Vent-free NG logs in NG/wood fireplace?
A couple of days ago, the wife and I were looking at the gas log kits at HD. We have a Heatilator E42 in our five year old new construction house in the outskirts of Atlanta, GA. Evidentally, the builder had the sub install a starter-burner to get wood logs started, but the grate came with the fireplace.
While looking at the various gas log kits in HD, I noticed on the tear-off brochure that vent-free kits can be used with fireplaces that are also vented. The advertised benefit is closing the flue to reduce or minimize heat lost through the flue. BTW, my fireplace is also equipped with a side-vent, which I think is in case you are burning wood/gas and have a glass door.
Anyway, we were thinking of getting one of the vent-free kits for maximum performance to heat the 16’x18′ family room, which has 13-18′ ceilings. Typically, in the morning the wife does her exercizes and treadmill walking in the other part of the house while all other activity seems confined to this family room. This makes heating of the entire first floot rather moot.
I have sent an email to Heatilator regarding the use of gas logs, but I have not heard back from them. Has anyone bought one of the gas log kits from HD that are designed for vent/free use in a conventional fireplace?
Replies
I recommend against any use of "ventless" gas logs/heaters.
First, they are, in fact, vented: they use the house itself as a vent. Kind of choosing to live in a chimney.
Second, you are supposed to open a window or door whenever one is in use. How many people actually do that?
Third, they are only intended as and approved for supplemental heat, no more than 4 hours a day, if I recall.
Fourth, you aren't allowed to use them in bedrooms: read between the lines on that one!
Fifth,the dump a lot of moisture into the air, as well as other combustion by-products,
If the salesman is telling you they are "100% efficient," ask him how he accounts for the cold air entering the house when used inaccordance with the manufacturer's instructions.
If you still go for one, get and use a low level CO monitor, like the NSI Model 3000 (see, http://www.nationalcomfortinstitute.com/article.cfm?AN=Low%20Level%20Carbon%20Monoxide%20Monitor ) - I sell this model my mail, for $125, or look for the "CO Experts Model 2004," the other low level monitor avaialble on the internet
Less expesive CO monitors are much less senstive, with a "ventless" gas heater, you want to know immedately if the unit is producing excessive CO.
How many people have died as a result of using a vent-free gas log kit in the USA in the past 12-months? Anyone know? Given that most people do not follow instructions, I'd imagine its several hundred, but nature has a way of protecting stupid with horny and keeping the population high.
I understand that a vent-free fireplace utilizes air from the room as part of its combustion chamber. Its also why I mentioned that the fireplace has a side vent, which I presumed was for NG venting of CO/CO2 and bringing in air for the combustion process.
Open a door or window whenever one is in use? This is the first time I've heard this, but since I've never bought one before I certainly do not have the instructions. Maybe I should go see if I can pull the manual down from a manufacturer's website.
I am also not aware that there is a time-limit, but this goes hand in hand with the last statement (must have owners manual to know).
Not putting one in a bedroom, so that is a big, moot point.
Salesman said nothing about efficiency. I wouldn't trust a word from an HD employee. If he knew what he was doing, he'd be working elsewhere amking more money.
So, I am taking all of your points in hand and still wish to know how many of these units are being operated per instruction since I have not seen news reports on mass deaths over there use. I really do wonder, though. Time to Google some news ...
"Guessing" that hundreds of people have died in the US last year due to ventless logs is the most rediculous and irresponsible statement I've read on this board.I can hear it now, people quoting this on the street like fact.Think about it for more than a fleeting second. Maybe one death sneek by unnoticed if it was a frail elderly person on their death bed to start with but hundereds? Please. I understand that CO poisioning leaves tell tale signs on the victim. You did mean CO poisioning right? Not 3rd degree burns or head injury deaths attributed to these leathal machines of death I imagine.Please share your thought process.Stu
I agree with you that the number of deaths he guessed was almost certainly high. (We have no way of knowing because CO poisoning is often misdiagnosed.)
But your suggestion that such deaths are probably limited to a few frail older people is, in my opinion, based on having studied the subject for several years, irresponsible to the extent it suggests CO poisonings are rare and very limited and not of much concern.
>>I understand that CO poisoning leaves tell tale signs on the victim.According to the experts, CO poisoning is probably the most commonly misdiagnosed poisoning presenting at ERs:"Today, Carbon Monoxide (CO) is the most commonly encountered and pervasive poison in our environment. It is responsible for more recent deaths (see historical death data for NYC) than any other single poison, and for enormous suffering and morbidity in those who survive.:""It has been known for decades that CO poisoning can produce lasting health harm, mainly through its destructive effects on the central nervous system. Some studies found that 25-40% of people died during acute exposure, while 15-40% of the survivors suffered immediate or delayed neuropsychological deficit."Now, an emerging body of evidence suggests that longer exposures to lower levels of CO, ie. chronic CO poisoning, are capable of producing a myriad of debilitating residual effects that may continue for days, weeks, months and even years."http://www.coheadquarters.com/CO1.htm
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Edited 1/1/2006 3:05 pm ET by rjw
Thank you for the education. I did not know it was often misdiagnosed!
Stu
Hey, I pulled a figure out of my butt because no one else provided a real figure. I can only guess if I cannot find anything on the Internet. And if the seasoned and experienced people on FH have no idea then that only furthers the condition of ignorance. Now, if someone quotes me out of context then that is there fault, not mine. I clearly said I was guessing and wrote it in a manner befitting of a sarcasm that highlights the general ignorance of the matter.
Now, if the CO/CO2 detector manufacturing industry and its partners cannot come up with some numbers to promote their products then how should the common consumer (me) take the serious of the situation? I personally only recommend things I either have personal experience with, or have access to and can share links to direct information of someone else reporting the information desired at hand.
And I am not doubting the worth of a product being suggested or recommended, but I would also like to see the reseller or manufacturer prove cases in which evidence exists on cases in which the product would have helped save a life in the framework of the thread at hand: vent-free gas logs. Is there not one person on FH that can show an article (even a tabloid piece) in which someone using a vent-free gas log died as a result of CO/CO2 levels?
Also, I stated while my intention was to consider a vent-free version for warming a room ('a' being singular, or one), I also mentioned that I was thinking of using the side-vent already present in the fireplace. And this is on top of my easier than swiss cheese bleed-through home condition.
BTW, I may have misused the wording of the product I had up for consideration. I've been saying, "vent-free gas logs" when I should have been saying, "gas logs that can be used in vented or vent-free" applications. If the flue is closed the NG needs air (or rather the O2 component in air) for combustion, and this is why I considered the fireplace's side-vent. Unfortunately, I still have not gotten word back from Heatilator on the ability of that side vent in relation to gas logs.
This issue is not just a CO problem. Even when adjusted and burning cleanly there are indoor air pollution problems. Natgas is not just 100% clean methane but contains nitrogen, sulphur and other minor contaminants including the "smell" put in for safety reasons. Nitrogen oxides produced are known to be a problem for those with respiratory problems. We talk a lot now about healthy homes but venting the products of combustion of anything including candles (bad, bad things showing up) into the house is anything but healthy.
Edited 1/2/2006 3:52 pm ET by experienced
Edited 1/2/2006 8:29 pm ET by experienced
>>Is there not one person on FH that can show an article (even a tabloid piece) in which someone using a vent-free gas log died as a result of CO/CO2 levels?I can't tell you of any deaths, but I can tell you from direct experience as carbon monoxide and combustion analyst of people who have been hospitalized because of excessive CO produced by ventless heaters.And death isn't the only only adverse consequence of CO exposure: it can cause significant heart and neurological problems, as well as others.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Point taken. I will broaden my search to encompass non-deaths, too. I would think that if there were a significant enough role of potential liability that the fireplace manufacturer, the gas log manufacturer, and the r/etailers would move as far away of the scenarios which could generate the greatest amount loss in suit.
I am certainly not saying that the is a potential, but the madnitude of the potential. Besides, how many people have been harmed in track-house for CO/CO2 condition where the victim wasn't trying to kill themself? These houses bleed way too much for that to be taken seriously--at least in my neck of the woods.
I'll ask the wife if she has access to a portable equipment for the detection & determination of gas entities (she's a chemist). Might make for an interesting experiment. But, I am about the biggest doubting thomas considering my five year old home built by an idiot and bought by a first-time ignorant.
Its surprising that the gas log companies also don't make CO/CO2 sensors and r/etalers don't market them side-by-side Winter warming products. I'm talking the big-boxes, of course, but this goes for all resellers.
>>I am certainly not saying that the is a potential, but the madnitude of the potential. Besides, how many people have been harmed in track-house for CO/CO2 condition where the victim wasn't trying to kill themself? Every year, "More than 450 people die through unintentional CO exposure (CDC) As many a 2000 people die intentionally using CO (CDC)"
http://www.coheadquarters.com/CO1.htmNote that the unintentional deaths figure is considered by experts to be under-reported as (i) CO poisoning is often misdiagnosed and (ii) few people know how to check for CO problems in houses.The number of people injured by chronic exposure is completely unknown: http://www.coheadquarters.com/ChronicCO/cochronic31.htm >>I'll ask the wife if she has access to a portable equipment for the detection & determination of gas entities (she's a chemist). Might make for an interesting experiment.I'd recommend she also be trained in how to test for CO: the 2 leading courses are from the National Comfort Institute and Bacharach. Both are good, the NCI is the better of the two in my experience.Also, I recommend the Bacharach Fyrite Tech as a good low cost CO meter and combustion analyzer. Their Fyrizer is pretty awesome, if she wants, she can send it to me when she's done with her experiments so I can use it in my regular testing.<G>
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Hey Nuke,"I'll ask the wife if she has access to a portable equipment for the detection & determination of gas entities (she's a chemist)."Isn't the CO2 problem why miners used Canaries in the past? My wifes cousins were taken to the hospital after one of them dialed 911 a year ago. Everyone in the house had passed out and the 20 something son woke up and could not wake the others. The ER knew what to check for immediately and saved all their lives. A squirrel had made a nest in the furnace chimney. Hopefully ER's around the country are more savy nowadays.Kevin
Isn't the CO2 problem why miners used Canaries in the past?Nope.CO, not CO2For the best medical info on Carbon Monoxide, see:
http://www.coheadquarters.com/CO1.htm
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Thanks to all of the discussion and the pre-existing conclusion of poor construction in my home, I've decided to continue not using that fireplace in any role. In fact, I am thinking of tearing the whole thing out and putting in another window (sarcasm). Actually, that cavity could probably house my RPTV.
And with the past two days the temps have been 70ºF & 68ºF, it would seem premature to consider anything. Thanks all for the depressing discussion. You save me a bunch of money.
why miners used Canaries in the past?
Aside: Hmm, why do I want to remember it was Methane and/or hydrogen sulfide detection that wanted budgerigars down the pits?
Not that a budgie wouldn't detect CO, just that the coal pits had other worries (and in-numerous combustion sources, like carbide lamps).Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
that the gas log companies also ... market them side-by-side
I'm thinking that is a part-n-parcel of the fractured way the "fireplace market" is presently constituted. It's all hit-and-miss, and this product here, but not there; applied in this region this way, but not that, and the other way around elsewhere.
On top of that, house technology has made some big changes, as has some fireplace technology--there's just necessarily a link between the two.
A person could make a case for a number of "drop in" appliances that would "ok" with my presently drafty house. Which is ok, as long as nobody fixes the infiltration on my house. It's not unreasonable to find folk marketing products for that "in the meantime" situation. Imperfect, not unreasonable, least in my opinion.
Eyeballing the map for your location, fireplace for some heat makes some sense, especially if you have a source for outside air (the side vent) for combustion air. Getting an opinion from Heatilator may be like getting dental work for a hen, though. They sell products that are installed by all sorts of people. That can be a lot of liability to take up.
But then, for a good long rant, get me started on "dual use" designed fireplaces.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I am curious about this:
Outstanding Safety Record Since 1980
Every vent-free gas product sold in the U.S. is equipped with a precision-engineered Oxygen Detection Safety-Pilot (ODS), which automatically shuts off the gas supply if the oxygen level in the room approaches a defined minimum set by the National Product Safety Standard ANSI Z21.11.2. This safety standard requires the product to satisfy many construction and performance requirements. Over the 23 years since the introduction of the ODS in 1980, vent-free gas products have accumulated an outstanding safety record. There has never been a documented CO death due to the emissions of a vent-free product.
I found it here: http://www.ventfree.org/pr/092204_2.htm but there isn't a publish date. Also, I guess the above statement could be such that they are only talking about properly installed and properly used units. Thus, the moron factor could be that a million morons died last year (only to be replaced by two million morons).
>>Every vent-free gas product sold in the U.S. is equipped with a precision-engineered Oxygen Detection Safety-Pilot (ODS), which automatically shuts off the gas supply if the oxygen level in the room approaches a defined minimum set by the National Product Safety Standard ANSI Z21.11.2.The ODS (aka "oxygen depletion sensor") is simply a fancy name for a pilot light, set such that if available oxygen at the pilot light level drops, the size of the pilot light flame diminishes and the gas supply is shut off.It will protect against the risk of too much CO2 building up at the burner level with a resulting increase in CO as the flame loses available oxygen.It does not protect against the unit going out of adjustment and excessive amount of CO being produced by, for example, flame impingement.Co tends to rise in houses, (CO2 drops, being significantly heavier than most of the other components in air) so even huge amounts of CO can be produced without "activating" the ODS.And don't forget, continued exposures to low levels of CO can cause serious long term health problems, including heart and neuro."Just because you aren't dead doesn't mean you don't have a dangerous CO problem"
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Mental retardation is on the increase, though! DON'T use themIf, at first, you fricascee, fry, fry a hen!
Fourth, you aren't allowed to use them in bedrooms: read between the lines on that one!
Bob:
In Canada, you can not even have a standard naturally venting Class "A" or "B" chimney + gas appliance in bedrooms.You must go to something approved for that use with an airtight sidewall vent with integral combustion air supply or similar.
By the way, cannnot have any ventless gas heaters in houses in Canada. Can't believe they're allowed in the US. We've even been talking about vented gas kitchen ranges!!
>>We've even been talking about vented gas kitchen ranges!!The amazing thing is, in the US, unvented gas stove are allowed to produce higher amounts of CO than vented appliances!Badly adjusted stoves are, in my experience, one of the most likely causes of CO problems in homes.
American National Standards Institute (ANSI Z21.1) -
Max. CO conc. allowed from an unvented space heater ("air-free") - 200 ppm
Max. CO conc. allowed in a furnace flue gas ("air-free") - 400 ppm
Max. CO conc. allowed for emissions from an unvented gas oven ("air-free") - 800 ppm
Note: "Air-free" is a caluclated figure based on amounts of O2 and CO in the combustion gases: the "air-free" figure will always be higher than the direct CO reading alone; rough rule of thumb: about twice, assuming fairly complete combustion and O2 readings of about 9%-10%
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Edited 1/1/2006 2:52 pm ET by rjw
Nuke, this comes up 2 or 3 times a year over at hvac-talk. The ODS is supposed to shut the pilot off when the O2 is at 18.5%. The problem with that level is that normal O2 is 20.9%.
That means there is 50,000 ppm of something else in the air.
Personally, I don't think it is a good idea.
This is an interesting link on O2 and confined space.http://www.occupationalhazards.com/safety_zones/31/article.php?id=1502
Edited 1/1/2006 4:21 pm ET by rich1
I would not reccomend for you to put one of these vent free log sets in your wood burning fireplace. Vent free products do have a place to be used but not in the house. Now Let me exsplain why I have this opinion. I work for a big box home center and have sold these type of items over the last 15 years, and have had to work with many guest that have installed them either themselves or had paid someone to install. And have had many problems that are caused by a vent free product.
Vent free products in general are safe, but I dont want to debate the ODS and death documentation here. The problems with vent free products in my opinion based on my experiances are:
1. They put way to much moisture into your home. Typically a pint to a quart of water and hour depending on how high the unit is turned up. Most homes built tight can't vent away that much moisture. And in the long term results in rot. Likewise in loose homes that warm moist air will freeze on the coldest point of escape and again causing moisture damage.
2. Vent free units are very technical. By this I mean the average homeowner does not maintain them properly with yearly maintance and cleaning. And likewize even a great gas fitter does not always install them correctly. With vent free units it is very important to have the correct gas line size in order to have the correct gas pressure at the valve on the unit. These units in general are designed to burn essencially 100 percent effienent under very strict conditions. If not one can experiance sooting from the burner. And even if they are installed correctly you can still experiance sooting on the walls. Essencially with all the warm water vapor in the air it causes normal household dust to basically stick to the walls.
3. Another problem I have run into over the years is location in the home they are installed. By this I mean the clearances to other items in the home like doors, windows, ceiling fans and anything else that causes air flow thru the home. If a vent free unit is installed somplace in the home where there is to much air movement and it causes a disruption to how the flame is supposed to burn and can cause sooting from the flame coming in contact with the log set.
I am not a expert by all means, I am just a guy to sells stuff for a living and this is a opinion I have developed over the years. Like I said vend free units have a place and are safe. garage, out buildings, fish shacks, RV'a at times. I do not have or do I intend to go search up data to prove my point so take it with a grain of salt.
Hope my comments help.
1. Adding moisture to my home would be a BIG benefit for me. The current moisture level is so low that its causing a lot of problems. I've taken to putting a 4-5 quart baking pan on the floor by the registers with water in them to introduce moisture back into the air.
2. The NG lines in the builder-installed fireplaces are all 1/2". According to the manufacturer and the people I have spoken with (all taken with large rains of salt) are that I will need to reduce this, and -- conveniently -- the reducer pipe is sold separately, but available in the store. The sooting comes from having an open exposure, no, from firebox to room? I was thinking of glass doors in combination with the side-vent, but wasn't sure how this would effect operation and performance.
3. The fireplace install location meets and exceeds the manufacturer's recommendation, but I do have reservations about sizing the NG logs to the firebox. This is why I emailed Heatilator, but have not yet gotten a reply. Also, this is not to say I wouldn't be perfectly happy with the reduced, or moe conservative, performance in vented-mode.
All I know is that right now if I choose to heat the family room (only) I have to heat the entire first floor, and maybe cause some back-pressure by closing what registers in unused rooms that have the means to be closed.
>>1. Adding moisture to my home would be a BIG benefit for me.That means you have too many air exchnages and need to weatherize/weatherstrip yopur house.Thinking of a vent free unit as a means of adding mositure is, in my opinion and experience, foolhardy.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I never said I was thinking of using a vent free unit as a means to add moisture. I said I just hadn't looked at it in a byproduct condition as being a bad thing since my house is extremely dry in Winter weather.Also, early on I corrected myself in that I incorrectly stated what I was looking to purchase. In reality its just a gas log set, which said it could be operated in vented or unvented roles. The purchase is based on adding heat to a room. Someone else brought up moisture, and I responded to it.
Right on target. In a tight home, too much moisture is the usual problem. What little moisture need there is will likely be better served by a less potentially-lethal appliance like a humidifier. As a bonus, the humidifier might even maintain the home at the right humidity, i.e. one where mites, dust, mold, and electrostatic zaps are minimized.
More than a year ago we looked at what to do with our fireplace. We rarely used it since it took awhile to get a fire going and then one had to leave the damper open over night to let the fire die out, it was just not used.
We looked at both vented and non-vented. The big problem with vented in MA is that you are required to weld the damper open or remove it. TALK ABOUT HEAT LOSS. We quickly determined that non-vented quality installation with o2, CO and CO2 monitor was the way to go and have been enjoying it ever since. My only complaint is that even when ousdied is below freezing and the fireplace is on low heat, with the house heat off, it gets uncomfortably warm after awhile.
My bottom line comment on this issue is -
With all the comments against non-vented - How many use a gas stove? I know in our house we have always used a gas stove much more than we use the gas fireplace. Also since MA is one of the most conservative states and the state fire marshall provides guidance and requirements for installation, I have a hard time understanding the problem for a properly installed, periodically used non-vented fireplace. Just my thoughts.
With all the comments against non-vented - How many use a gas stove? I know in our house we have always used a gas stove much more than we use the gas fireplace. Also since MA is one of the most conservative states and the state fire marshall provides guidance and requirements for installation, I have a hard time understanding the problem for a properly installed, periodically used non-vented fireplace. Just my thoughts.
I doubt anyone is going to talk about that aspect. And I gas a gas cooktop in the adjacent room. I guess I should leave a window open (even in Winter), get an expensive CO/CO2 monitor, etc., and maybe use my outdoor grill more than I normally do in the Winter. I'd hate to be sleeping one Saturday afternoon as the wife gases me to death.
BTW, I once considered having my home tested for thermal efficiency, but I never did it. Why? Because I didn't want to verify my feeling that this new construction, five year old house is a P.O.S. and let's more breathing go on than swiss on rye. I have weatherstripping in place and it is working, but what isn't working is the lack of basic fundamentals that could have immediately followed the window and door installations, the house wrap (non-existent), sealing the electrical outlets, switches, and fixtures, etc.
But, this deviates from the topic at hand. Ok, someone quoted 450/year die unintentionally from CO or CO2. Am I to conclude this is all from gas logs being employed in vent-free modes of operation? This wasn't made clear. Being a doubting thomas, and the fact that my P.O.S. breaths too well on its own, I'm equally doubting I couldn't intentionally gas myself to death if I were so inclined. Its also why I was focusing on one room heating on the first floor (why heat 1200 SqFt first floor if 80% of the use is in the family room).
Now I finally get a response from Heatilator, and I am being told conflicting information compared to the manual. The Heatilator rep is saying that the E42 model I have is optioned for a gas starter burner for starting wood fires, and not for gas logs. I responded by pointing out the manual statements and they just told me to contact a dealer and not them. Nice. Still thinking of moving back north where cavemen knew how to make fire for warmth.
Ok, so I've given up on the wood/corn-pellet thing because of unavailable supplies and products in the Atlanta area, the almost non-existent fuel due to the rash increase in demand, etc., and now given up on using NG in an unvented manner, both in the fireplace and on the cooktop. I've gone back to electric blankets. Now watch me burn to death on evening.
I am amazed and disappointed that both the federal, state, and county levels of government haven't addressed in code the necessary requirements be put in place for using NG logs in vent-free roles in single-family dwellings. Given the information the wisdom of FHB has presented, its insane, no? I feel like I should be standing in the parking lots of HD during winter to sell the CO/CO2 monitors and help save lives and make money off of fears I generate in such a righteous manner. Hahaha. <evil laugh>
>>With all the comments against non-vented - How many use a gas stove? I know in our house we have always used a gas stove much more than we use the gas fireplace. Also since MA is one of the most conservative states and the state fire marshall provides guidance and requirements for installation, I have a hard time understanding the problem for a properly installed, periodically used non-vented fireplace. Just my thoughts.>>I doubt anyone is going to talk about that aspect.I mentioned it: the maximum CO allowed for unvented stoves is twice what is allowed for vented appliances!Doesn't make it right.And Thanksgiving is the day of the year with the highest CO poisoning ER visits in hospitals. Thank that slow cooked turkey.>>I have a hard time understanding the problem for a properly installed, periodically used non-vented fireplace.As long as everything is working OK. no problem.But how do you know everything is working OK?Using a cheap CO detector will save you from the killer levels, but can allow dangerous long term low levels of exposure.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I would suggest you get a ventless unit that was intended to be ventless from the factory. altering a vented type would not be "safe" as non of the protection is built in. I have ventless and it works fine and for over kill two CO detectors which have yet to read anything.(they have been tested when the wife left the car running outside the garage open door, a quick sniff and off they went)
Nuke:
I have one of these vent-free sets installed in our fireplace.
Some background. This is in a house built in the mid-60's, and it is not a "tight" house....so ventilation isn't an issue. It is also a large house with no doors restricting air flow/circulation through the room with the fireplace. Here in Boise, Idaho, the winter air is *very* dry, so the added moisture from the non-vented isn't an issue.
We've had it installed for about 5 years and haven't noticed a single issue.
I've heard of the issues raised by the other respondents to this post, but in our setting, we haven't had any problems, and it doesn't set off our CO alarm....
Your mileage may vary.... --Ken
Globaldiver, I know what you mean about older homes and how they can be far from tight. Mine is relatively new (~5 years old), but its not tight either, thanks to poor construction and even poorer inspection/codes. Its nbice having double-pane windows, but with zero insulation, wrapping, etc., etc., etc. its a worthless benefit.
>>I've heard of the issues raised by the other respondents to this post, but in our setting, we haven't had any problems, and it doesn't set off our CO alarm....>>Your mileage may vary.... --KenAnd your mileage may change.What kind of CO detector and how old is it and where is it mounted?If it doesn't have a digital readout, is more than the manufacturer's recommended replacement age, or is mounted low on the wall, you might not be getting an accurate picture of possible CO issues.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
I would never use a vent free unit. It defies all logic.
Still not sure? Disconnect the flue pipe from your furnace (its natural gas too right?)for a few days.
My old man spent last winter living/remodeling his bosses summer home. He slept in the florida room with a vent free heat unit. He didnt die, but he did start having black out spells. I worked up there with him for about a month and hated going in in the morning. The air felt heavy, like there was not enough oxygen.
I would skip on trying to heat with a gas fireplace, your better off opening a window and throwing your money out the window.
The Gas is allready in the room, try one of the Riniia heaters. All it takes is a gas line,some 110 power & a 3 1/8" hole in an exterior wall to vent it.
Best heater & value for the money. For more info.....
http://www.alsheating.com/RinnaiHeater.htm
Wow, and only starting at about a thousand dollars to add heat to one room. lol And I though spending $150-200 on a gas log set was pricey.
You can get a small one for under $450 that will heat the area you need, better & cheaper than any fireplace could.
well i,m going to hop into this disscussion with my 2 cents worth as a owner. my old house had a fireplace like your,made to burn wood,but we slid a set of logs into it.the damper was cracked open and glass doors in place. looked good burning with no problems.not alot of heat until it was on for about a hour. now in the new house we put in a ventless unit becuse it sits in the middle of the house with no practical way of venting. looks pretty good,puts out a lot of heat,BUT if the pilot light is burning day and night i can smell it when i walk in the door thats it's on.not terrible but it's like grandmas stove used to smell! so iii turn the pilot light off when ever were not using it and that way don't havve to worry about it. to tell you what i really think of it ,i'm getting ready to install the second one in the living room next week.so i guess i'm pretty happy with it,but we are not big fireplace people,maybe light it once a week during winter for a little ambiance and then for maybe 3-4 hours at most becuase it gets so hot in room. by the way ours come from lowes,if you watch in about 2 weeks they will reduce them to 1/2.larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.