We plan to build a barn which measures 36′ x 36 ‘; slab on grade foundation. As a beginner, I have several practical questions. Is it best to build and sheath each wall as a single unit or is it acceptable to do it in three 12′ sections? I am a little concerned about the weight and ability to control the placement of the 36’ section onto the j-bolts. Thanks Kurt
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is it acceptable to do it in three 12' sections?
Yes....just throw in an extra stud and nail the walls together when stood up
"slab on grade foundation"
if you got any humps in your foundation and you sheath your walls before
standing them up, the the bottom plate on the opposite sides of the hump will be
swingingin the air. There is way to allow for this(hump in slab) when building your
wall.
Edited 11/2/2004 6:01 am ET by butch
If you sheath a 12 foot section ahead of time you are assuming that the slab is perfectly level. I suggest nailing a 12 foot section together and standing it up and bolting it down and then continue with the other sections all around the building. After they are all up then plumb the corners and put in a diagonal brace to hold it. ARe you going to free span the building with trussed? If so, you will need to put a string on the outside top plate and put internal or external braces to hold the wall straight. We put plywood sheathing on the corners before we truss to give the building some stability.
James Hart
Building it in 12' sections if quite normal.
Just leave off the 2nd top plate until the walls are stood. Then add the 2nd top plate and lap it at least 4'.
Early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
I agree with you Boss Hog but I also understand Framers concerns about humps in the foundation.
I have done it both ways and I have encountered that dreaded hump in the foundation too.
I don't work much on bad foundations....occasionally we do run into things. Sometimes we have to shim the entire wall because of the hump and were already sheathed. That works for me...we just stack steel shims under each stud. That takes about ten minutes tops.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
Well,.K. - But I'm cautious about taking advice from you.
(-:
.
I don't really see why that would make any difference. Cou can shim 3 walls 12' long just as easily as one wall 36' long.If man evolved from monkeys and apes, why do we still have monkeys and apes?
Boss, i dont know what your driving at.
Typically we build the 36' wall in one piece, sheath it and put on whatever makes sense. When we stand it up and encounter that dreaded hump, the wall will teeter on it, or sometimes have voids. At that point, it's a little late to adjust the stud lengths...because typically their all cut the same (I have had some that I had to graduate). It's at that point that we install steel shims.
Even if you build the wall in 12 sections, and sheath it, the hump will cause it to teeter.
The bigger question that I have is with the guys that frame the wall and don't sheath it. What do they do if it's humped up? Do they trim the studs? Or does that hump just mirror itself in the top plate? How do they deal with that hump?
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
The bigger question that I have is with the guys that frame the wall and don't sheath it. What do they do if it's humped up? Do they trim the studs? Or does that hump just mirror itself in the top plate? How do they deal with that hump?
We don't sheath our walls first we have sheathers but when I come across a slab that is real garbage we don't leave humps we trim the studs and make the wall straight. Anyone who leaves humps in the walls are HUMPS. That's why sheathing walls first and raising them on slab that is garbage it's no good. You'll be putting a million shims in.
If I encounter a slab that is garbage like I had last summer I set the outside corners and nail them into the shoe first brace them up and then string a line with a lot of chalk on top of the outside corners and then put my studs on the 16" center marks on the shoe and sight them plumb and press it up against the chalkline and that's my stud length.
Joe Carola
Edited 11/2/2004 8:20 pm ET by Framer
I can't believe I never thought of that. Two days ago we built a 12' high 2X6 wall on a basement slab (new house, existing foundation). Strung a dry line, and measured off every dang stud. No big deal, but we all know that's a PIA. That chalk line idea is so simple that it's genius. Thanks Joe!
Your Welcome!
The slab I did last summer was a joke but I had gone down before we started and saw how bad the slab was. I was paid extra and told the mason to go jump off a bridge and next time to pour himself into the slab.
Joe Carola
usually, I don't see more than a 3/8" hump and shimming between sill and bottom plate is no problem, but I remember one that was 2" high in center. Same slab was 3.5" off square. I pointed it out to the owner and how much extra I would charge to build on it. He held money back from the concrete guy who was not very happy with me, but tough titty, kitty. Don't make a mess in my litter box!
;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
We use this technique on nearly all garage walls and all basement walls. Now we've got a rotating laser so we'll setup it up to shoot control points and then set the end studs and touch the line. The guy who taught me to frame taught me that. I thought he made it up :-) Maybe he did and Joe has been spying on our jobsite? :-)
Well don't blow my cover then..... next time we gotta do that I'll just scratch my goatee for a minute and say, "I've got a better idea....."
They'll think I'm a genius!
I had the same idea...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Tim,
I've been meaning to get ahold of you for the past week or so regarding gang cutting rafters. I'll drop you an email. Would really appreciate it if you could answer some questions when you get a minute.
B.
Tim,
I had to get you back for posting the pictures of the roof I framed in "Roof Framing Pics"........................;-)
Joe Carola
I do not like to shim plates to straighten them as it leaves gaps under the sole plate that can leak air from the conditioned space. If the slab is not too horrible I will let it slide. If it needs attention you can pop a line on the side of the slab and measure the stud length differences from it. It is a judgment call whether any studs should be custom cut. To get the fascia straight I pop the soffit line on the wall and nail the lookouts level from it. I nail the fascia to the lookouts so I sometimes have to straighten them out a little (in and out). Sometimes a high tail has to be cut/ripped to plane correctly.
Here in S. Texas the family dog, (especially big black Labs) will tell you where your house is loosing cool air through the shimmed sole plates as that is the area of the slab/wall that the dog will make a bed. The air-conditioned air will pour through the weep holes or from under siding. Dogs love it.
Rich,
You staying out of trouble out there..........;-)
Joe Carola
On a 36' wall, don't you worry that the studs in the center might be a quarter inch short? You've got to really hog the chaulkline hummin' tight to keep the swayback out of it!
It's a great night here at BT, First I learn blue's trick for the length of a plywood valley cut, and now this tip!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
On a 36' wall, don't you worry that the studs in the center might be a quarter inch short? You've got to really hog the chaulkline hummin' tight to keep the swayback out of it!
Yes I do worry that's why on that slab that I delt with last summer the wall was 54' so I sat my laser up on the top of the outside corner and shot it to the top of the other outside corner and then nailed a stud on one of the 16" center marks around the center of the wall at the right height braced it up and sat the chalkline on top of that stud to break the span.
I'll be 40 soon maybe I'm starting to get smarter as I get older..........;-)
Joe Carola
That chalkline idea is great...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I does work nice.
Blue wont use a chalklike he'll just sight it from one corner to the next and tell his helper where to scribe them.......;-)
Joe Carola
went from all those measures to scribing off of a dryline to this..
Isn't eveloution great...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Blue wont use a chalklike he'll just sight it from one corner to the next and tell his helper where to scribe them.......;-)
LMAO...... too funny. I can just picture it.
I couldn't help myself.
Joe Carola
I've done that plenty of time on small walls. It works fine.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
Framer, you're very, very close to the truth on that statement.
I don't work on my bad foundations. Most are block...not poured.
Normally, if I get to a jobsite and the block work looks suspect...you know what I mean...sloppy, crooked, etc...I usually lay the bottom plates on it and give it a quick visual. If it's laying nicely...not any unusual gaps, then I proceed normally.
If I notice a teetering, and it was limited to one spot, I would mark the high point of the spot and measure the amount needed. If I had to whack 1/2" off the studs on the high point, and taper it each way for 4', then I'd simply hack the 1/2" on the stud that lands directly over the hump, and 1/8" difference for the next four studs. This will effectively scribe the bottom plate to the foundation.
The next step involves sheathing....which we do while the wall is flat. The key here is to get the top perfectly straight prior to squaring. It should be double checked after squaring.
Occasionally I encounter some wicked daylight foundation nightmares. These walls are typically about 15 to 30' in length and they can be quite bad...out of level 3/4 or more. I have used several "tricks" on these walls and the tight chalkline is one of them. But there are several more that sometimes are just as effective and timely.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
Get some Proctor wall jacks.
bolt down the PT sill with whatever shimms are needed to make it flat and level
Frame the 36' wall, sheathe it, and proctor it up normally onto the sill plate. Where the anchor bolts are tall, divot out the bottom of the plate with a chisle.
Now you have a double bottom plate to nail together. just leave the sheathing liong enuf to tie them together.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!