Is there a trick to uncoiling a 60′ roll of 1″ copper flex tubing so that it lays perfectly at the bottom of a trench? I realize this may be easier to accomplish when the temperature is warmer rather than when it is cold.
I was alone so I drilled a 1 1/2″ hole in a 2×6, put the end of the pipe through the hole and sweated a tee fitting on, then clamped the wood to a solid post, and slowly uncoiled the pipe.
I also found that the last 10′ of the coil had an elliptical shape to it so that it was impossible to put a coupler on it. I ended up heating the end with a mapp gas torch until it was red hot, put a coupler on it, and then hammering the coupler home. The copper was soft and quickly conformed to the shape to the coupler.
Replies
Rolling out soft copper can be a pain.
A trick I learned many years ago was to use alot of pressure in the pipe & I mean ALOT not very safe but you hit the roll with 1800psi from the co2 bottle & straightens out PDQ.
Let me add again NOT VERY SAFE
"There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov
Sounds like fun! Reminds me of playing with M-80's as a kid - LOL.
Sounds like we like to check gas cans with cigarette ligthers also!
LOL
Bout every 2 yrs it seems I have to wrestle a 2" 60' roll of type "K" soft copper.
That stuff is just a royal pain in the azz
It's never round where ya need it to be
It's always got some twist in it going the wrong way
Bout 12yrs ago a plumber that was workin for me goes "Here let me show ya this" he grabbed the co2 bottle out of my truck brazed a cap on one side adapter on the other.
Took the 120psi reg off the bottle hooked it up to the adapter, & pow
looked like he just electricuted a snake or somethin
co2 bottles when full = just under 3000 psi
right after the pipe straightend out ----- there was this little pop sound like a 12 gauge goin off.
Blew the cap off , it wiped out about 6 fence boards & a rodi plant.
No one got hurt ----WOO HOO--- rather be lucky than good anyday of the week.
"There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov<!----><!----><!---->
"there was this little pop sound like a 12 gauge goin off."
I am dieing to know what you think is a big bang. I always thought a 12 guage was a pretty loud boom rather than a pop lol. DanT
Not to highjack the thread which I've been guilty of on more than one occasion.
A big bang would have been real early in my career.
Had a fuel tank 15,000 gal unleaded that would not hold prime.
needed to install a check valve at the top of tank
I was in a 6' wide 6' deep man hole cutting the 2" iron pipe
Hack saw was too slow
I grabbed my portaband---- cause I knew I never created a spark with blade to pipe contact --- so I proceeded to cut
Then out of the corner of my eye I noticed the armature of the motor makin that pretty lil blue arc
hhhhhmmmmmm I'm in a 6 x 6 hole with 3' open sittin on about 11,000 gallons of unleaded.
Do ya think I could have made it to the moon if I set it off?"There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov<!----><!----><!---->
That's a horrible story. You would have been spread in a thin film for miles. Everyone would have had to turn on their windshield wipers and use up a lot of wiper fluid.
I like the part about the electrocuted snake, though... that's a good image.
What kinda CO2 tank you got?
We mostly get the small ones and they are only good for 1800 psi plus 10% if on a current hydro.
My 80 cubic foot alum. scuba tank is a standard 3000 psi fill. Umh, wonder if that is enough volume for 120' of 1" soft copper..... <g>
Dave
My CO2 tank I have now is an 1800 pounder
The one that we had then----- I'm not sure of the official size but was bout the same as an 80lb acetylene bottle.
Had 2950 psi in it according to the nitrogen regulator we used on it.
Biggest problem with dive tanks ---- they don't have the volume most I think are about 90 cubic feet & it's still a gas verses being a liquid.
CO2 has more volume cause it compresses it into a liquid.
If my #'s are off on the dive tank I'm sure boats234 is going to correct me."There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov<!----><!----><!---->
Kinda reminds me of the technique of removing siding boards off a old barn demo by planting a large explosive in the middle of the barn and just picking up the boards afterward.
be Always wanted to see that done also.
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Amonium nitrate or sintex?"There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov<!----><!----><!---->
Got me. I'm trying to think who posted that. Junkhound maybe. Been a while.
be 4 years feels like just a few months ago.
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Well if it was junkhound I'm sure he could make a bomb out of booger snot & fartdust.
I get a kick out of guys more McGyverish than me."There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov<!----><!----><!---->
I did something like that with some 1 1/4" copper, not that much pressure, my air fitting came off. The air pressure that came out the end blasted some fine copper particles thru the skin into my forearm.
OUCH
I can't say I feel yer pain but in 2000' my apprentice could he cut off a 1/2" cap that had 100psi in it first the shot with the cap then all the shavings made his forearm & bicep look like he just got done hunting with the vice prez"There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov<!----><!----><!---->
I had about 300' of 650' in, at 120psi. Ouch !
wonder if the putting of 3000 pounds/in2 on the tubing damages it?
whats 1 in copper rated for?
Edited 3/20/2006 7:17 pm ET by edwardh1
Copper Tube Handbook: Table 5 - Actual Burst Pressure, K, L and M Copper Water Tube
Actual Burst Pressure*, Type K, L, and M Copper Water Tube, psi at Room Temperature
Nominal orstandard size,inches
Actual outsidediameter, in.
K
L**
M
Drawn
Annealed
Drawn
Annealed
Drawn
Annealed
1/2
5/8
9840
4535
7765
3885
6135
–
3/4
7/8
9300
4200
5900
2935
4715
–
1
1-1/8
7200
3415
5115
2650
3865
–
1-1/4
1-3/8
5525
2800
4550
2400
3875
–
1-1/2
1-5/8
5000
2600
4100
2200
3550
–
2
2-1/8
3915
2235
3365
1910
2935
–
2-1/2
2-5/8
3575
–
3215
–
2800
–
3
3-1/8
3450
–
2865
–
2665
–
4
4-1/8
3415
–
2865
–
2215
–
5
5-1/8
3585
–
2985
–
2490
–
6
6-1/8
3425
–
2690
–
2000
–
8
8-1/8
3635
–
2650
–
2285
–
* The figures shown are averages of three certified tests performed on each type and size of water tube. In each case wall thickness was at or near the minimum prescribed for each tube type. No burst pressure in any test deviated from the average by more than 5 percent.** These burst pressures can be used for ACR tube of equivalent actual O.D. and wall thickness.
"There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov<!----><!----><!---->
seems 3000 psi is close to the burst pressures? for 1 inch
Hard or soft?
BTW those are safe #'s
You can put more psi in there but the if it blows up you can't hold the CDA responsible for going over there #'s"There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov<!----><!----><!---->
6000# for 1/2" M. Amazing how much force is in a little frozen water.
Oh hel l yeah + when ya freeze the pipe it weakens it too."There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov<!----><!----><!---->
Our water service is 58 feet of 1" soft copper. I unrolled it directly into the bottom of the trench and it worked quite well, pushing the roll forward in front of me and keeping pressure downward at the same time. You're right, the last few feet are hard to make totally straight, and I have a 2' arc of that roll left to prove it. A pair of channel-locks and some careful pinching made the end round so I could sweat a fitting onto it.
Any reason you guys didn't use plastic? That is the common underground material in our area. I haven't seen cooper in a trench in years unless it is a DIY who didn't know about plastice. Just curious as I realize it could be a local code thing. DanT
Plastic?PVC or PE?I would use PE, but don't like the idea of PVC. Too ridgid and too many joints.BTW a local plumbing/HVAC company has a radio show. Does the first 10 minutes or so on a discussion of some common problem and then call ins.A while back he did it on service lines. The theme was better to spend a few dollars up front. He had to replace on line that the plumber used up all of his scrap tubing and the longest segement was 10 ft.
"I would use PE, but don't like the idea of PVC. Too ridgid and too many joints."
Hey Bill, what do you know, again you stick your nose in where it doesn't belong and make a statement that you obviously have no clue about!!
Plastic PE/IPS is the standard for direct buried, drilled well lines and PVC does not mean sections with couplings, you can buy it in reels for seamless installs.
I can buy it on 1000' reels with the wire already installed.
When copper water or HVAC supply/return lines are buried they use 10 or 20' PVC conduits glued with couplings for sleeves to protect the lines from damage and to make eventual replacement easy.
When are you going to fill out your profile so that unsuspecting people aren't being misled by a book worm with no field experience?????????
Engineers get the big bucks to plan it, we use the paper for spare TP in the porta-shed, then we make it work the way the way it should have been planned. Thats why we love Design-Build, cuts out the useless, overpriced middleman. No job has ever worked out the way it was engineered and we end up being responsible for as-builts anyways!!!!
Ease up Bigman.
Bill has been around a looooong time, and most of us know and respect him.
BTW, what is the upcharge fo cutting 200' off of 1000' roll of pvc? I can't even get them to do that with soft copper at my plumbing supply house. I have to buy a 150, 200, or larger roll. Same with PE.
Dave
Force of habit. In CA the water services I saw were all copper, hard or soft depending on the situation. Up here there's a lot of plastic. What I replaced was PVC. I've always considered that an inferior material for water supply. Some people also use PE, which I have no experience with. I just ran 3/4" PEX from a tee at the well to the shop.
I would like to see the CO2 trick done before I attempted anything like that. PVC is not allowed with potable water as it leaches chlorides into your drinking supply. PVC is commonly used in irrigation pipe, but should always have a backflow preventer between it and your potable water supply. Possibly CPVC, which is allowed with potable water, but I have never seen it in 1'' pipe.
After the cap blew off I don't think I'll ever try it again.
My post was more tongue in cheek just stating what happened in the past.
But take from that what you will"There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov<!----><!----><!---->
>>"But take from that what you will"
Bill, gets me to thinking (forgive me if this is obvious, I don't do a lot of lateral supply line), how about presurizing it to something more reasonable, maybe 100-150psi. Think that would reduce kinks in the pipe when unrolling?
BTW, I also can't stop laughing at the "electricuted snake" description. Paints the whole picture right there. You should take up writing. Yates would have some stiff competition. ;-)
"A job well done is its own reward. Now would you prefer to make the final payment by cash, check or Master Card?"
Hydrostatic at 100 to 150 psi would do alot better than air
Sand filled pipe would be best to keep it from kinking
When in a pinch we would fill 3/8" chrome supply tubes with sand when hand bending to keep them from kinking."There are about 550000000 firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is...........How do we arm the other eleven?" Yuri Orlov<!----><!----><!---->
My house is 750 ft off the road. I used 3 rolls of 2" PE. I can't imagine unrolling that much copper...
I can't imagine PAYING for that much copper.
That too!!
I have zero experience with soft copper but I've read all the posts and I have an idea on how to do it that may, or may not, be workable. If it did work it would make it easier to roll out the tubing and help prevent the oval shap from forming. Is it possible to pressurize the tubing to say 200 psi before rolling the tubing out and then start uncoiling the roll? The interior pressure would assist in uncoiling the roll and should tend to decrease the tendency for the tubing to form an oval shape while being uncoiled. The would think that the coil should easily hold 200 psi safely but wouldn't want to go any higher. This may be totally unsafe but as I said above, I've got zero experience with this material. It's just the physics involved that I'm thinking of. It should be easier to get the job done by not creating the oval tubing problems in the first place then to deal with it later.