Hey Guys,
My house is finally finished, with the help of everyone here. You guys have helped alot and I’m compiling some photos of the various questions/projects I’ve asked here. I’ll get those posted this week.
Anyway, I’m getting my shop ready for the winter and wondering about whether I need to upgrade my garage subpanel which is currently a fuse box with 4 120v circuits and one 240v.
The fuse box is fed as subpanel from my main on a 60amp breaker. So far, this has been fine for what I need, usually my 220 dust collector (around 7 amps) and one higher amp 120 volt woodworking tool at the same time. I’m not crazy about upgrading the cable for the subpanel, so I think 60 amps will have to be the max.
I’m rearranging my shop and would like to add some outlets. Should I just tap in the the existing circuits and add the receptacles (within my local code of 6 per 20amp circuit). Or, should I take the time and add a circuit breaker subpanel and add my new outlets on a new circuit? (and get to add that other 240 outlet on the other end of my shop).
I’d be interested in anyone’s thoughts and the difficulty of this project, which if I do, will be inspected. Also, I don’t believe there’s currently a ground rod for the garage. I assume this would need to be added?
Thanks for any info!
Patrick
Edited 8/28/2006 9:32 pm ET by Corrib
Edited 8/28/2006 9:49 pm ET by Corrib
Replies
I'd tap off of the buss taps and add another sub-panel, simply to keep things organized.
Be sure the gauge wire is correct: the buss taps have 60 amp protection.
I've been given 2 opinions: the buss taps have to be rated for 60, or rated in accordance with the "main" disconnect in the sub, but only so long as it is within a "reasonable distance (18" often cited as "reasonable") of the first sub.
In my area, the code officials generally limit 60 amp service to 1 major app circuit and up to 10 110(120 to the purists) branch circuits
Fighting Ignorance since 1967
It's taking way longer than we thought
There's no compelling reason to upgrade the panel. Fuses are safe so long as you don't "cheat", so the only compelling reasons to upgrade would be to get more circuits or because you have relatively frequent overloads and don't want to be always replacing fuses.
However, if you keep the fusebox and install new circuits back to the box, leave a little extra wire length so that replacing the box later will be simpler.
I do occasionally pop a fuse, although it's usually due to my own stupidty more than anything else (feeding a board to fast or taking too big a cut with my planer). I'm also not sure of what the process would be to add to circuits directly to the panel (ie homeruns) with fuses. So, I'm thinking it would be the the junction box route if I kept the fuses. I need to add about four additional receptacles.
Well, I haven't checked the code to be sure, but generally you're allowed to place two wires on each breaker, and I'd think the same would be true for fuses.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
"Well, I haven't checked the code to be sure, but generally you're allowed to place two wires on each breaker, and I'd think the same would be true for fuses."GENERALLY you ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BE MORE THAN ONE WIRE ON A BREAKER.Contrary to what some building code inspectors and some home inspectors claim the NEC says nothing about this. This is strickly limited to the breaker labeling. IIRC both Square D QO and Homeline or so listed for the 15 - 30 amp breakers. And one of the cutler Hammer series.Others are limited to a single wire.And the breakers have plate against which a straight wire is clamped.My guess is that the fuse panel only has a screw terminal that the wire is wrapped around. If that is the case there would be no way to put two wires around the terminal.Even if it where allowed I don't see where it helps him. It is still one circuit and he is limited to 6 receptacles per circuit.Since one of the issue is pulling a new feeder that brings in another complication. Since this has a fuse panel I would not be surprised to find that it is a 3 wire feeder, without an isolated ground.
Edited 8/29/2006 8:33 am by BillHartmann
As Bill said: multiple taps aren't allowed by most breaker manufacturers, and code says yoiu always have to conform to the manufacturers' requirements.Multiple taps aren't uncommon in my area, and most the time both wires appear to be securely held (I tug 'em) but it is not uncommon for one to be loose - especially when they are different guages.And, of course, a multiple tap is a sign of amateur workmanship, putting the whole system under suspicion.
Fighting Ignorance since 1967
It's taking way longer than we thought
Thanks for the info. I did look around outside and was unable to find a ground rod for the garage. I'm not sure how to check if the box is wired with a floating neutral, but my guess is that it's not.
In addition to the ground issue, I started to look a little closer at the wiring, which isn't too bad, but the lights are all wired with plugs instead of direct. The best one here was a round box with a bulb that was connected with 16 gauge lamp cord!
Anyway, fixing the lights and changing over to direct wire is something I want to do, but the panel upgrade will have to wait until spring as I need a pro to install the panel.
Is it worth fixing the lights now or just waiting until the new panel is installed and I can put the lights on their own circuit?
Patrick
I am glad you plan to have a pro handle the electric. Now you have all winter to plan and prepare! For the time being, I suggest mounting several "keyless" fixtures (using boxes, of course), then putting compact fluorescent bulbs in them. These will give you lots of light, (a very good quality light, BTW), use little power, and work well in the cold. A shop is so much more enjoyable with good lighting! I made a pretty long post at "Fine Woodworking" about the electrical needs for a home shop. It might give you a few ideas....
(within my local code of 6 per 20amp circuit)
You have 4 120v circuits, meaning you can have up to 24 recepticals by you local code. That may be jusy 12 duplex recepticals, but should be adequate for a smal shop.
Just add on to your existing circuits by parralelling off a receptical on each circuit. I would try to place the new recpts. in locations that keep me from loading to much on any one of them at a time, but that may not be much of an issue. In my one man shop I can't run more than one power tool at a time, so I doubt I could ever overload a single 120v circuit from multiple power tool useage.
Dave
There is a need to upgrade... but not for the reasons you have.
Fuse boxes typically do not have a ground wire. Any 3-prong receptacles are probably improper, and not grounded.
Also, if the garage is separate from the house, it should have a ground rod (in addition to the one at the house).
One way to address the lack of grounding is to use GFCI breakers.