I’m designing and installing some wainscotting in the Dining room. It is going to be stile and rail with molding. Not beadboard. Not all the walls are the same.
Where do I vary the dimensions? In the panels or the stiles? What is the typical thing to do?
I know I can make adjustments at the corners but they will not take up all the slack.
Any help would be appreciated.
Len
Replies
Lot's of ways.
Try posting the dimensions of each wall, N,S,E,W and the height of chair rail and baseboard. This could be an intersting exercise.
Oh Yeah! Locate the openings too, so we know what the actual wall space being covered is.
Excellence is its own reward!
piffin,
Here you go and anyone else who would like to look. I have attached a drawing and a rendering of what I intend to build. The base is 6" and the chair rail is at 36"
Thanks for any and all help.
Len
Is there still casing around those opennings to change the available space? i.e. on the left wall, is there 2'5" and 2'7" of space to be wainscoted or is there a 5" casing leaving you with a little over 2' of space to be filled? Same Q at the upper right corner wall that appears about 2'? Is the 3' openning cased?.
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Yes, all the openings are cased. I have room to play there. It sounds like you would leave the stiles consistant and make the size adjustment to the panels. Am I getting it?
Len
It was somebody else who makes the adjustment in the panels.
When appropriate, I do that but your style and wall sizes are not best to do that with, IMO..
Excellence is its own reward!
Len
I would definitly leave the stiles the same and adjust the panels, you will really notice stiles with different widths, I think that you notice panels that are different but it is expected, therefore accepted.
As I think about it I dont believe that I have ever seen styles and rails of different sizes, you would'nt change the size of a style on a cabinet to keep the panel the same.
Doug
That schematic I showed only changed stile size at corners where it is typical to have a wider piece. it is almost all 18"W panels and 4"W stiles.
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Piffin
I'll have to agree with you, I went and looked at some pics of mine and saw that on inside corners, and some ouside corners we would use a wider style.
Maybe I was just thinking of changeing a style in mid stream, not sure, but I do agree that what you show on your drawing looks good, I would have to see a 4" style in proprtion to the wall and panels before I could go that wide, sometimes I have to see it in the real to know.
Not questioning your 4" style just seems a little wide at first thought.
Doug
I like to actually draw it out on the wall with level and pencil before I commit. The inside corners shrink by the thickness of the stile material used anyway.
It is a pain to make every panel a different size and it doesn't look good most of the time. When I do vary them, it is to make a three panel with the center larger flanked by two smaller ones in certain situations. I don't have those photos available for publishing here..
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin
I agree that drawing it out on the wall is best, also the only time I like to change size of panel is when I change walls, usually a little planning makes this possible. I think that is where I got off track earlier, I was thinking that it was mentioned that all panels be the same, regardless of adjoining walls, sometimes adjacent walls dont allow for it, there is where you dont want to change the style size to make sure that you have all the same size panels. I think I understand what I am saying!
Also to the original poster, make sure you locate your outlets in the panels and not the styles, I've seen some people put the outlets in the style and IMO it just doesnt look as good. If your code allows you can put them down in the base.
our outlets are always in the base for this kind of work.
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin
I like the outlets in the base too, but the area that I used to live in just changed the code and made that a no-no. Dont really know why but they did it, they never asked me so I guess it doesnt matter what I think!
Doug
It's the same here. You can't lower them into the base board. I talked to the inspector when the room addition was done and it's a no no.
I'm going to layout the walls tonight and see how it looks.
Thanks all.
Len
These are realy old houses where the electrical was a retrofit. Still finding lots of black pipe from gas lines to wall lamps. Some of my pipe clamps are made from that.
so, I presume you can still have it in the baseboards if pre-existing? or if special conditions warrant it?.
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Seems to me know one would think anything of it if you:
assuming 4" vertical pieces:
on the 2' 5" wall - one 1' 9" panel
on the 2" 7" wall - one 1' 11" panel
on the 6' 5" wall - three 1' 8 2/3" panels
on the 13' 5" wall - six 1' 10 1/4" panels
???????
I have been thinking about doing the same thing in my den and I too would end up with various sizes.
Everyone's taste is a little different - I'm not fond of single pannel presentations unless the wall is down in the 1' range. I would go with a wide border, fairly narrow stiles (2") and divide the two small walls into 2 pannels each.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
That might actually be a better choice for this style as shown in 3D. I usually do raised panel presetation. The falt panels shown might get too dull looking. The narrowere pieces might make the ceiling seem taller..
Excellence is its own reward!
I believe someone threw out a figure of 18" as a width to shoot for for the panels. Are there any other rules of thumbs or others with another width to shoot for?
It was me who said that 16" would be the golden mean for the height you have, but that 18" worked out better with the wall lengths.
it is intersting to get different viewpoints. Something similar on coffered ceilings once resulted in an educational thread..
Excellence is its own reward!
You can get a hundred different suggestions about sizing - 16", 18", 12", 8", 9" and vote on it, but it is in hearing WHY each one chooses a certain way, and then applying that reasoning and comparing the results, that we learn from it..
Excellence is its own reward!
Well, here's one way. Based on dims given and assumptions for casing. You'll have to adjust for actual specifics.
You will have panels approx. 26" tall.
I like to apply the golden mean which gives you a width of approx. 16" but that does not balance the overall spaces on the walls well at all, 18" does when I allow for a 4" stile
I like to hide the various leftover amounts in corners and ends. most of your corners come close to 6" or thereabouts.
It is only the two panels on the right wall spaces that face left which need the panels to be adjusted in size.
One advantage of this layout is that the panels on walls at top and bottom of the drawing oppose each other in alignment at the center three panels. I like symetrical alignment when possible..
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for the insight. I didn't want to make four different size panels on four walls. It offended my sensibility. This will make my girlfriend much happier. Which in turn makes me happy.
Thanks again,
Len
I think typically you have furniture up against some of the panels and no one notices the differences betwee the panels on different walls. Even if you have a dinning table in the middle of the room and no furniture along the walls your eye does not make a review of the differences as long as the differences are reasonable.
There is only a dining room table in the middle so far. I don't think different size panels would have been terrible but piffin's layout worked really well and it means I can have only 2 setups. It will be a great time saver.
"... as long as the differences are reasonable. "
It is important to understand what is reasonable tho and the "Reasonable" to one person is butt ugly to another.
Generally when a project is done with bad proportions, people will describe it as "muddy" or "heavy", or "ugly" without being able to analyse what it is that makes it feel so -
but when good proportions are used, a room can feel "lively", "pretty", or "well balanced". Again, they will not be able to say why.
It is like a beautiful face. You know it when you see it, but you don't generally sit around asking why it is beautiful, "Is it the cleft in the chin, the high cheekbones, the curve of the lips, the set of the eyes, the colour in the cheeks, the arch of the eyebrows, or the twinkle in her eye?"
I do tend to over-analyse details like this in architecture. I've had more than ine owner or architect comment that I have a good eye for detail. I know that if the devil's in the details, I'm waging a righteous battle..
Excellence is its own reward!
Enjoyed this thread about wainscotting. What provisions for nailing do you typically make during framing for wainscotting? 1/2"plywood?......blocking?
thanks,
sam
If its over a rock or plaster wall I cut out 4"areas of the rock/plaster and screw up 1x4 and nail to that.
I did my bathroom here in TOH. So far its just back and a little front primed with Zissner's oil primer.
Did that months ago and I see it separating already. Glad I havent finsihed the paint job
Be well
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http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
That depends on the style of the wain material and whether it is remodel or new work but blocking is generally best.
One we have done with faux panels is to apply 1/2" MDO ply to the studs and then use Birch ply with surronding bead to simulate raised panels
most of our winscots are beaded board and the blocking withing the stud space works best there.
In a new house where the SR is already in and finished or a condo or apartment where the rock is needed for fire codes, we use a thinner beaded board applied right over the sheetrock and use construction adhesive with the nails from the gun only intended to hold things in place long enough for the glue to kick
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Hi Len---I haven't done a lot of wainscott jobs, but one of my best has been in my own family room--it has gotten the most positive comments----size was adjusted in the panels-I have 3 paneled walls plus a small run---each area has a different size panel and no one has ever asked about them---I really don't think anyone notices slight differences like that unless they are in the business--if you like I can post pics of the different areas.......
Hey George, we always like pictures!
Doug
I, too, like Piffin's layout. I'd be tempted, from only the floor plan, mind you, to exclude panels on the left-hand (or east) side. The "north" and "south" sides would "die" into the east wall and the stub wall for the cabinet. Rather than tie a short wall and the cavinetry into the paneling, I like to let them be, almost as if they were the addition.
Like I said, actually being in the room makes a world of difference, so my perception could be off.
The only time (per the old school) you change stiles instead of panels is when you have a corner. You would not want a 15" panel next to a 14" panel, per se. What difference is ok? Piffin said it, golden section (1:1.16 or there abouts).
Your rendering has the cap rail on the outside of the top rail. A flat rail capping the top rail and over the cap will be much easier on all hands. You are eliminating a very visible joint for one. Further, you can scribe the wall side of a flat top to match the wall (some times tough, even with a rabbetted moulding).
I see what you mean, but the girlfriend doesn't. We have planned to make it all around the room. My job at home is to adore her ( I do.) and do what she wants. She's actually very easy to please.
We still need to figure out what we want with the cabinet and how that corner will fit into the room.
I did the layout of the room in 3d in AutoCAD. It works out perfectly. I adjusted the panels on the right side of the room to be 16" wide. Everything seems fine in the virtual world. We'll have to see how it layout in the real world.
On the rendering. I didn't intend to build it that way. I was just trying to rendering a picture so my girl could see what it would look like. What you describe is pretty much what I am going to do.
Len
On the rendering. I didn't intend to build it that way.
Ok, that's what I was hoping. I have learned (the hard way) that people will take a 3D rendering very seriously, or very litteraly. So, I was just checking. Also, I've had to use SETUV in ACAD to "turn" the grain on wooden parts to get them to render "right." ACAD2000 makes this much simpler than R14; also more difficult with "wrap around" graining on render (isn't RMAT fun!)
On the cabinet, try and match horizontals, since you are wrapping the wainscot around the stub walls. This will make life much easier (except for buliding the cabinet). Having the toe space of the base cabinet align in some fashion to the base of the wainscot, and the top similar the top rail of the wainscot will make for a better installation. This works the other way, too. Using the top rail cap detail on the top of the base cabinet makes it look a lot more "built in" (even though it is anyway). The upper cabinet will want to align with the crown rail (or hanging rail, if used).
Your cabinet space is a little tight, but try and get a drawer at least as wide as the placemats--to make future life easier. A stack of drawers next to a door, with a full-width drawer across the top is a good combo, if it will fit. Why a door? Candle sticks, wine bottle holders, vases, etc. all need a home, and behind the door is ideal. For the upper, just a pair of doors. If there is good china to show off, use glass fronted doors. If there are some nise stemmed glasses, a stemware rack is also nice. It can go under the upper cabinet (if someone is willing to dust the glassware :)). A mirror between the upper and base can be trimmed in elegantly for a nice effect.
Just my 2¢ worth.