I’m looking for a good low voltage undercounter lighting system. I’ve used those hockey pucks with the halogen lamps, but in my experience, the bulbs burn out all the time and cost $5/bulb to replace. I tried a rope light, not bright enough for task lighting. I’ve got whips going from the basement into the back of the kitchen cabinets so I can run low voltage wires. Any other suggestions.
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Kichler makes good ones. Xenon bulbs are used. Much cooler than halogens. Line voltage, no xformers required. Rocker switch on unit for hi and lo levels. Switchable, dimmable. Everything you want in undercab lighting for the countertop.
We've used them the last three jobs, and I have them on my own home, in use since '01.
I have to find some for replacing the ropes we noprmally use. One kitchen this summer used stainless steel countertops so the reflection shows the lights and it needs to look friendly on the eyes. Are these Xenon bulbs glaring?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I used these in my kitchen:
I can't seem to attach files any longer...
Anyone suffering the same?
Edited 1/7/2006 10:56 am ET by peteshlagor
When I hit the "attach files button," the button highlites and seems to move as I click on it, but nothing else happens...
sounds like time to restart PC
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Damn thing just did that automatically last nite!
Anyway's, in the meantime, I googled and found this:
http://www.lightbulbwarehouse.com/fixtures/accent.html
Go there and scroll down the page a bit and you'll see pictures of a guy holding said cable. He'll have two different type of bulbs - the festoons I'm describing as well as a small spotlight with the festoon base. These bulbs can be used interchangably in the same strip for special applications.
We tried to attach a couple of files several times last week and cannot get it to go through.
Go to Kichler's site and take a look at the units. They come in various lengths, with I believe one- to 4-bulb sizes. We have used the 2- and 3-bulb lengths. You'll see the nifty interconnects that allow a string to be installed, all wired together.
A frosted glass cover hides the bulbs from direct view, but highly reflective counters like SS and polished stone will allow any kind of undercab lighting to be seen in the reflection.
Any how's,
Mine is the xenon festoon bulbs version that simply clamps onto a two line 12 ga wire. Some are pressed on, others clamp on. The festoon bulbs have contacts on either end of the bulb and fit much like an older car fuse.
Yes, they're bright. Some people use these in jewelers cases and may have them every 2 to 4 inches along the line. Other applications such as under my wall cabs have 6 inch spacing.
The reflective glare into the granite top is most irritating to me when using the puck style of halogens. Same for these xenons, save for a nifty custom piece of crown I found.
This crown is mostly standard 2 1/2, mounted upside down to the bottom of the cabs, along the front (as you would expect). This crown differs from the common by one slice out of the back not being taken. This gives an extended (now bottom) edge that hides the glare from the xenon strip from being reflected into the granite and back into your eyes.
I just pulled the package of replacement bulbs and they're labeled, "THHC Lighting, T - 3 1/4 xelogen festoon lamp." Part # FT2410X (clear). They are 24 v, 10 watt little guys.
I love the effect they provide. A long smooth display of lite that glows the entire length of the cabs, rather than just whereever a puck lies. Far more effective than other under cabs I've seen.
A while back, FH had a story about installing similar lamps. They used a slightly different variation of the wiring, but the bulbs were the same.
I'll keep trying to get these files uploaded...
Pete,
If you can get your files working again, could you send a attach a photo of the under-cab lighting with the molding? I'd like to see it. Challenge seems to be cutting glare, yet allowing as much illumination as possible.
Thanks,
Marc
So I go and do a restart and nothing still will attach. Specifically, I don't go on to the next window where you choose the file to attach.
My other computer will work, though!
How's that possible? Do I have to reload the breaktime software?
there is no special softwae for here. I just had a lot of trouble loading threads until I rebooted. I trhink prospero is having troubl;e this weekend. Gunner lost his thumbs
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"I think prospero is having trouble this weekend. Gunner lost his thumbs"
Wow! The dangers inherent in a construction website!
Not wanting to hijack the thread, but if you don't get the 'Attach Files' pop-up dialogue window you likely have some kind of security software that is blocking pop-ups. Load any new software lately or do any playing around with security softeare like Norton? Or, if you are using M/S Internet Exployer go to the top of the window, click the "Tools" pulldown and then move your mouse down to "pop-up blocker".
Another test is: does the breaktime spell checker work? It uses a pop-up dialogue box too.
Other than that, please do a search here at BT - it is a very common problem and has been discussed at length at least 10 times.
Piffin: rebooting a computer is always a good first step for mysterious problems. Other than that, if you can give computer advice, I can size beams - OK? :-)
OK! reboot is my one size fits all applications first fix that works 80% of the time.what size beam do I need to hold this blasted arm of mine up in the air to relax my shoulder?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
1.75x 9.25 x 2 LVLs, 3 jack studs each end should do it for the 10' span. :-) Works 80% of the time! :-)
Matt: Ever heard of installing rope or other lighting in the undercounter cabinets with a switch on the door?
EMS
What was the over cabinet lights? Rope light. Nice effect.
jt8
"The test is to recognize the mistake, admit it and correct it. To have tried to do something and failed is vastly better than to have tried to do nothing and succeeded."-- Dr. Dale Turner
Edited 1/11/2006 5:13 pm by JohnT8
This next one shows the same but with overcabinet rope lights also on.
This shows a side view looking underneath the wall cabs.
First, notice the cable and position of the lamp holders.
Second, look carefully at the undercabinet trim crown. The bottom most part shows the earlier mentioned specially milled crown. This bottom extends just a little bit further to act as a lite shield.
Notice the next picture...
This is a shot from right in front of the counter, looking down into the polished Dakota Mahogony granite.
Notice the reflections of the lamps in the stone. Gotta look hard, cause they are all covered by the crown previously mentioned.
If you're able to really look close, notice the greyish whorl in the granite in the middle. You'll notice that there is no reflection from where one would expect one to be. That lamp is burnt out.
Now go back and relook at the overall kitchen picture. Looking at the undercab lights, you'll hardly notice that burned out lamp.
The other fellow posted a beautiful picture of his kitchen with the pucks. Very similar light color, but these festoon lights offer such a nice complete illumination of the entire area - especially way in the back of the corner.
I've got another place where I'm going to install these.
This is my recently completed poker room. Well, save for the undercab crown and these lights. You'll notice the black bundle of wire hanging down on the right.
As well as another shot of the room from the other direction...
As I complete this, I'll include pictures of the installation.
Yo Pete,
I'd love to see your pics but for me and most on dial up they will take WAY to long to DL.
Search for Ifanview and you can shrink those pics to 100k or so and everyone will be able to admire your nice work.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
One can achieve the same results by simply using Microsoft Paint, which comes in every versions of Windows operating system. Simply open the BMP (Bitmap) file, click Save As, choose JPG (JPEG) and you get a lot smaller image file that every computer running Windows or MacOS can open.
It appears as if my first post of this series did not load. We'll try again,
I went and retook the pictures and was able to upload them into the other computer. I then went to that irfanview website, downloaded and resized the picts (really).
This shot is looking at the kitchen from the other side of the room with the overhead cans on as well as the undercabinet lights.
Pete,
Your lighting looks great, but even on fast DSL those pix took a loooong time to load.
"I then went to that irfanview website, downloaded and resized the picts (really)."
You're halfway there. The trick is to save the files as jpeg, a format designed to compress the images for internet viewing. You are saving them as bit-maps (bmp), which does no compression at all.
Good luck!
Wayne
How about this?
The first shot is looking at the kitchen from the other side of the room with the overhead cans on as well as the undercabinet lights.
The next couple are various combinations of the overhead cab rope lights, the in-cab recessed pucks, and the undercab xenon festoon bulbs. Compare the different color output of the different types. And there is no breakup of light along the entire length of the overhead cabinets, as there would be in other fixtures.
Then we look underneath the cabs along the line of lamps. Notice the way the bottom of the crown goes to a sharp tapering point creating a shade. When I do the next cabs, I'll first lay a strip of hvac metalic tape on the cab before attaching the cable to keep heat less of a concern.
Finally looking into the polished stone. No bright reflective glare. That small amount along the front on the bullnose is the can light reflection off the glass doors of the cab.
But you can still see where the lamps lie. Note that in the middle of the picture, near the grey whorl, there is no reflection - that lamp has burnt out. I replace about 4 to 6 of a total of 35 each year. I suspect that's because the transformer may be oversized. Going back to one of the other front views, you can somewhat tell where it is.
I assume these are dimmable. Although they appear excessively bright in these pictures, in reality, the light level is perfect for whatever is done on these counters.
Perfect!!
Very nice cabs and good job on the photos![email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
This shot shows all of my cabinet lights lit - even the pucks installed inside the cabs and showing thru the glass shelves. I left the cab doors open for better visualization.
This is a nice shot to compare the output from each type.
That's nice.
Over the uppers is one of the few places I'm entirely comfortable with the hockey pucks. Part of that is that they are not visible that way. Part is because I can tip back to the wall with a wedge-shaped base or shims. I like painting the cabinet tops gloss white when ever there's lighting installed, too.
The rope lighting gives a nice understated look, though.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I've never seen pucks over. But your idea sounds like a nice alternative to indirect flourescents.
But your idea sounds like a nice alternative to indirect flourescents
Learned that one making applesauce from the provided apples. The pucks (especially the 110 ones) will dim nicely. The sometimes gaudy apperance of the pucks is obviated on the cabinet tops, and the very wide, if short, light cones from the pucks means being able to get that indirect light bounced right around the kitchen in a pleasant and useful way.
Also, unlike strip fluorescents up top, knick-knacks & the like can share the cabinet tops without necessarilly throwing garish shadows across the ceiling.
You also dont have to add yellow or orange to the gloss white top coat on the cabinets to try and 'warm' the fluorescent indirect light up, either.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Can the Kichler fixtures use halogens and/or xenons. Reason I ask is that the u/c fixtures I have look just like the ones on the Kichler website, I just can't remember if that is the brand(and I'm not at the house to look at them to see a name on them). Anyways, they still get quite hot, melted chocolate in the cabinet above. I'm wondering if they supplied me with halogen bulbs instead of xenon.
I went to seagull ambiance low voltage.
Very nice. dimable... frosted bulbs... no lightrail needed... long bulb life...
did I say very nice...
The Kichler fixtures use xenon only. Any incandescent bulb generates heat, and the halogens burn hottest. Xenons burn at a lower temp, but can certainly melt chocolate.
Either put your stash of chocolate up on the second shelf, or swap out the fixures for fluorescents. They burn cool enough so your M&Ms can melt in your mouth, not on the shelf. ;-)
I second the Kichler lights, we've been using them on our jobs lately also, nice low 1" profile disapears under most cabinets, and you can get them in white, stainless, and bronze.
I agree with Stinger. We have been using xenon type fixtures for better than five years now. Our supplier is NSL lighting. They have both the puck style and a bar style which have from 1 to 4 bulbs, depends on the length. No glare as they are covered with a frosted glass lens. HI-OFF-LOW switch, dimmable, no xformers, various finishes. Excellent product.
I replaced my low voltage "pucks" with 110v pucks and am glad I did. No more monthly bulb changes and the new pucks used the same screw holes under the cabiinets.
The only place I use rope lighting is for accent lighting in a cabinet or bookcase. Nice soft glow, but not enough light to actually do anything.
Rich, I too have used the puck lights under my cabinets, the trick to longer bulb life is to remove the tempered glass cover from the fixture, the bulbs will last 4-5 times as long. Its the heat that kills the lamps
We did this a few weeks ago, I'll see if I can find it.
The electrician doing our jobs is using a nice strip with xenon bulbs with a low/high swith and a nice swing down frosted glass lens.
Eric
Xenon Task Light
Self Contained Task Light Fixture
White, 2 Bulb-Hardware
17 1/2" x 4 5/8" x 1 1/4"
New! Hinged Lens
National Specialty Lighting
Architectural and Decorative Lighting
Hope that helps. My opinion these are very nice units.
Eric
[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Edited 1/8/2006 1:29 pm ET by EricPaulson
Here is a pic of what we use by Kichler. How different does it look from what you have? Same features, I believe. This one is the 4-bulb unit. The snake sticking out of the end is the interconnect, and the junction box. The romex feed is wired into the box, then interconnects are used to link up a string of them.
View Image
LED Crystal Lights
LED Crystal Lights
Bat Lights
Bat Lights
Ghost Lights
Ghost Lights
Skull Light
Skull Light
Pumpkin Light
Pumpkin Light
Subminiature Bulbs and Strings
Subminiature Bulbs and Strings
Icicle Lights
Icicle Lights
<!---->C-7 Strings<!---->
<!---->C-7 Strings<!---->
<!---->C-9 Strings<!---->
<!---->C-9 Strings<!---->
Light Curtain
Light Curtain
Chasing Subminiature Strings
Chasing Subminiature Strings
Net Light
Net Light
Fiber Optic Christmas Sign
Fiber Optic Christmas Sign
Landscape Luminarias
Landscape Luminarias
Chili Lights
Chili Lights
Candle Light
Candle Light
Twelve Pack
Twelve Pack
Nova Star
Nova Star
Holiday Light Accessories
Holiday Light Accessories
Marquee Light
Marquee Light
Leaf Lites
Leaf Lites
Xenon Task Light
Xenon Task Light
Xenon Mini Light
Xenon Mini Light
Xenon Step Light
Xenon Step Light
Xenon Wall Light
Xenon Wall Light
Xenon Brick Light
Xenon Brick Light
Xenon Picture Light
Xenon Picture Light
Brite Strip
Brite Strip
Brite Strip Fascia Extrusion
Brite Strip Fascia Extrusion
Cove Reflector
Cove Reflector
Micro LED Light Strip
Micro LED Light Strip
Light Rope
Light Rope
Light Rope Fascia Extrusion
Light Rope Fascia Extrusion
Light Rope Reflector
Light Rope Reflector
Aluminium & PVC Mounting
Aluminium & PVC Mounting
Halogen Mini Lights
Halogen Mini Lights
Galaxy Fiber Optic Systems
Galaxy Fiber Optic Systems
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Marquee Light
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Leaf Lites
Leaf Lites
Accessories
Accessories
Transformers
Transformers
Holiday Lights
Holiday Lights
View Image
XENON TASK LIGHT
View Image
Self-contained task light fixture, six colors and four sizes
View Image
View Image
View ImageCopper Finish coordinates with Copper fixtures and appliances.
View ImagePolished Brass matches brass and gold fixtures and appliances.
APPLICATIONS
UNDER-CABINET TASK LIGHT
WORK STATIONS
OVER-CABINET ACCENT LIGHT
LABORATORIES
DISPLAY CASES AND EXHIBITS
MERCHANDISING
INDIRECT ACCENT LIGHT
WALL UNITS AND BARS
XENON ADVANTAGES
Less relamping. 10,000-hour average bulb life of Xenon vs. 2,500-hour average bulb life for Halogen or Incandescent.
Does not emit harmful UV rays.
Produces less heat.
Considerably safer due to less pressure in bulb vessel.
Dimmable.
Handling or dimming bulb does not affect bulb life as in Halogen.
COLORSView Image WHITEView Image COPPERView Image BRONZEView Image POLISHED BRASSView Image ALUMINUMView Image BLACK
PRODUCT PACKAGINGView Image 1-BULB UNITXTL-1-HW/XX HardwireXTL-1-PC/XX Power CordView Image 2-BULB UNITXTL-2-HW/XX HardwireXTL-2-PC/XX Power CordView Image 3-BULB UNITXTL-3-HW/XX HardwireXTL-3-PC/XX Power CordView Image 4-BULB UNITXTL-4-HW/XX HardwireXTL-4-PC/XX Power CordView Image XEN-12-18WCLEAR REPLACEMENT BULB
FEATURES
Integral 12V electronic transformer in each fixture
Light, efficient aluminum frame stamped for 110V hard wire input
Thin 1.25" deep design hides easily under most cabinets
Fixture lengths:1-bulb: 9"2-bulb: 17.5"3-bulb: 26"4-bulb: 34.5"
Frosted glass diffuser with simple hinged push-to-open lens requires no tools to relamp
Available in 6 colors: Aluminum, Black, Bronze, Copper, Polished Brass and Powder White
10,000-hour average bulb life
Hi-lo dimmer switch
Bulb replacement has low voltage safety
Push-in connectors included for ease of power input
DIMENSIONS
View Image
BULBS
LENGTH
WIDTH
DEPTH
1
9"
4.625"
1.25"
2
17.5"
4.625"
1.25"
3
26"
4.625"
1.25"
4
34.5"
4.625"
1.25"
SPECS
Voltage
110V input to fixture via hardwire or power cord. Integral 12V transformer per fixture
Bulb Specifications
18W wedge base Xenon (1-, 2-, 3- or 4-bulb fixtures)
Average Bulb Life
10,000 hours
Fixture Finish
White or black powder coating; bronze, copper or polished brass anodized, or natural aluminum
Packaging
Individually packaged in 2-color corrugated box, J-rack compatible
Construction
Aluminum extruded frame with injection molded sides for weight efficiency and consistency of finish
Lens
Frosted glass. Hinged to aluminum frame.
Wiring Options
Hardwire or power cord options. Hardwire option can be parallel wired ("daisy chained") up to 1188 watts (66 bulbs). One wire between each fixture completes chain. No custom cord required. Check local code and NEC.
Agency Approval
UL listed and labeled, damp location
WIRING OPTIONS
View Image
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INSTALLATION AND OPERATIONAL FEATURES
View Image
View Image
Push-in connector
New, easier to use hinged lens design.
PRODUCT OPTIONS
BENEFITS
Sold in four fixture sizes at 9", 17.5", 26", and 34.5".
All sizes offered in six colors of White, Bronze, Aluminum, Copper, Polished Brass, and Black.
In kitchens, offices, laboratories, display cases and entertainment centers, Xenon Task Lights provide a bright task light source with a pleasing color temperature for detail work and vision needs.
Xenon technology allows the XTL to have half the heat output and four times the bulb life of similar Halogen fixtures.
UL listed for damp locations.
110V input allows fixtures to be interconnected with standard "Romex" wire up to 66 total bulbs per tap.
3-BULB XENON TASK LIGHTView Image
WORK STATION PHOTOMETRICSH=14"
Grid Location:
A
A1
B
B1
C
C1
D
D1
Illuminance in Footcandles:
22.4
15.8
47.3
31.5
62
42.1
46.5
32.6
KITCHEN CABINET PHOTOMETRICSH=18"
Grid Location:
A
A1
B
B1
C
C1
D
D1
Illuminance in Footcandles:
21.3
15.6
35.5
25.1
43
30.5
36.5
26.9
XENON BULBView Image
Home | What's New for 2005 | WarrantyCopyright © 2005, National Specialty Lighting Inc. All rights reserved.Disclaimer and Notice of Intellectual Property[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
They are nice units but at $140.30 EACH they seem a tad expensive for under cabinet lighting. How many do you use in say, a 3 feet section?
The ones we are using lack the interconnect, but you can buy a corded model and I guess you could interconnect with the zip cord?
We wire each unit individually as they are spaced apart quite a bit often.
Here's a photo of a recently completed kitchen I did where we used these fixtures.
I believe the lights may be on low in the photo.
View Image
[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Edited 1/8/2006 7:18 pm ET by EricPaulson
Beautiful work. I'm curious - for the ceiling lights, it looks like you used 6" cans instead of the 4" versions (which seem to be gaining popularity). What was behind your choice?
Just curious, as my kitchen is next, and I was just working on the lighting plan.
By the way, I fully concur on the choice of 120v xenon fixtures. I replaced all of the fluorescent undercabinet fixtures in my current kitchen when we bought the house two years ago. Huge improvement, and much cooler and less troublesome than the xenons in the last kitchen.
what about LED lights... I've seen em online they are kinda $$$ but i know they burn cool and last about forever... i don't don't if you can dim them or not and don't know voltage but i think they are pretty low? anyone know?
p
Beautiful work. I'm curious - for the ceiling lights, it looks like you used 6" cans instead of the 4" versions (which seem to be gaining popularity). What was behind your choice?
I'm out of the spec. The designer for the company I work for does that part. They're very standard and very low tech. That probably tells a lot about the company I work for. Not a lot of progression ocurring there.
Eric[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Nice kitchen... similar to one of the layout options I'm looking at for my project house. By chance to you remember what the space was between the wall cabs and the island? 36"?
I reversed it to get closer... hmm.. except the wall counter is about 5' longer, cooktop on wall (24" cabinet + dw between sink & cooktop/sink), and I didn't have the wall cabinet on the end.
Nice layout the way you've got it though.
jt8
"The test is to recognize the mistake, admit it and correct it. To have tried to do something and failed is vastly better than to have tried to do nothing and succeeded."-- Dr. Dale Turner
Edited 1/11/2006 5:14 pm by JohnT8
I'm sure that it was 36''. I think you can drop up to 4" off that but then things are getting tight. Depends how you use it, or think you will. Better off safe though.
So it sounds as though you don't have the "L" as this kitchen does?
I am confused as to how you described the rest of the layout, it sounded to me like there is a cab between the sink base and the dw?
I'm curious, what is this project house you mention?
Eric
[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
So it sounds as though you don't have the "L" as this kitchen does?
I am confused as to how you described the rest of the layout, it sounded to me like there is a cab between the sink base and the dw?
I don't have a copy of the current layout, but the attached gives you an idea. IIRC, the current one bumps the cooktop out with a 18" 6-drawer cabinet between it and the corner cabinet. The windows gets centered on the sink (a triple unit like in your pic, the difference being casement instead of double-hung). Island would be very similar to your pic. Walloven/microwave full height cabinet is N of the island. Pocket door leads to a pantry, swinging door leads to mud room then new garage.
I know in one of the versions, the cooktop got moved to the east wall which would have made it look even more like your pic. And I might have to steal that crown detail the way you're carrying it right over the window. And I do kinda like the end wall cabinet. Hmm...
I'm curious, what is this project house you mention?
I've got a crazy streak... which leads me to work on houses in my 'spare' time. The current one is a complete gut that I'd purchased at an estate auction a while back. Might even be habitable in another few months :)
Phase 2 of the current project house is to expand the living space into the attached garage (and then create a new attached garage north of the 'old' garage).jt8
"The test is to recognize the mistake, admit it and correct it. To have tried to do something and failed is vastly better than to have tried to do nothing and succeeded."-- Dr. Dale Turner
Gotta check the Outwater catalog. Start here ...
http://www.outwatercatalogs.com/outwater_archprod/lg_display.cfm?page_number=591
and then go to the bottom of the page and advance the "Go to page" link for about 20 pages of undercounter lights.
Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert ...