around the corner from me they built this “green house” it was designed by University of Memphis… several dept’s…. so i do a walk through at lunch… all these people are pat’n themself on the back about it… it has a few solar panels… 12″ thich walls … concrete filled foam blocks… not sure which system they used… lots of bambo some concrete… a grey water collection system (55gal) that they are all proud of…
they spent $210k on 1800sf $114sf… and are selling it for the same…
the deal is… everything was donated… which they did not include in the cost…
I’m not sure how they spent the 210k… the lot was free… the utility hook-up free… the blocks free… the concrete free… the roof… free… the windows/doors free…. the landscape free… the concrete counters FREE… cabinets…closet system… ect… all FREE… and they still spent 210k…
and… it’s one bedroom BUT a really nice 2 car garage… they say 2br but the second is maybe 9 x 10… maybe….
and i might be wrong on this but the out side balcony and the inside catwalk rail is at 36″ pretty sure my stuff 2 blocks over HAD to be 42″…. i didn’t have a tape with me but the rail was under my belt and i wear a 34″ jean… i mean it felt so wrong…
and how much can you water with 55 gallons?… what would the payback be on that puppy? if one it consumes about 10sf even with their stated cost of $114sf… thats $456 worth of floor space… not counting the cost of the “system”
the home showed nice… but overall the craftsmanship was lacking…. use of space really sucked… but… they seem to be proud…
I can’t see where they proved or showed anything… except if you jump up & down and yell “green project” companies will give you stuff…
(the showers were nice)
P:)
Replies
They built an "Eco Home" up from me. Really a pretty decent house--9" walls, solar hw, photovoltaic, etc. Trouble is, the thing is about 460 k for 1500 square feet. After being on the market for over a year someones finally living in it, but I think they might be renters.
At that price, the power company would have to pay ME to live there before I'd buy it.
They probably got a bunch of grant money and used it to support a handful of graduate students and a few profs, all of whom probably logged a fair number of "design" and "project management" hours. That does seem pricey, considering what was donated. It's unfortunate that they don't provide a breakdown of real costs because that would actually be useful information.
Another reason why per foot costs usually don't mean squat.
I knew what to expect when you said designed by the University.
There's some truth in the expression
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.
Plus they probably had design by committee and a lot of student input.
I'm guessing they are proud they could get it built, forget about it being the paradigm of an ECO house.
Might be a good fund raiser for the students springtime blowout.
How many unsuccessful builders or tradespeople who move on over into academia do you actually know?How can you understand God if you can't understand people? How can you understand people if you can't understand yourself?
"How many unsuccessful builders or tradespeople who move on over into academia do you actually know?"TwoBut they were not unsuccessful in the trades, they never even attempted to work in what they are teaching. It has been several decades since my 8 years in college, and I mean no disrespect to the students. Success will follow as you say, in this case it appears progress is minimal.
My point was that if someone were unsuccesful in the trades, it is unlikely that they would have what it takes in motivation or ability to go to college. Since you said the two you knew were not unsuccessful in the trades, I could say that you support my point and that you actually don't know anyone who was unsuccesful (a failure) in the trades and went on to college.How can you understand God if you can't understand people? How can you understand people if you can't understand yourself?
Bet they all felt good though.
Self esteem is muy importante.
Joe H
Small builders will increasingly be building stuff like you saw, and it will make more sense and cost less when more people are doing it. With EVERYTHING expected to become more scarce, living spaces will get smaller, more energy efficient, use less water and possibly recycle it, etc.
There was a pretty cool expo on the Mall in Washington, 2-3 years ago. College students from all over designed zero energy houses and brought them there to show. I read several write-ups on it, there was lots of cool stuff. I wonder how much diesel was burned moving the houses to and from DC...?
good ideas are great... but no builder could build this house and stay in business as a builder....
not what it cost to build but what would it cost to reproduce? with most of the material "gifted" who knows...
55 gallons of grey water in a KITCHEN closet? what can you do with 55 gallons? my RV holds 80 gallons of grey water... we are in an area where we have water... hell they are within sight of the mississippi river... do they really need "grey water".... just because it's a good idea one place... doesn't make it right for another...
one bedroom upstairs... master with a bath... duel flush toilets (donated) that they were real proud of... but what a waste... one bedroom up... with a catwalk over look'n the "great room" (36" cable rail here).... so all the wasted space on this (cat walk area) useless....
the master closet was as long as the catwalk... but you could only use one side of it... the rest was hallway... far more sf of hall than closet...
I agree builders to survive will find ways to build smarter and decrease the cost of home ownership by building low maint. ... by design and material choices...
I know i can do it... but if you are going to live on 20% 20% of 400k is alot better than 20% of 175k... for the exact same amount of trouble...
p
Ponytl
My son is in his freshman year at U of M Architecture school so this is his upper classman's and teachers project.
So I will and try and find out more about actual cost and design.
He has just started a project where he has to design and model a sustainable small getaway house for a stand up comedian in a small community area that will have hike in only access and a common green area adjoining to all houses .
He is not sure if it is a real project or one concocted for a class project but he has till next thursday.So he will be working day and night all this week.
I will defend one aspect of Arch. school. I am amazed at how much information he has to learn on how to draw and build models and learn about modeling materials etc., along with history etc., this has been a real eye opener for me.
Ponytl would you be interested in giving a tour and lecture to one of his classes as I can think of none better at resourcefulness and reusablity of materials as your condo project?
ANDYSZ2
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
i give tours everyday :) if nothing else you know i love to preach :) I about grabbed some f the guys from that house and dragged em over...
the only "reuse" at the "eco house" was that they said the drywall was made of 99% recycled material...
I'm putting together some sales stuff on my condos... which i think are pretty "green"... my writing might get pretty creative... but I think/believe even when you buy product material direct from a plant... there is a ton of shippng & warehousing that doesn't happen...
I can't think of anything i have used that wasn't recycled or renewable...
i do know they have a great program over there... and i accept the fact that any hands on experience is good for anyone who is going to be designing something that others will have to construct...
p
David,That was probably the Solar Decathlon. Not sure if it happens each year, but the next one is scheduled for this October.http://www.solardecathlon.orgBest,
Steve'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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was physical labour donated??
I'm sure some install type labor was.. i saw trades people building it so i'm guess'n most expense was in labor....
p
I think the "green" is referring to the money to go into the pockets of the manufacturers and contractors who can convince people that buying a house like that is the "morally right" thing to do.
For most of us, the numbers just don't make sense.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
"green" has replaced sex as a means to make anything sell
now we need green sex
p
Sounds painful.Or smelly.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Did you take photos?
Well, indifferent design & execution are just that, regardless of color. Often these "showcase" projects merely display sets of ideas that may not make sense in total. As you implied, a real house is not divorced from it's context in this way, and that's a part of these things that seldom gets communicated to the general public. And so, you end up with ICF walls in South Carolina because "it's supposed to be green".
I'm as much a tree hugger as you'll find, and I prefer to work with builders who employ sustainable practices where applicable (which is a lot more complex than just "possible") without touting greenness as the main reason to hire them.
}}}}
The first step of eco-building is to have the right goal and the desire to get there. You don't have to get the results exactly right in the beginning. Think of some other areas where the first attempt will generally fall short of eventual success.
OK: Sex, writing a poem, building a great house, sailing a boat, making a souffle...
Our university students and government are building the right frame of mind. Success will follow.
Here's an article on a Builders' Showcase house from Builders' Show in Las Vegas. From the SF Chronicle. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/03/01/RE4G15VPMB.DTLJohn
I agree with you there. There is always an "experimental" stage that new ideas go through before all or part of it catches on. When Apple invented the personal computer it was essentially an experiemnt. It took maybe ten years before many of the ideas behind it were refined and adopted by others in the industry. Same thing with VCR's. The first Beta max had something like a one hour record time, was a huge box and cost over $1000.00. Before the last VCR was made I think one could be had for $50.00.
Exactly. A friend of mind was given one of the first digital watches in around 1974, which at the time cost $300 and never consistently told the time. You can now buy a watch that would have then been considered a sophisticated computer back then for ten bucks. Why would green technologies be immune to the same development processes that other non-green technologies go through?
Anyway, all "idea" houses cost the earth. Look at the ones Sunset magazine regularly publishes, or the "dream homes" featured at building shows. Even the vent hoods are a couple of grand each and they don't sure don't save the planet.
the deal here is they didn't invent anything... push any limits.... or promote anything new...
what i saw was alot of "green" products supplied by manufactures (i guess whoever would toss something in) and it's being promoted as innovative.. and it's not... yes it's great to expose these students to these 'products" but don't beat your chest... as i was looking at the 55gal grey water system...i had one of the students... ask..""you know what that is" all ahppy want waiting to explain it... I said yeah it's a 55 gallon grey water system... he was kinda shocked i knew... then he told me it was the first one in the state... OK? i told him to read mother earth news... they had a small bank of solar panels on the roof... i have no idea what they did... i saw no mechanicals to go with them... and it was maybe 10 45watt panels...
i did watch the build.. i know they had 4 30-40yd trash containers there at one time... and i know they were dumped at least once... (i look for stuff so i know)
if i had seen one something that stood out i'd be telling you about it...
it's a nice house... i just think they missed a chance to really do something..
p
My rely to Ted above doesn't seem to reflect at all what you saw. It does sound like a bunch of shills.
And then there is the Tedd Benson approach:
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http://www.bensonwood.com/unity/netzero.cfm
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
As you mention maybe nothing there was truly innovative in your experience. But as you mention it was a learning environment. And for students that may not have ever been exposed to these things it serves as a basic springboard for future exploration.
I teach in an architecture school and I can say without a doubt that most stuff 1st and 2nd year design students do is pretty much reinvent the wheel.
They feel like they are being innovative. Truth is I've been teaching for 12 years now and each go around its pretty much the same spin with a personal twist here and there. But that is not what is important. What's important at that stage is the grasping of basic concepts. Even 3rd and 4th year students still grapple with mastering intermediate design concepts and introducing things like the "Eco"-house you mention usually serve as the foundation or as a primer in their training. Like any professional discipline architecture is a life-long learning experience. Technology is just one of the many facets that architects need to adapt to in order to stay abreast in their profession. There are constant code revisions, economic conditions, societal shifts, etc. that also contribute to an ongoing education.
maybe i was just expecting more?
i went in expecting... wanting to see something new... what i got was 10yo popular science...
I guess if you don't expect anything you'll never be disapointed....
I do see and understand your points... everyone has to start somewhere... this was a joint thing with the local utility.... so
p
"I've been teaching for 12 years now and each go around its pretty much the same spin with a personal twist here and there. But that is not what is important. What's important at that stage is the grasping of basic concepts. Even 3rd and 4th year students still grapple with mastering intermediate design concepts and introducing things"
True, but one of the things I find annoying about student work is their common inability to distinguish between personal discovery and what might be of wider interest.
I recall a memorable critique during which a student was quite dismissive of the work he was presenting, insisting the real value was what he had learned in the process. To which the professor replied " It's architecture, not therapy".