Hello – I just spent several hours scanning the search results on vinyl composite tiles but still have some lingering questions.
After much mulling over various flooring choices for a basement remodel, I am leaning toward the Armstrong 12×12″ vinyl composite tiles.
Currently there are older tiles, which also seem to be vinyl composites (the texture runs all the way through) that is held down with black-tar like adhesive on concrete basement floor.
Will this black tar stuff cause any installation problems if the newer adhesive is spread over it for the new tiles ?
(The old tiles are coming off clean without falling apart with very little effort.)
The tar isn’t producing any serious irregularities on the concrete
and I don’t forsee any problems with it telegraphing through.
Also, how noxious is the adhesives used for VCT installation ?
All of them, no matter which brand, says “solvent free”.
I’m wondering how long it will take for the odor to dissipate after installing the tiles.
And, finally, are these modern adhesives super tacky and will be difficult to deal with in future removal/replacements ?
Thanks for any feedback.
Replies
The black adhesive is what we use to call cut glue. Good stuff, but messy and since it was high in VOC, was replaced in late 80s by the new latex based adhesives. It is a solvent base, so you should have no problem going over it with the new glue.
The newer adhesives are water base and relatively low odor because they contain very little, if any, solvent. A lot depends on your sensitivity to smelly stuff when you ask how long the odor will be noticeable. I have used a lot of it in commercial office environments with mixed results on the smell issue. Ussually the issue is gone within 24 hours, but most commecrial building have a higher percentage of make up air and more air turn over than houses. If the odor bothers you, just open your windows, place some fans around, and turn your HVAC air handler to the fan only position.
The newer water based glues are pretty good, although somewhat less water resistant after set up than the old cut glue. Replacing damaged tile with either type glue is straight forward if you have a heat gun. just heat up the damaged tile(s) and lift them out with a putty knife, reapply glue and new tile.
Dave
Thank-you, Dave -
"Cut glue" - now I have a name !
I've seen this in most older homes, so it's good to know what it is.
And thank-you for info on the current stuff used, which seems to be clear and yes, water-based.
While at Lowes to look at the Armstrong tiles, the person showed me a tile cutter (around $44) that looked like a manual ceramic tile cutter - lever arm, rotary blade on a slider rod assemby and looks like a paper cutter. He said it would work easier then trying to score/snap with a utility knife if I had a large job.
Is that a common tool for VCT installers ?
Don't mind getting one because I'm planning on more installations.
Just want to make sure he wasn't showing me a ceramic tile cutter - the box didn't say "ceramic". The ceramic cutter box says "ceramic" and costs only around $20.
Thanks for your help,
Alan
The "cutback" adhesive should be scraped down to as smooth as possible, to get rid of the ridges. Make sure the adhesive you use is rated for use over cutback, as well as solvent free. I usually use UltraBond ECO600
Some of the old cutback adhesives can contain asbestos.
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Edited 4/21/2003 11:02:04 AM ET by Barry E
Barry
Thank-you for your note.
This aesbestos thing takes all sorts of turns as I find out more about old flooring.
I thought the tiles themselves can contain aesbestos on the backing side, especially if it has a whitish appearance instead of the solid pattern all the way through...
Over the years I've been scrutinizing loose pieces or spots where tiles are missing anytime I'm in an older house.
I noticed some tiles are somewhat pliable and crack when bent far enough, somewhat like the VCT tiles.
And I've seen tiles that are stiff/hard like a very thin piece of slate.
Most of the tiles I've seen the pattern is on both sides.
So far all the floors I've seen are put down with the black cutback adhesive.
Is there a mechanical means of scraping down this stuff or any recommended solvents ?
Luckily I have only a small area in a walkout basement to deal with.
Thanks for the heads up on the cutback adhesive.
I use a 10" drywall knife (old) to scrape down the ridges. I haven't seen the tile cutter you descibed, but the paper cutter desciption sounds like a VTC cutter. Mine cost about $125.00 17 years ago. It is on wheels so I can roll it around with me. I also made a small dolly that I can stack 3-4 boxes of tile on and roll them around too, once the adhesive has set enough to lay the start point.
By the way, read the instructions on the glue can. I use a Henry tile adhesive, and with it you wait untill the glues has set (turns clear) before you start putting down tile. Start to soon with the tile and the glue will squeeze out between the tiles and make mess of the job. Cleaning it up after is a pain because it is no longer water soluable. You have to use mineral spirits, and there go the low odor :-)
Another item you might want to get is a heat gun. For those oddball cuts where the tile cutter won't work. Mark the cut line on a tile and heat it up with the heat gun. Cut the line with a utility knife or a heavey duty pair of scissors. In a pinch I have use a torch to heat the tile, but you have to be really carefull not to scorch it or burn yourself. the heat gun also come in handy for taking up old or damaged tile, not mention taking those peel and press decals off the kids bike.
Dave
Thank-you for the tips, Dave -
The dolley sounds like a great idea - I have a moving dolley with four wheels that's used laid down for rolling around with a load and also to sit on while working on a floor or patio.
Also have four heavy duty swivel wheels ready for mounting on a board platform.
Heat gun I don't have yet but I need one for some other tasks anyway.
I am basically ready to hit the pavement running after some prep work.
Maybe someone can answer some of the questions I raised in my last post.
Thanks for your help,
Alan
Barry -
Where can I find this UltraBond stuff ?
I'm guessing this is rated for use over cutback adhesive ?
Thanks,
Alan
Barry -
Never mind about the UltraBond.
Contacted them and it sounds like it's a specialized product that offers moisture protection underneath the flooring, which I have no concerns with.
And the stuff costs......$250 for a 4-gallon bucket !!
Yikes.
They don't seem to know about or list the "Eco600".
Alan
Ouch. I might have the # wrong, I think it's from Mapei. I have a bucket of it out at the shop. I can get the # tomorrow if ya need it. But anything that's rated for cutback should be fine, but there is a difference. Ask your supplier. Most of the stuff I've seen is black instead of white
Have fun
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Barry E
Thanks, Barry -
Please don't go out of your way.
Mapei name is familiar - they sponsor one of the bicycle teams.