We’ve got some chimney top work to do, and it is expected to accumulate 10 inches of snow tomorrow.
What pitch roof will you walk in snow cover like that?
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depends what kind of snow and what kind of shingles under it
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4.5 pitch, wet snow, archy shingles, IKO Chateau. We're hoping it all melts off by next Monday, when we have the crane tentatively scheduled.
Bring a shovel and you'll be able to walk on the shingles and jacks.
blue
What jacks?
The jacks that you are going to set to keep from falling off the f******* roof!Quit hoping for a thaw and use the right equipment.Chicken ladder to shovel it off, then set the jacks and dropclothes
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffen,
do you REALLY think its a good idea to SHOVEL snow off of an already shingled roof?
( I have enough faith in you Piffen, to believe that you just missed the part about the roof already being shingled)
some of you other people really make me laugh sometimes. In the summer here on breaktime we get lectured on how osha requires us to work harnessed----and how could we consider working un-harnessed?
but NOW you all want to suggest what's the safest snow covered pitch you can walk?
Someone thinking ahead----would have tarped the area BEFORE the expected 10" snowfall--------making snow free access after the storm pretty simple.
I will leave the potential damage caused by walking all over frozen shingles to your own conscience.
Stephen
C'mon folks---you know even a frosted roof is an absurdly dangerous place to be.
Edited 10/25/2005 6:57 am ET by Hazlett
Agreed. We bailed off the copper 12/12 yesterday at 1030, slight drizzel, mixed in with some sleet. Even the chicken ladders get slick when wet. Solderd some gutter, added gutter screen, sno catchers and called it a day. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Its MINE, I'll wash it as fast as I want"
A roof that can be damaged just by walking on it cold has something else wrong with it to begin with.Yes I do shovel snopw off shingled roofs, but I see what you are getting at. I've had to repair so many damged roofs from improper shoveling by others that I once ran an ad in the local news paper out there adviseing people that they shoudl only have their roofs shoveled by experienced roofing tradesmen. I only shovel from top down, and I have an old AL grain scoop shovel that has the metal truned up so it never digs in. I don't hack and whack at the roof with a shovel either, just gently push the snow down.
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Piffin,
I am sure you have seen ridge caps crack as you tried to bend them over a ridge in cold weather.
and I am sure you have seen considerable flex in plywood OR osb roof decks on 24 " centers----especially when people walk on 'em
so---yes there is something wrong with most of the roofs built today----even before they are shingled.
I think that flex is MORE than enough to damage a frozen shingle----the damage may not be immediately visible---but I think it's there all the same.
I sure ain't perfect---but I think I put more effort into keeping foot traffic off of frozen shingles than I do in keeping foot traffic off of the more easily and visibly damaged HOT shingles.
I don't need the money bad enough to intentionally damage a customers roof.
BTW flex a really frozen shingle----its suprising how little bend you need to visibly damage a shingle----question is---how much damage is caused---before it's visible?
Best wishes, all---Stephen
OK, You point out things from the more shoddy construction practices i had forgotten about.We frame on 16 centers and use better sheathing than standard most places. Same out in Colorado due to heavy snow load requirtements.I always heated up ridge shingles before application on the top and never staep on them when working up there, even in warm weather.So the flexing support surface is far less of an issue for me over the past twenty years
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I am with you piffen-----most of the houses I work on were built in the 1920's.
Rafters 16" on center, 1x8 southern yellow pine sheathing----comparatively no flex
But the 7/16 osb over trusses 24" on center I see going up now???? plenty bouncy.
Glad I rarely have to work on that stuff!
Stephen
"But the 7/16 osb over trusses 24" on center I see going up now???? plenty bouncy"
In Québec in the 70s, it was code to sheet 24" o.c. with 3/8" ply!
Walking on those is scary. Feels like you'd punch through at any moment. I don't know what their code calls for now, but I hope it's at least ½" ply.
Edit: I see piffin has adressed that already.
http://www.costofwar.com/
Edited 10/26/2005 9:48 pm ET by Pierre1
shoddy construction
I wouldn't categorize 24" framing as shoddy construction.
I might categorize 16" oc roof framing with heavier plywood as wasteful though.
Someone's gotta save the owls.
blue
I'll let you save the owls - I'll save the furniture.The picture I had imnmiond with shoddier constructionm was 3/8" ply on trusses at 24" OC whichj I have walked on occasionally and been scared of. Even with 1/2" ply on 24" oc there is plenty of flex
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin, I framed the first new house I lived in back in 1978. It had 3/8" plywood on 24" oc trusses. It was a 4/12 roof.
I reroofed it back in 95. I put dimensional shingles over the original 30X asphalts. It looked fine and was fine and it still looks fine today. Occasionally I see birds walking on the ridge and roof and I never noticed any flex.
Roofs are not built to have people walking onthem. But, on the rare occasions that someone does, they hold up fine-even 3/8" on 24" oc.
I wouldn't hesitate to put 3/8" cdx plywood on 24" oc for my own home today if I could get the same four type that they used to ship. Potlatch was the best, but I think that mill ceased doing business.
blue
You've got me there!If you can let those birds walk on that roof the way you described it and not fear for their safety, then I'm all for doing it your way! Can't beat a testimonial like that.;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Haz, I don't think the shingle would be frozen underneath 10" of snow.
blue
would have tarped the area BEFORE the expected 10" snowfall--------making snow free access after the storm pretty simple.
We often do this when we expect a hard frost overnight. Flip the tarp off and we're ready to rock.Birth, school, work, death.....................
Stinger, you have to put the jacks on after you shovel.
blue
Watch out for the whole roof - or part thereof - avalanching you right off, esp. if it's a metal roof. A 5/12 metal roof will avalanche as the snow warms up, either from air temp/solar gain or from attic heat loss. After a few days, that 10" of fresh can compact into a shallower but dense slab that may avalanche in warm or cold weather.
A subsequent snowfall onto an older cold snow or ice layer is also subject to the same phenomena - the new layer may slide on the old, or both together if the snow to roof bond breaks.
costofwar.com/
Edited 10/24/2005 10:56 pm ET by Pierre1
"What pitch roof will you walk in snow cover like that?"
Zero.
Actually, even then, my first order of business would be to remove the snow. Just as it would be on any slope.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
What pitch roof will you walk in snow cover like that?
LoL! None, nada, nils, nichts. If we ever get 10" snow down here at 29ºN, I'd be building igloos, not roofs <g>. 'Course, 2" pretty much would paralyze things around here for about a week--that being a near record depth and all.
LOL, I remember how 2" would paralize Lubbock
No plows
No snowtires
No driving skills
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I remember how 2" would paralize LubbockNo plowsNo snowtiresNo driving skills
I want to say that they've actually changed some of that, now. Fianlly realizing that there are winter storms in the Panhandle, and like winter, they tend to happen every year . . .
Down here (it's 6, 6.5 hours, drive south of there), our Ultimate, Consumate, honest, record "event" is 2 point something (like 2.3") over two days. County was shut down for 4 days.
Sand trucks had to be sent in shifts down from Waco & points north. One of those hurry up & wait deals. First they had to sand the highway bridges to get the sand trucks down to the towns to sand the bridges and then the roads.
Dallas will get a decent ice storm about once every other year or so. Funny to see the emergency vehicles with their "ration" of chains--usually one pair per vehicle. Not sure there are any chains this far south, other than the ones the "transplants" have in the their garages.
One bad year here, my roomie & I took lawn chairs over to the medium main road to spectate at the Texas drivers on ice. Shoulda brought a bigger pitcher of warm potation <g> . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)