Here are a couple shots of the wainscot I just finished for our new construction. My trim guy (the great DougU alias Doug@es) didn’t have time to do it before he had to head back to TX so I did it. I know that he could have done it in 1/10 the time it took me but this way I have a part of the trim work I can claim as my own. Many thanks to Doug for answering my endless questions and Gary Striegler for his wainscot article in FHB.
Regards,
Dennis
Replies
Beautiful work!! Did you buy the raised panels or make them? Looks like you made them, right. Use a router or shaper or table saw?
Details son, details.
Be well
andy
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
Edited 8/25/2005 4:26 am ET by andybuildz
Andy,
Thanks! the panels are MDF and I routed them on a cobbled up plywood table as my bench dog router table was too shallow. Unfortunately I used two different brands of MDF for the panels and one routed great and the other was full of pits. Nothing a little filler couldn't fix. I used the same panel bit Doug used for the raised panels on out mantle which also matches the kitchen cabinets.
Regards,
Dennis
MDF panels? how did it all come together? we need details!!
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Justin,
I pretty much followed Gary's article from FHB. It took a lot longer than I expected but actually went pretty smoothly (OK except for having to remake one of the MDF panels because I screwed up the location of the outlet cutout).
One thing that wasn't clear in Gary's article was the use of a sacrificial piece of wood the thickness of the rails/stiles to elevate the moulding to the proper height when cutting the panel moulding miters. This is correct for the top panel moulding/chair rail, but the panel mouldings needed to be cut with a sacrificial piece the thickness of the difference between the rail thickness and the mdf panel thickness.
I still have some caulking to do and some paint touch up but overall I am pretty happy with the way they turned out. Especially since I had never attempted anything like this before.
Regards,
Dennis
"...a sacrificial piece the thickness of the difference between the rail thickness and the mdf panel thickness."
...I'm still trying to figure out how you managed to use the word "thickness" three times in one sentence! :) Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
62262.7 in reply to 62262.5
...I'm still trying to figure out how you managed to use the word "thickness" three times in one sentence! :)
Yeah that's why I don't write for a magazine. :)
Dennis
Cool, now like someone else said, stand back and take some better pictures geesh.
Doug,
You've been there. The room is only 12'x12' if I stand back much further I am in the dam kitchen. OK Here are a couple shots taken as far back as I can get. I am also attaching a picture of the mantle you built.
Dennis
Dennis
It really looks good, I think I'm going to switch careers here and just do advice work over the phone.
When are you having the final inspection? Just wondering what I'm going to be doing on my mini vacation!
Oh, do you still need Jose for this weekend? I think he is planning on coming up. He got the car semi running so he has transportation.
I see you still have plenty touch up paint to do.
Doug
Doug,
I am hoping for final inspection next Friday. Of course that is dependent on if we can get the hvac, plumbing and electrical inspections done by then.
With any luck on your mini vacation all you and Sonya will be doing is sitting on the deck with us with good old Iowa beef cooking on the grill.
Jose is coming up on Saturday and I may put him to work helping me insulate the basement. This is on my dime though so he still owes you.
Dennis
With any luck on your mini vacation all you and Sonya will be doing is sitting on the deck with us with good old Iowa beef cooking on the grill.
Whereabouts are you DJJ? I spent a few years in Ames a lifetime ago. Had some friends from the Red Oak area visiting last week (got some of that IA beef in the feezer now).
jt8
"Someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." --Warren Buffett
John
I knew a set of twins from Red Oak, names Margaret and Martha, they were a couple cuties. Long long time ago though.
Doug
Let me add my kudos. Very nice work. I defintely won't let my wife see these pictures!
Let me add my kudos. Very nice work. I defintely won't let my wife see these pictures!
MINIMIZE....MINIMIZE! She's looking over your shoulder! ;)
jt8
"Someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." --Warren Buffett
John,
I am in Waterloo/Cedar Falls. Yep, corn fed beef is hard to beat.
Dennis
Great looking mantle Doug, that's some nice work. Love seeing talent like that.
beautiful mantle.
I love nicely executed trim work. Yours certainly qualifies. The offsets, the returns, layers and panels are a work of art. You have a right to be proud of yourself, especially if this is one of your first. Looks like you had a good teacher!
Question on the mantle - how were the curved pieces set up and cut? Was each piece individually worked off a form, or were you lucky enough to find precuts that fit your needs?
Don
Don,
"...art"? I wouldn't't use 'art' to describe anything I have done. Not unless you spell art with an 'f'. Thanks for the kind words though.
DougU is the real artisan, I am just lucky my wainscot is in a different room from his mantle so it is tougher to make comparisons between his great trim work and my great caulk work.
Doug can give you information on the mantle although I think he freehanded the curves on the raised panels.
Regards,
Dennis
Wow, now that's encouraging. I'm going to attempt the same thing for the first time this winter while we're remodeling the first floor. Good to know that someone can pull that off the first time..... if my results are half as good I'll be doing just fine. Great looking job. Is this your own home? As usual, my own house will be the guinea pig for something I try for the first time and this will be my first attempt at wainscot.
Yeah... I know.... the framer's gonna try to run trim...... I can see y'all shaking your heads from here! :)
Thanks, yes it is our new home. And if a computer guy can do it so can the framer...well maybe not my framer. If my framer did it it would be a lot less plumb and at least one wall would be off by 6" from where it is supposed to be.
Regards,
Dennis
damn that is a nice fireplace thing! what paint is that?
"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know" Ralph Waldo Emerson
Sherwin Williams Pro Classic waterborne sprayed
sweet"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know" Ralph Waldo Emerson
What FHB issue number was Gary's article in? I would like to get a copy/read Gary's explanation of his techniques.
It was in the Aug/Sep '04 issue.
Dennis
Cool! I have been wanting to use that article, but haven't had a good location to try it out on.
Can you give us a couple more pics? And stand back and take a pic so that we can see how it looks in the room.
jt8
"Someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." --Warren Buffett
Nice work! Did you make the moulding around the edges of the MDF panel, or is that custom cut on a router table too? Are the panels loose or joined (biscuits, etc.)?
I've never done panels, cabinet doors, etc. but hoping to do something like this soon!
Thanks!
KidBuilder,
The two panel mouldings were from White River Hardwoods (http://www.mouldings.com). The raised panels are nailed and glued to the wall.
Thanks and regards,
Dennis
DJJ,
Very nice work. I am about to put the same raised panel finish work in my entryway, but I have one question, I'd like to get your input. Most of the panels will be between 30 and 36 inches wide. I have two wall segments that are 48 inches wide. Would you make a single panel (about 42 inches wide when you count the stiles) or would you break it up into two panels (which would reduce the panel width to only 18 inches)?
And what panel raising router bit did you use?
Thanks.
Frank R.
Edited 3/2/2006 9:50 pm ET by FrankR
Frank,
I went back and forth a lot on the panel sizing. I played around with the stile/rail width and panel sizes a lot to get a layout I liked. Most of my panels are within about 6 inches of each other (18" - 24")
I decided to base all my panel sizes off of the smallest section (on either side of the window) and use that as my baseline and to get all the other panel sizes close. I think it also depends on how the panel sizes match up on adjoining walls. For example, I don't have more than 3" difference in size between the panels on adjoining walls. This helps a lot to hide the differences in sizes. In your case though I think that the difference between 30", 36" and 42" would be less noticeable than 36" and 18".
Heck snap your lines on the wall and see how it looks. If you don't like the sizing, clean the wall and start over.
The raised panel bit I used was a Freud 2+2 1 1/2" panel bit, I think number 99-518/519.
Good luck,
Dennis
Oh sure, I drive 1000 miles to have lunch with you and your too busy but you got time to answer question on the net!!! Some friends
Doug
Oh sure, I drive 1000 miles to have lunch with you and your too busy but you got time to answer question on the net!!! Some friends
And you were too busy with your half blind, half-wit buddy to call me back last night. Some friend you are. Hey we are both shiddy friends, guess we deserve each other..uhh in a very manly non-brokeback mountain kind of way.
OK I will shut up now.
I dont appreciate you calling my friends half wit and half blind.
I think his eye sight is getting better! Plus he's having marital problems.
Doug
Dennis,
Thanks. I'll take your advice and snap the lines and take a look. I've used Gary's articles before for projects (fireplace mantel, window seats) and all of the projects have come out great. He has a DVD from KREG that gives some really good ideas for other trim work.
Frank R.
Just saw this thread.
Nice work- and Doug's mantle isn't too shabby either.
Not a darn thing there I wouldn't be proud to have on my jobs!
You did some head scratching on the layout that worked well, I see.
What is the flooring there? Red birch is my guess followed by oak
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Piffin,
Thanks, I appreciate it! It turned out pretty well considering I had never attempted anything like that before.
Good eye; the flooring is red birch with a satin waterborne finish on it (streetshoe XL) We have natural Cherry cabinets and wanted something lighter than the cabs but still with some red tones in it.
Regards,
Dennis
Good choice. We call red birch the poor man's cherry because it is so similar in colour esp when finished right.It works a lot easier though.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I think the way you returned your 'running trim' into your standing trim is the best! that is one of the tougher decisions to make, and it looks like the right call. good job
Pete,
I wanted to use that same return method with the top chair rail/bollection molding but just couldn't come up with an angle for the return that would mate up properly with the door and window casing.
Regards,
Dennis
that really looks nice!
one question, how do you determine the uniformity of size of panel? do you divide the wall equally no matter if the panel size differs from wall to wall, or do stay consistent from wall to wall and end up (sometimes) with partial sized panels?
thanks
do you divide the wall equally no matter if the panel size differs from wall to wall,
That is what I did. I used the smallest wall section(~30") as my starting point for the panel size. Then I used that rough panel size as the guideline for my other walls and determined the number of panels that would give me that rough size.
I actually set up an excel spreadsheet that let me change the rail/stile size, number of panels per wall etc that helped me come up with the best sizing/layout pretty quickly. Once I had that I snapped lines on the wall to see how they layout actually looked.
Regards,
Dennis
thank you very much
DJJ,
Can you tell me how you cut the back-bevel on the base molding to bring it back into the casing on your wainscot? Is it just a self-return at a different angle or is there a trick to it (other than trial and error).
Thanks DJJ. Nice work.
Frank R.
I wasn't there to see, but I will take a guess. Being a painted job, those are simple miter cuts, with the endgrain sealed well, sanded, and then painted.
I've done painted work, that's what I did, and it turned out well.
Gene
If you read djj posts you'll see that he had a top notch carpenter on that house!
No end grain showing
Doug
Doug, you know me, I can do facegrained returns almost as good as you.
But for a painted job? For that little base detail? Gimme a break! Let's concentrate our efforts on the stuff that really counts, unless of course, the client is paying us by the hour.
Last painted trim job I did, got started by a guy I hired, a topnotch carp that lurks round here and likes to throw a stone at me occasionally. Had all kinds of end grain situations, and I never heard him even say the words "mitered return." Gene the Hack finished the job after he left, and never did a mitered return either.
And it all looks first class, in its lustrous Sherwin Williams acrylic finish.
Now I will admit, that for that molding profile used as a base under the wainscot, in the photo shown earlier, that a mitered return end is going to look different from a plain miter. But not much, and down around your toes, only the purists among us are going to notice it. Ninety nine percent of the public would just take in the whole show, and say "Ahhhhhh! How nice."
Gene
I didn't do much of the work in the room pictured and I don't recall doing any, or at least not many, returns like that in that particular house.
I just couldn't help but get a little dig in, that's all.
I agree that in most, but certainly not all, situations a simple bevel on the base or shoe when painted is more then adequate.
Doug
Frank
This is how he did the returns, I know because I showed him how!
Very simple, first; cut your base or whatever your doing, to 22 1/2° like in the picture.
Second; take your off fall and reverse your miter saw and cut the opposite 22 1/2°
Third; take that piece and back cut it 45° and that will give you your return.
I prefer this method over the simple 22 1/2° returns, looks mo better in my opinion.
Doug
Frank,
Thanks!
Doug U taught me...see his post above.
Regards,
Dennis
Whatsamatter, you cant answer your phone!
Doug
DJJ and Doug,
Nice work and thanks for the tips. This is my own house so I can take the time to make the extra cuts. I'm making my own casing from 1x6 poplar with a routed bead and applied moldings. Because of the wainscot, the only way to have the casing extend beyond the base is to use 5/4 poplar for the casing - which I'm leary of doing for 11 doors in a house with forced hot air heat.
Thanks again for the help.
Frank R.
use 5/4 poplar for the casing - which I'm leary of doing for 11 doors in a house with forced hot air heat.
Are you worried about warp/twist?
Make some relief cuts in the back side of the casing, if its say 4" wide I'd run three cuts on the back side, set the table saw with the blade up about 1/2" and run all your casing over it.
Or better yet if you got a shaper hog out the back side(leaving a U shape on the back, only needs to be 1/4" deep) and you'll have a easier time installing and it will be less likely to warp on you.
And remember, we all like pictures.
Doug
Doug,
First, Thanks for the info. When I finish a section of casing/wainscot, I'll post pictures. I'm actually doing the upstairs hallway first so, if I have to make any adjustments, I can correct them for the downstairs foyer - which will be much more visible.
Second, providing I put in a few back cuts, you don't think there is any real difference between casing out the doors with 5/4 stock as opposed to 1x?
Thanks again.
Is your casing a true 5/4 or is it closer to 1"?
I dont see why you cant use it but I'd deffinitly put the back cuts in it.
Another option and this applies to your trim style, but you can back band the 1 X trim if you didnt want to use 5/4. Figure out a way that looks like it goes with your trim style and you can save some dough. If I was using 1 X I would still add the cuts on the back side.
Doug
Doug,
The sample I made was about about 1 and 1/8, so it is a bit heftier than the 1x stock. My wife and I went through numerous catalogs (White River and some local millwork shops) and the casing she finally settled on was the one I fabricated myself. I sampled a bunch of backbands, but she didn't like anything I was coming up with. I'm going to use your base molding bevels on the upstairs hallway, run the 1x stock over the table saw, put it up and see how she likes it. I can always go to the 5/4 stock or plinth blocks downstairs. I'll post pictures in about a month.
One final question. (I promise) I'm using White River PM 577 as the cap for the wainscot. How did you taper that into your casing?
FR
I went to the site to see the moulding that you were talking about and it looks similar if not the same as djj used.
In his case the moulding protruded just slightly proud of the casing so there really wasnt a way to return it to the case. I think djj just made a simple bevel cut on the end so that you wouldnt have that butt edge proud of your casing.
You could practice and see if you can return it back like the base but if its only a slight protrusion that I dont know that it will even show up, sort-of-a trial and error thing.
And dont hesitate to ask more questions if you need to, not a problem.
On another note, if you have a dado head for your table saw it would give you better results for back cutting your casing, especially if you only leave around 1/2" on either side for the legs of the "U", makes it easier to fit to problem dry wall.
Doug
Doug
Frank,
I think that was the white river part number I used. I tried doing a return on the top panel moulding to meet the casing but couldn't get it to look right because of how much belly it has. So I just clipped them off at the same angle as the returns I did on the base. I wasn't as happy with that approach but the wife was on my butt to move in and that was about the last thing I had to do before final inspections.
Regards,
Dennis
Thanks again guys. I think I'm ready to roll. I'm waiting on the local lumber yard to deliver the materials. I will post pictures when I get a segment done.
Frank
Frank
The pic's are a little to big, I resized them.
Funny how a little paint makes a big difference.
Doug
Thanks Doug. I was trying to re-size them, but couldn't so I didn't even think I attached them when I posted my response (which is why I didn't mention them in my response). That mantel was from a family room remodel. I took out a knee wall and built a full wall between the kitchen and family room with an arched doorway. I formed an arch template with a router and trammel and used the same template for both the arch in the doorway and the arch in the mantel. (The doorway is over 6 feet wide, but the rise/run are the same) Both are in line of sight from the kitchen island so I wanted to make sure the arches were similar.
I expect to post pictures within a few weeks. I actually have to take out the drywall under the wainscot to move a few mechanicals (HVAC vents, central vac) before I can start putting up the wainscot.
Do you ever use a thickness planer?
Frank R.
Do you ever use a thickness planer?
All the time, but why do you ask?
Doug
Doug,
On my first project (9 foot window seat in the master bedroom) my stock had slightly different thickness and every joint required a substantial amount of sanding. I have three larger projects coming up and I was thinking of picking up a thickness planter to clean up all of my stock before I start. I love getting new tools but I didn't want to pick one up if I really wouldn't get any benefit from it.
FR
You'll use the thickness planner.There was one over at knots for sale, I think the portable Delta planner and it was $200 if I remember right.
The other thing that you can do is take your wood to a local shop and have them run it through for you, there should be someone around that will do it.
Doug