There was reference to ungrounded outlets in the recent issue of FH. I also have an old house and some circuits that weren’t involved in a major renovation remain ungrounded.A livingroom circuit now “tells lies” because the new outlets have an unconnected ground socket.
It was suggested to me that as long as it was not physically possible to use a 3-pin plug in the outlet – by filling the ground socket of the outlet with epoxy for example – then it would be okay not to supply a ground conductor.
Thoughts?
Replies
Rex Cauldwell and Cliff Popejoy are going to blow a gasket! I'm not a walking code book but it sounds bad to me. The only way you are going to get a grounded outlet is to run another wire all the way back to your panel to the grounding connectors. If you get one in your worries are over.
Have a good day
Cliffy
what is "old"?
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
Hey Tony,
Just for informational purposes and assuming no liability:
If you have an inspection department in your area you can get a definative answer there for your area (local authority having jurisdiction can modify NEC as they see fit) without giving your name. Just ask to speak to an electrical inspector and discuss with that person.
As far as the NEC code:
Look in section 250 for rules pertaining replacing two-wire receptacles where no grounding means exists. Basically, if you want to follow that code you can:
Replace non-grounding outlets with non-grounding outlets.
Replace with GFI type (must be marked "no equipment ground"). The GFI will trip as designed.
Replace with a grounding type receptacle if fed through a GFI receptacle. (mark gfi protected and no equipment ground) These labels are available from electrical supply and may be in box gfi comes in.
This is usually the easiest option, especially if you have several outlets-the labels are small printed and don't detract too much from appearance esp. as most will be covered with plugs or be behind furniture.
Replace with a grounding type receptacle if an equipment ground is run. ( I would think long and hard before beginning this project, unless you can easily get to all the wiring this is a lot of work.)
Be careful about modifying UL listed electrical equipment, even is seeming harmless mod-I know of one case where this was treated as an intentional negligent act in court and voided insurance coverage-even though the actual mod had nothing to do with the cause of the claim!
Hope this helps.
Not that I want to highjack this thread. . .I've seen several cases, were a ground did not exist, yet all the original wiring was run in metal conduit, that tied back to the panel and went through the slab on grade. In that situation, I've seen someone use copper wire that was attached to the metal junction box and then pigtailed to the wiring and receptical/switch. Is that an acceptable ground or should a GFI still be used else upstream?
IF the raceway is installed properly it is a less than ideal,but still acceptable method.If a coupling pulled apart during the concrete pour the ground path would be lost.It's always better to pull an equipment grounding conductor in the conduit.
Thanks IBEW Barry. I remember noticing someone doing this once upon a time and thought what a "potentially good idea/short cut" as long as it was safe. Nice to know it is albiet your caveats.
"It was suggested to me that as long as it was not physically possible to use a 3-pin plug in the outlet - by filling the ground socket of the outlet with epoxy for example - then it would be okay not to supply a ground conductor."
That will work, although I suspect that "technically" it is not to code.
You can get replacement non-grounded receptacles.
But there are other options.
1)If the wirng is in armored cable I(BX) or conduit then then that acts as ground and you can use a grounding receptacle by connecting a ground wire to the metal box.
2) Run a new separate ground wire to another box that has a ground that goes back to the main panel or directly to the main panel.
3) run a new grounded circuit.
4) Use a GFCI. You can either replace the receptacle with a GFCI or use a GFCI in an upstream receptacle. If you do this you need to indicate that although it is a grounding type of outlet that there is no ground connection. Labels for this come with most GFCI's.
Note that the tester will still show No Ground and that a GFCI tester will not trip the GFCI, but that self test will still work on the GFCI and kill that receptacle and any downstream.
However GFCI's should not be used for critical items like refigerator, freezers, or sump pumps. You need a real grounded circuit for those.
And while they can safely be used with computers and other electronics you don't get the full protection of any surge protectors that might be used.
Thanks all for listing better options. I didn't know that ungrounded (2 pin) outlets were still available - that's the easiest solution for me for livingroom outlets just used for lights.Who supplies these? - I haven't seen them in the usual home supply stores.CheersPS The house is from 1918, originally knob and tube, rewired 2 conductor in the early 50s, with many of these circuits replaced by me in the 80s during a major renovation.
Around here HD and Lowes both have them.And I am out in the subburbs where there is not that much older housing.If not any electrical supply house should have them.Here is on online source, but they only have them in packages of 10.http://doitbest.com/shop/product.asp?mscssid=84A4NWSK5NHL8H9VF613B16A63SLC6KE&dept%5Fid=1050&sku=530832And try a good hardware store. An ACE, TrueValue, or DoItBest store should be able to order them if they don't have them. Ask to look at there supply catalogs and they will be 5ft wide.
Who supplies these? - I haven't seen them in the usual home supply stores
Seems odd, I know the local Lowe's stocks Cooper no-ground duplexes. Have not needed to look in the local HD, but have found them in other HD upon need (like on a Sunday).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)