she'd miss the last three business days of the month. Not gonna happen, I said. Yes it is, she said. If you don't show up Monday, don't bother showing up again, I said. See ya, she said. This girl, straight out of a less-than-stellar college was on pace to make about $60K her first year out of school and she just couldn't be bothered putting in the time. She could have been making well into six figures within 3 years. Couldn't be bothered.
It's long and rambling, but the point is that it doesn't matter what the job is, some folks consider work to be a momumental inconvience.
Jay
It's true, the "work ethic" is getting to be an urban myth... you have to wonder who's gonna get anything done when we've all had it and are sipping our beers on a beach somewhere. OK... maybe sipping our beers in the basement, but you get the idea.
PaulB
Ironic, when my business was suffering a while ago, from a lack of work due to a massive influx of "tire kickers & people who don't understand", I applied to a nunber of firms, the majority response from looking at my past work was "Sorry, overqualified". One firm, a very high end remodeling firm tossed an offer of $11.00/hour for "an experienced carpented with at least 10 years of work experience".JoeFRenaissance Restorations llcVictorian Home Restoration Serviceshttp://www.renaissancerestorations.com
I hear ya Joe, there's no question that there's plenty of blame on both sides of the employee/employer relationship. I just don't quite get how we changed from an atmosphere of each side respecting what the other contributes to the equation to one where it's all about what can I get from the other for the least amount of return. How little work or initiative can I show to earn enough for my needs or how much blood can I squeeze out of someone before they become a disposable commodity?
It's not how I was raised or how I've ever conducted myself. For 25 years I ran a profitable, well respected business that one more awards, literally, than I had wall space to hang. Must've had easily a hundred employees over the years, and I had one...ONE... up and quit out of the blue on me. I treated them as valued contributors to the firm, and they treated me as a respected employer. I have people that worked for me 15 or 20 years ago look me up to tell me they still think about their time with my company fondly. But maybe those days are becoming outmoded. I hope not, for everyone's sake...
PaulB