Need advice on how to approach this:
Local contractor with a crew of two other guys, all very skilled frame and trim carpenters. They are helping me finish up the shell and interior framing of my house. The walls inside (at least the outer walls) are blueboard, installed over SIPS for the water resistance.
One of the three guys wants to learn how to do veneer plaster work. He says it’s a lost art, and there is a growing demand for it in some of the high-end homes being built in the area. He wants to use my walls to experiment.
Now I’m not against this; I’d like to learn it myself. I have plenty of blank wall in the basement for him to learn on, and if he feels he’s got it right, he can move upstairs and try something we will see everyday. I don’t know if he’s good at traditional drywall taping and mudding, though. I have left a LOT of room in our agreement for changes in details, and experimentation such as this, but I don’t want to end up with crap.
How should I approach this in terms of negotiating payment (or not)? Pay him for his time if I’m happy with the results? Tell him he’s on his own time? Pay a premium since veneer plastering is a premium finish? I dunno here. Part of me wants to skim the entire job with d-Mix and be done with it. Nobody will notice unless I tell them it’s plaster.
Replies
"Nobody will notice unless I tell them it's plaster. "
Ohh, they'll notice- because it'll look like absolute sh**.
It's going to take him many houses to get a good enough finish that I'd want him doing my house. If neither of you have done this before, it's going to take tons of boards just to figure out how to mix the mud to the right consistency, how long to wait for it to set before finishing it, etc.
I'd say let him practice on his own dime until he gets good enough to do an acceptable job, then pay him to do your house.
Bob
I agree that he should practyice on his own time, but disagree whether it would lkook like crap. I have done a few walls in plaster, and while it took too long for cost comparison to a pro, it looked like polished pro work.That will depend on whether the guy has the knack or not. I'd hate to find out in my house.
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Well, that's quite a proposition you've got there. I don't think drywalling and plastering are any more alike that Mother Theresa and Louis Farrakan though. If he has concrete trowel experience, that will help him.
Since you're a willing participant in the grand experiment, put the onus on him. You'll pay X for a smooth, acceptable wall. If he gets there with plaster, great. Kid's got a future. If he stinks at it and can't get rid of the little ridges, then he can skim it over, or you can with the DMix. But I'd avoid any doing of it myself if at all possible. But buy him the book Plastering Skills and make him read it. And the two of them have to work as a team. Doing it solo is pure foolishness. One guy gets to be in charge of mixing, cleaning, keeping the hawk loaded or plaster next to the guy working. That's a full time deal. The other guy runs the trowel. When the stuff starts getting "just right" both of them go nuts putting the final smooth on until it sings, or it's too late.
"A bore is a man who, when you ask him how he is, tells you." -Bert Taylor
In a couple of pockets of the Canadian Atlantic provinces, the French Acadians have brought the techniques up from the Boston area. I have literally stood and watched for hours over 10-15 years. It's a real craft/art. I wouldn't try it myself!!! Their helpers that mix/deliver the plaster, usually apprentice 3-4 years before they get to work on their own.
I'm with you, I've watched it done and am simply amazed!
I watched Bob Vila take the trowl and hawk and give it a whirl, he sucked.
Doug
I think you've got a pretty good chance if he's a skilled carpenter. hopefully he's worked with concrete or something similar to the plaster.
I think the bigger question is what you want-- if you're looking for the perfect polished, dead flat wall that some people can make, don't go with a first timer. If you're ok with a few trowel marks and some character in general, go for it. and pay him by the board, not the hour.
zak
This sounds like me. Grew up in the Boston area, saw a lot of plaster go up. Moved away. realized how rare it was elsewhere, and got real interested in doing it myself.
I did a large basement two years ago, made a similar aggreement w the HO that I could plaster about half the basement n/c ( the half that didn't show much). Didn't come out too bad,,,,,, man did I work!!!!
Remodeled a mud room and dining room in my own place last summer. A good friend of mine has been in drywall 15 years,,, strong Scottsman w really good trowel skills. He helped me plaster these rooms. I mixed, cleaned etc, he did most of the application. Came out pretty nice, and I have that hard finish I wanted in the mud room.
Like Zak wrote, be prepared for something that looks plastered. You (he) can touch up the worst spots w mud. Make sure he has an enthusiastic helper,,, solo is a waste of time. There is too much to do when the stuff starts going off.
Mabey you could let the fellow start w closets. This is where most guys start anyway. After he does a few closets he may have a change of heart.
As far as pay, he should feel lucky to have some sq ft to practise on. Let him start on some inconspicuous areas, see how it comes out, how fast it goes, and work an agreement from there
I'm still persuing this every chance I get.
Good idea, send him to the closet. Think of it this way. A plaster finish should be able to be painted or papered with a minimum of wall prep. How would you like to follow this guy on a job and fix all his mistakes. Not me. Start him in the closet or the cellar stairway.