I have a well point 15′ down. I think its plugged, I use this well to fill my pool. I heard from my neighbor (an old timer) that if you fire a .22 down the well it may free up the clogged point. I don’t have a .22 but I have a .38
What do you think????
Go Cubs
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Replies
not in my world but knock your self out
Daniel
Dy-no-mite!
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
indeed, a traditional fix for clogged well points - heard it from several people over the years - never tried it - be sure to report back if you are able....
I'm checking in as requested.....................
My brother in law grew up on a farm in Michigan. Claims his dad used a 30-06 on his well with success everytime
Tonight I unscrewed some pipe and fired two 240 grain Federal hydoshock .44 magnum down the pipe . (pretty hot loads) I put it back together and turned on the pump. The water was a dark brown for 2 minutes and I got my pressure back.
I was planning to say to the well point. ...... "Hey pipe, this is a forty four magnum.... the most powerful gun. through all this excitment I forgot if I fired five or six shots. So tell me pipe...........do you feel lucky??? But I forgot
Go Cubs
'make my day' -
thanks, glad to hear that it is more than a rural legend -
"there's enough for everyone"
Uh, yeah... it works great. Clears it right up. Do it and post some picts if you can. See if you can borrow a .44 mag instead of your little pop gun .38, or maybe a Weatherbee.
I do have a Smith & Wesson model 29 (.44 cal) knowing my luck I'd split the pipe. Then I'd have to endure my wife's laughter as I spend another day pounding down a new tip.
I've heard of old timers doing it up here. Always heard of .22s, not larger stuff.
I worked with a geologist who sent some seriously big charges down the hole in a past life. Like pounds. But those were 24" holes, in rock, to 1,000 feet or so.
And another who never bought slotted casing. Just drove blank casing. When it was all in place, he'd wrap nails and bolts around some charges and dentonate them at the desired depths to create perf'd casing in place.
Just so I don't have to search and the opportunity to look ignorant simultaneously, what's a well point?
Joe H
It's the sharp point on a knife that Frenchy was complaining about.
be I don't know Luka's got a bit of the edge on tonight too and it must be contagious.
A person with no sense of humor about themselves is fullashid
Edited 6/18/2005 12:00 am ET by razzman
Edited 6/18/2005 12:00 am ET by razzman
Actually it's the pointed metal driver mechanism that first meets the earth when you drill or sledgehammer in a new well.
A person with no sense of humor about themselves is fullashid
A well point is, well, basically a point.
On the tip of a pipe.
It can be made any one of a number of ways. But the common characteristics are that it is pointed, it usually has an iron tip, and somewhere in the point is mesh, or perforated sheet metal.
Just drive it into the ground. No drilling necessary.
I have seen more homemmade ones than store bought. The store bought are purtier, but the homemade ones work just as well.
I saw one at Art B's place that looked homemade. Ask him about it.
The most common homemmade will be something like cutting the end of a pipe into a sort of crown, hammering the pieces together and welding them into a point.
Yeesh, now youse guys have me thinking about how much trouble/expense it will be to have a well point made to my specs...
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Are we there yet ?
Now ya went and got me thinking if a point, instead of being just a point, were to be somewhat spiraled in shape , if it might not go into the soil any easier?
A person with no sense of humor about themselves is fullashid
I think that would actually make it more difficult.It's driven as in pounded. I think the spiral action would slow it down.At any rate, you'd have to be careful to spiral it counter to the motion that would loosen the pipe joints.
Are we there yet ?
This is definitely a learning experience for me.
When someone says their point is plugged, do they mean the hard drilling point at the end of the pipe or the perforated sieve section just above the actual point where the water would enter the pipe ?
carpenter in transition
the sieve - sand, fine aggregate, and minerals all tend to build up and clog the screen - another method is to pull the point and replace - I've done that before - the .22 technique is always mentioned in the coffee shop when clogged screens are mentioned - hard to find anyone to testify that 'ya I did that and it worked' - it does appeal to the baser male instinct...
"there's enough for everyone"
cool, thanks
what's the deal with the TNT ? wouldn't that collapse the drilled hole ?
carpenter in transition
Hopefully it just blows everything up down at the bottom end of the pipe. Loosening everything up, and letting the water flow through again.I wouldn't be looking down the pipe when it happened, though. Just in case there is anything loose above the explosion. Can we say -really- big shotgun....I'm surprised no one has buried something like a pumpkin cannon yet. You could safely get a much bigger blast with less casing, that way.Maybe something for Cloud hidden to consider the next time his neighbors get out the hedge trimmers.
Are we there yet ?
hopefully yes.
doesn't the blast wreck the casing ?
or do you remove the pipe and then do this ?
carpenter in transition
I don't know, Tim. I've never done it.But since others have, I would assume it must not hurt anything important.Of course, you wouldn't want to leave your pump down there...LOL
Are we there yet ?
"doesn't the blast wreck the casing ?"
I've never heard of anyone using TNT in a 2" well.
I was talking about sending nasty things down in 18" to 36" production-sized well and/or oil field work.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
It would tend to put a bit of lead into the diet, no ?; )
Are we there yet ?
...lead into the diet...
always wondered about that issue - I'm guessing that a .22 slug would probably add a negligble amount of lead to the water - not much surface area - - probably would become coated with mineral from the water like everything else in the system - - at least if the water resembled the common midwestern fare...
"there's enough for everyone"
I was thinking that in a confined explosion like that, a lot of it would become basically powdered. I don't think I'd want to drink from the well for a few months, myself.
Are we there yet ?
a lot of it would become basically powdered.
I'd bet that you would find it as one not particularly deformed slug - it'll be striking water before it gets to any metal (tho it probably would ricochet down the casing...)
"there's enough for everyone"
That's right. I hadn't thought of that. I guess I was thinking the well would be dry. But if it were dry, even this would make no difference.I also hadn't considered the fact that eventually it would be covered with it's own layer of crud, sealing it away from the water supply.
Are we there yet ?
a .22 slug would probably add a negligble amount of lead to the water
Well, yes, in any sort of reality. The one 45±gr slug is probably 16 or 17 times the maximum exposure frothed about by the EPA, though . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
The one 45±gr slug is probably 16 or 17 times the maximum exposure frothed about by the EPA, though . . .
hmm...I know it's relatively small, but it is more lead than I'd want to take in one shot....
"there's enough for everyone"
As David said, the screen part.The entire thing is called the well point. Not just the point on the very end.=0)
Are we there yet ?
I thought of using the .22 idea because pounding down the point was an all day thing. I use this well for my above ground pool. I wouldn't entertain the idea if my kids and I were drinking from the water.
I usually start with a post hole digger and go as far down as I can get (4' ??) I set the pipe as strait up and down as possible and fill in some of the dirt. Now the fun part......... You put a drive cap on the end of he pipe you're going to strike. Take a 16 pound sledge hammer and go to town. The fun part is the pipe is in 10' sections. If the well point is three foot, the pipe is ten foot and only five foot is in the hole to start ........then you have eight foot out of the hole. Try swinging a sledge on a ladder. I set my well point next to the pool deck so I was able to work off the deck.
But still..a good swing with a 16 pound sledge only drives the pipe 1/2 to 3/4 in.
after its down, you need a manuel hand pump. It gets the fine silt out of the pipe. If you didn't the sand would damage your pump. So you have to hand pump until the water is clean (half hour??)
Last take your handy dandy saw and cut the pipe off where you need it. Rent a pipe threader and thread the pipe. Hook up the plumbing and electical and shazam....water.
My water table is really high here, only three foot down.
Go Cubs
Use a post driver next time.Swinging a sledge gets old. Step ladder or not.A post driver can be had for cheap. Mine was less than 20 dollars.
Are we there yet ?
"The fun part is the pipe is in 10' sections. If the well point is three foot, the pipe is ten foot and only five foot is in the hole to start ........then you have eight foot out of the hole. Try swinging a sledge on a ladder."Why not cut the pipe into 5' sections and re-thread it to make it easier to drive?
That answers the question I guess.
My well is drilled, 360' with a pump at 250'. No water close to the surface around here unless it's raining.
Joe H
Water table is about two feet around here.But I'd probably go at least 20 feet to get away from surface contamination.Been wondering how difficult it will be to drive a homemade 4" point through our soft loam and clay. Probably have to rig up a homemade driver as well, to have anything heavy enough.
Are we there yet ?
"how difficult it will be to drive a homemade 4" point through our soft loam and clay"
Not by hand. You've got 4 times the soil to compress/displace and a 2" well is at the limits of manual work in the first place.
Like many aspects of field work, I take an engineer's estimate of how long something will take and multiple it by the number of years since he's been in field himself. Drive 1.5" well point to 20 feet in 2 hours? But he hasn't done it himself for 8 years? Allow the tech 16 hours to POSSIBLY get it done!
Yes, some kind of power driver might work with 4-ich casing. Drillers use a spinning captsan with a 3/4" hemp rope around it 1.5 times. Pulling the rope taut pulls it up. Releasing your tension lets the rope (and a 160-pound hammer) fall 5 feet. That will bang in a 2-inch sampler pretty quick into unconsolidated soils.
For a one-time home operation, I envision 20-foot lengths of galvinized pipe, lashed into a tripod with a pulley at the apex.
And hard hat, steel toes, and your wits about you.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
I was thinking 5 to 8 foot sections of pipe for the well. Only take maybe 3 of the 8 foot sections, 4 of the 5 foot. Only going 20 to 25 feet.And a homemade takeoff of the old post driver. Maybe a couple hundred pounds on the top, and a tripod with rope and pulley to lift and drop it.And yes, I could lift and drop a couple hundred pounds with a rope and pulley, for long enough to get it all driven in a day.Especially if I gang pulleys.Most time consuming part is going to be drilling all the holes to make a screen for a homemade 4" point.
Are we there yet ?
And a homemade takeoff of the old post driver.
ya mean junkhound doesn't have a pile driver? - - I've watched bridge piles being driven, pretty impressive stuff - also watched 'Soap Hill' (IN) clay defeat the piles - they are only good for so many strikes -
"there's enough for everyone"
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if he did, at that. LOLGetting it up into the back 40 where I'd be pounding this thing is another matter...; )
Are we there yet ?
"Most time consuming part is going to be drilling all the holes to make a screen for a homemade 4" point."
Luka,
When faced with blank pipe in the field and I need screen pipe I will ocassionally grab the drill but only as a last result. It takes such a long time.
Usually the circ saw is a LOT faster. toothed balde for PVC. Metal abrasive blade for steel. Let the sparks fly!
But keep the slot limited in length. Maybe 90 degress each on opposite sides. It is easy to get carryed away and cut so much the pipe has little compressive strength left.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Now that is an idea. Only to keep the slot size down, maybe use a thin cutoff wheel in a grinder or air cutoff tool.Probably be a perfect job for one of those small battery powered saws. Just have to find a really thin cutoff wheel with the right arbor size... (Gotta have the saw, too. LOL)I was seeing myself marking lines, making a jig, and standing there for hours at the benchtop drill press. Breaking half a dozen or more 1/8" drill bits......If I had to stick with the thicker blades that fit circ saws, then I'd probably jig and use the chop saw instead.I'm getting more hepped to this idea. I found a good fabricator that would probably do all the welding for cheap.Pile driver can be as simple as a plate welded to the top of a short piece of the right size pipe. Put a plywood box on top of that, and pile on the concrete blocks or bags of concrete, etc. Use enough ganged pulleys, and it will be easily lifted even with just one hand.I can't see a 1 and a half or 2 inch pipe being worth much as a well. But a 4 inch pipe is getting close to being useful...Especially if I slot most of the bottom 5 foot piece. Make the total 25 feet, and you start with the slots at 20 feet down. Probably plenty far enough to keep away from surface water, even here.Biggest concern I have is how to design a driving cap that neither deforms the threads, nor the head of the pipe itself. I'd assume just putting a standard cap on there, then driving, would mean difficulty getting the cap back off, and a coupler put on. Whereas putting a coupler on, then a short piece of sacrificial pipe is going to leave the possibility of deforming the coupling.Hmmm, maybe a piece of pipe about a foot long or so. Screw that tightly into a coupling. Then slide another piece of pipe over the first pipe. Snug fit is needed. Slide that down to the coupling, then weld in place to the first pipe. Remove the coupling. Now, when you thread that into the coupling at the top of the well, the sleeve you welded on, will rest on top of the coupling. The threads of the pipe that are inside the coupling will keep the coupling threads in good shape. And hey, I just figured out a fairly easy way to check for bedrock without damaging the point and having to pull it back up anyway. Rebar ! Drive it down to check for bedrock, then pull it back up and drive your point. That pulley system will easily pull the rebar back up. It's amazing how easily something like that is pulled back up if you get directly over it with your pulling power.
Are we there yet ?
Why wouldn't this work for driving well pipe?
View Image
PD-55 drives a farm T post or a 12 ft channel post for a stop sign.
PD-140 with special chuck and drive cap drives 4"x6" guard rail post.
PD-39P Panel Post Driver drives a 1-5/8" panel post.
In seconds, drive a multitude of posts...
View ImageIn seconds, you can drive Telespar, Channel Posts, C Posts, Delineator Posts, Pipe, Sand Points, Ground Rods, T Posts, Anchors, Z Posts, Large Tent Pegs, I Posts, W Posts, Concrete Form Pins, Beams, Round, Square or Rectangular Tubing, Wood Posts, Stakes or any shape up to 4". Sheet Piling and Guard Rail Posts are driven with adapters. The lightweight Model PD-39 is easily operated by one man and is the perfect choice for driving all types of steel fence posts. A PD-39P Panel Post Driver ensures fast erection of temporary panel fencing. Because the PD-39's are so light in weight, the operator must pull down on the spring loaded handles to provide the correct weight for driving. The standard weight models, the PD-45/PD-55/PD-100/PD-140 are balanced to drive without help.
Whadda mean it's last call? I just got here.
Looks like it would work just fine.Also looks like it costs hundreds of dollars.
Are we there yet ?
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But why quibble over price? <G>
Whadda mean it's last call? I just got here.
LOLEnough 4" pipe for a well is already going to cost a bundle.
Are we there yet ?
Depends on where your located at.
Diameter 1 1/4" 12 ft down in northern Ohio through sand and gravel has never run out of water.
be well
A person with no sense of humor about themselves is fullashid
Really ?Yeesh, it must be very different down there than I imagine.That would pretty much mean the water would have to freely flow into the pipe as fast as you can pull it out.I guess I just don't have confidence that would be the case here. Thinking that a 4 inch pipe is going to hold more water on it's own. The pump will draw that down till the water level is too low, then it will take time for the pipe to fill back up. Storage tank an absolute necessity.But you give me hope.=0)Of course, the other factor is that a couple of years ago, while at Texfest, James DuHammel gave me a pump that will pretty much fit a 4 inch pipe. It was running when he got it, so the worst I should have to do is take it apart and clean it up. Maybe replace an "O" ring or two.That would take care of all the problems concerning foot valves and all the rest, in one fell swoop.As an aside... I brought it home in my suitcase.If any airline employee had opened that suitcase, they would have sworn it was a big old bomb !!=0)
Are we there yet ?
Diameter 1 1/4" 12 ft down in northern Ohio through sand and gravel has never run out of water.
almost nothing like being a short distance from a great lake to have access to water -
Teays river location isn't bad tho - http://www.dnr.ohio.gov/geosurvey/geo_fact/geo_f10.htm our modern 6" well is 90' deep, static level at 33', driller pumped 100 gpm out of it for a couple of hours after drilling - - spoiled, we are....
"there's enough for everyone"
Oops... wrong thread
Edited 6/18/2005 7:05 am ET by sprout
Preferred methods-
1- compressed air
2- acid tablets (made for this purpose)
3- .22
If the above fail, then next I'd attach another 5' of pipe and drive down further. The water table may have fallen.
If that fails, it may be time to drive a new well.
But the first thing I'd do is open the top of the pipe and fill it with water. Does the water sink away? Fast or very slowly or not at all? Fast would mean your point is open, very slowly likely means a partially clogged point while not at all would indicate totally clogged screen.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 6/18/2005 10:26 am ET by GOLDHILLER
Where would I get the tablets?? I've heard you could use muriatic acid,
Tablets probably at one of your local plumbing supply houses or from a local driller.......but yes, you can use liquid acid. Tabs are a bit safer to handle.Here's a url that links you to an 89 page pdf document that saves alot of typing on this end.http://www.mass.gov/dep/brp/dws/files/prwellgd.pdfHere's the url to the HTML version. Loads pretty quickly even on dial-up. You're interested in pages 77 and 78.http://babyurl.com/Jhcs9HKnowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
There is a compressed gas drain unstopper in the plumbing section at HD. It comes with a pack of CO2 cartridges, and you stick the tip down the drain. Then pull the valve and light it off! I've always thought of it as a 3 Stooges skit in a box
"Hey Moe - why don't you clear that plugged toilet with this."
"Gimme that - Now watch how I clear out (fissss SPLOOMM) (SPLAT)"
<poik> <poik> "OW"
While not my tool of choice for raw sewage, this may be prefect for a try at concusivly clearing that well - without the lead contamination.
A blank catridge in that 38 might work to in a pinch, as long as it was decontaminated beforehand.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!