The job is booked, contract signed, and now the client, who had us spin a number of cost-saving options at her at proposal time, wants more savings, in the way of an old exterior door. This nickel and dime stuff is getting old.
Baked into the estimate and made a part of the proposal, then contract, is a middle-priced door, a 2868 ThermaTru paintgrade fiberglass SmoothStar door, one with a 9-lite plastic grille in its upper half. It is prehung in a frame with an oak adjustable sill.
This old door being proposed for use instead of the new ThermaTru is a slab only, not prehung.
I haven’t begun the RFQ work to find the pricing on frame, hinge, weatherstrip, sill, etc. components, all of which will be needed to turn the old slab into something resembling the shop-made prehung we intended. But let’s say it all comes to $144 of the $344 cost I got quoted for the prehung TT unit.
We’ve no hinge mortising templates, but we’ve 5 routers between us, and are perfectly capable of jigging up to make the hinge preps in the frame.
My initial thought is that we would put more labor dollars into jerry-rigging the old slab into a frame, than material costs saved by eliminating a new slab.
How much would you give back if asked to do this?
Replies
Nothing back..might even up the price, by the aggravation factor
DITTO!!
DITTO!!!
up the price....
cut this nonsense out now 'cause it's onlt gonna get worse...
the controllers only value their buck at any cost to others... and not yur time....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
IF they are trying to save money, well, IMHO, there's not much to save on a $344 door! I mean, how cheap can you go??? LOL
But...and no offense meant to the fans of the new door, if they are trying to get something in there that looks better, then maybe they won't flip when you tell tham that it will cost more, as you will have to rout the door for hinges, weaterstripping and bore, etc. I imagine that you'll spend a couple hours dorking with it to make sure it functions correctly.
Time is money, charge what is fair, let them decide.
(And you can't blame them too much for trying to parse teh budget, we all do it. But we also know when to say when.)
Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Likewise.
I say you buy the jig. $200. Give half a day to practice with it. $200. Jamb stock $100. Weatherstrip $50. Hinges, trim, misc, $50. Labor to put it all together $200. That about doubles it, right?
"Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
Agreed. We would charge more as well. Maybe a lot more depending on the old door. And no guarantees of any kind on the old door.
DG/Builder
Gene....dunno if without giving it much consideration you already "agreed" to reuse the slab to try and save them some money.....but even if you did, I'd suggest you go back and honestly explain to them that theres no way its going to cost them less than that new door to turn the old one into something legitimate.
Its gotta take you a day....plus materials.
Thats more than $344 easy.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Tell her it will cost more.
Explain how reusing and old slab and making it work in a new frame will require more in time and effort then the cost of door slab.
if the one U wanna use will cost $344 ...
I'd simply tell them it'll cost $444 to use the one they have on hand.
simple.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I am on board with everyone else. Since we do small jobs we hang exising door and new doors in old frames. No way we could do what you are talking about labor and materials for $344. And our labor rate is low compared to many here based on our rural location. (50 an hour) DanT
I get this stuff on a sorta regular basis. ( more from general ignorance rather than cheapskate however )
Last bathroom I did they wanted to keep the bath. The rest of the room was gutted and redone. It wasnt marked, perfectly good bath. I did point out however that in previous jobs where something was kept in an otherwise new room, it always looked bad in comparison and the folks regretted keeping it.
They changed it. For a coupla hundred it just isnt worth it.
For your cheapskate door folks........I would tell them the same, how costly VS end result etc. If they wont budge, price accordingly. ie: HIGH
Like someone said, least a days work in it. Plus, if it isnt 'perfect' guess who they gonna whine at?
Ever heard the expression 'like makin honey outa dog shid'?
Not an exponenet of the DILLIGAF system.
O.K. I'll bite-whats the DILLIGAF system?
LOL
I had forgotten that I changed the tag line.
D does
I it
L look
L like
I i
G give
A a
F ffffffff figgure it out. :-)
Not an exponent of the DILLIGAF system.
Gene, your challenge will be to steer the client back towards the new door without causing her any anxiety. You need to sell the benefits of the newer door: long warranty vs new warranty, stronger, less air infiltration, better looking, less maintenance.
After explaining all th benefits, you need to explain that to match those characteristics, you will need to do an excessive amount of retro fitting that runs up the labor bill, which will be true.
Either do this on a cost basis, or shoot her the exact price that you would if you were bidding the project.
When your in the remodeling business, you can't whine about not having a tool. Your lack of a door routing kit makes you less professional, so I wouldn't use that in your conversations with her. I'd explain that you normally set up the jigs for multiple door installations but the time savings are lost with one retrofit.
you might have some savings, or you might have more costs. Just figure it out and price it fair, both to her and yourself.
blue
This is the job for which we already did price adjustments for a number of little cost savings measures, agreeing to re-use some materials from demolition (oldgrowth pine flooring, beadboard ceiling finish) and agreed that the kitchen demo is all theirs (they are giving the cabs to someone).
We said we won't give back any labor money if Junior works with us (he won't), but maybe this is the one where we just install a blank frame and say that Junior can install the old door!
we just install a blank frame and say that Junior can install the old door
Excellent idea (and NOT being sarcastic), that may actually satisfy all involved, if the HO truly wants savings and education for Junior, they can also live with any mistakes involved till Junior learns enough to fix his mistakes.
(note: would not have posted this yesterday but not now April fool, == the above is actually how many of us learned tasks, screw up the first one and learn, then fix it, all that follows is then easy)
screw up the first one and learn, then fix it,
My dad always said that, just to explain why they had my sister. Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way.
You must be a younger sibling.
My theory is that my parents had me first, were so happy that they had a second ( my brother), realized what a mistake that was, and stopped having kids.
Gene, that is a most excellent idea. That is win, win, win.
blue
Nothing frosts me more than this type of nickle and diming from customers.
But, you have to rise above it because it's all part of the game.
The customers don't understand (for the most part), what it takes to retrofit and what costs are.
Blue said it perfectly.
Good luck