I’m involved in commercial and some residential construction but never as a framer so forgive my simpleton question: When laying out the top and bottom plates for interior or exterior walls, I am assuming that taking into consideration sheathing or sheetrock layout (i.e. where an 8 foot sheet ends over a stud) is considered for stud placement besides the normal 16 or 24″ o.c. So does the exterior sheathing layout govern or the interior? In case I am not clear, take for example framing from a corner down a long wall. The exterior sheathing starts at the outside corner but the interior sheetrock starts at the inside corner. It is time, I’m sure, to buy one of the framing books often recommended here, but I have been racking my brain this weekend on how to do this for some minor framing that is going on in my own building.
Does this vary for wood framing vs. light guage steel?
Thanks for the help.
Greg
Replies
Greg T,
I've been framing for many years here in Nor Cal and you'll find a big discussion here about weather you lay the outside wall sheeting horizontal or vertical.
Here we have always laid it vertical because of engineering requirements.
Layout all of your hold downs, corners and channels first.
Layout all of your door and window openings second.
And then your stud layouts.
But I almost always layout from the outside corners for exterior sheeting because exterior plywood is more expensive than drywall.
When it's interior walls I try and layout my studs for the best use of drywall from inside and outside corners.
That's pretty basic layout rules of thumb and you'll find here in this forum that there will be all kinds of tricks guys like to use on their own.
We could get into whole other realm going into major custom framing and engineering.
Howie
Your rules of thumb were exactly what I was looking for! Thanks for the reply.
GregT
I'm an east coast framer and I use the exact same rules of thumb. Exterior sheathing walls get layed out to make my life easier. Interior walls, I try to help out the board hangers. By nature, it helps out the GC who is paying for the materials.
And I agree 100% with your procedure for laying out penetrations, intersections, and commons.
Nice to know there's some sort of industry standards in framing, huh? ;)View Image
Do you guys have the same over engeneering on the East Coast that we have here on the West Coast?
Not in my neck of the woods anyway. I cringe when I hear about all the hardware, blocking, and shear wall hoops you guys have to jump through. That stuff eats up time.
I worry about the day when all that stuff catches on around here and all the builders will want it all installed for the same price they're paying now just because they don't realize how labor intensive that stuff can be.
So while I appreciate the other trends you guys started (production framing, wormdrives, etc), that's one trend you boys can keep. ;)View Image
dieselpig......industry standards.........do you or have you ever heard that when facing a house you allways lay out from left to right and back to front?
I've never heard that per say Nails. But I do think it's just good practice. If everyone on board knows that all layouts are pulled from the "back left" corner of the house (that's just what we use) then you won't have to stop and think so much. And you will have sharp clean looking load paths everywhere you look. Makes for a professional looking job in my opinion. View Image
"...when facing a house you always lay out from left to right and back to front?"
I always do trusses that way. Makes it easier for the framer to figure out how everything is done when they get a layout.
USA: The home of the free, because of the brave
dang...you mean I actually did something that was "industruy standard" before I knew what the he!! I was doin? Thats a first! knowledge without experience is just information.... Mark Twain
Greg,
We have always done layout from the outside corner (ext sheathing breaking on layout). Since the exterior sheathing plays a strucural role, I always figured best to let that dictate.
m2akita
Greg,
I layout from the outside of the wall pulling 15-1/4" for the first mark and then 16" the rest of the way. I also do the same layout for all the interior walls because the joist has to stack above the studs. On the center wall where the joist break the first set of joists lands on the same 15-1/4" layout as the stud but the second set of joists go 15-1/4" and the opposite direction nailed along side the first set of joists.
So one side is 15-1/4" to the right and the other side is 15-1/4" to the left.
Related question here on sheathing (I know, I should really wade in on the other thread, but I can't bear it).
For those of you that sheathe vertically, what's your strategy for overlapping the second floor rim? For my shop I'm doing 9' first floor walls, and it makes sense to me to use 10' sheets and overlap the second floor rim at least part way. I'm definitely sheathing that walls flat and then standing them up. Question is... just nail thru the plywood to nail the rim to the joists, or what?
Dave,I don't sheath vertically. I sheath horizontally with no blocking.Joe Carola
Me too. But we do lap the framing below.View Image
I start the sheathing on the first mudsill.Joe Carola
Here in Nor Cal we are governed by Engineers and individual county inspectors, each with their own interpretation of the state and county codes.
With that said, the last project we lapped the second floor rim in the center with full sheets from the top and bottom floors with the required sheer wall edge nailing.
We have also split the top plate from the bottom floor and split the bottom plate on the second floor and then filled in between from bottom plate to top plate covering the rim with required nailing. This method makes better use of plywood, but you have to get up on ladders or scaffolding to run the material.
To each his own! I prefer lapping the rim myself!
Howie
If you lap half of the rim, are you then nailing the bottom half of each joist THRU the plywood? Seems like it would be the only way unless you sheathe after raising. I'm a remodeler, I never do this stuff, except once a decade or so.
Yes you can nail through the ply and rim into the joist with 16d's. The top half is nailed though the rim into the joist.
Then stand the secound floor walls with sheer on and it laps the top half of the rim.
Howie
Up to now, we use sheathing 1' bigger than the walls we are framing. This means that it typically covers the rim and splits the plate below the rim. I don't think that is strong enough even though it meets our codes right now. We are going to start splitting the sheathing on the rim and then one row of blocking on the very top floor. I don't know if that makes sense or not.
Does anyone lap their sheathing over the intersecting walls at exterior corners?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
"Does anyone lap their sheathing over the intersecting walls at exterior corners?"John,Are you talking about doing it like in circle B in the drawing?Joe Carola
Edited 2/5/2006 8:33 pm ET by Framer
Joe,
That's not what I mean.
Here is your drawing with my addition in the center.
View Image
One can do it like I've shown. The alternative would be to leave the first and last pieces of sheathing off and set your first stud at 11-1/4" (assuming 1/2" ply 3-1/2" studs). Essentially the second method would tie the walls together more at the corners.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon,It looks like to me that you stuck the corner stud past the wall 1/2" so that it's flush with the sheathing. Is that correct and if so, why?Joe Carola
Joe,You're correct. The reason most do it around here is because they can sheathe their walls on the deck and they don't have to tie anything in after standing the walls.The details mentioned by the other guys require a man to nail off of a ladder once the wall is up.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon,That means that you have your full stud flush with the outside of the sheathing of the side wall. That side wall sheathing doesn't overlap the front wall. I don't like that at all. It doesn't tie in the corner to me that way. The way I showed both A and B in my drawing the plywood overlaps the corner and holds it together.I'm surprised with all the shear, hold downs and seismic zone conversations that this would be acceptable even though we don't do anything with shear, holdowns and seismic zone stuff. I don't think that would even fly here but I'm going to ask about that detail just out of curiosity.Joe Carola
If you mean using spanning the plywood from the "butting" wall to the 3 1/2" or 5 1/2" face of the other wall, then yes. Always. I'm not sure I did a good job explaining that.
When we stand a sheathed wall that butts into (not lap) another exterior wall at a corner, we leave the end cuts off the wall. So after it's stood we add the first and last pieces of plywood on the courses of that wall and tie them to the face of the wall they butt to.
That still about as clear as mud, isn't it?View Image
"That still about as clear as mud, isn't it?"
Brian, I'm not kidding you, I tried to reply to Joe earlier when I was at my computer that does not have paint loaded on it for some reason. I must have written ten different ways, and none of them made any sense.
I've got to commend Joe for his clear drawings. I remember the first time I heard him say that he used MS Paint, I never knew you could do things like that. I think he is one of the best guys around here to explain complex things.
So, if I understand you, you do it the way that I called the "alternative" in my previous post to Joe? Why do you do this? Do you think the extra strength is necessary? Do you lay your walls out like I mentioned above so a full sheet can be used and still break?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Hi Jon,
Yes, 'the alternative' is exactly what we do. And yes, we frame with the layout pulled to account for the width of the other wall.
Why? A few reasons I guess. It makes for a good strong corner. It's clean looking. It's the way I've always done it. (hey, just being honest). Do is think it's necessary? Probably not entirely. But I know it doesn't hurt either.
We also cut all our plates so that joints are split over studs. So the first pair of lineals for that butt wall are cut to 188 1/2" if we're working with 2x4's.View Image
brian & jon...
View Image
what ?????
the alternative is not an alternative.. the drawing shown in the middle doesn't do a sheathing tie... all of modern code is based on the sheathing tieing the corners... what am i missing in this discussion ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Brian & Mike,I just went through R602.10 in the IRC2003 as thoroughly as I could and from what I can determine, Mike is right.I may sound like Blue but in some respects that seems like overkill to me. The code requires lapping top plates, corners nailed together, and sheathing lapping at corners. My non-technical opinion is that the sheathing would add little to the integrity of the walls. We are not in a significant seismic or wind area.Now I'm wondering how so many around here can get by without lapping their sheathing. I guess the inspectors don't know or don't care.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
>> Now I'm wondering how so many around here can get by without lapping their sheathing. I guess the inspectors don't know or don't care. << I think it is a lot more that they don't know. Around here, by the time the framing inspection is performed, 80% of the time the house is already sided. If it is not sided, then it is definitely covered with housewrap or felt paper, which would at least disguise it well. Some inspectors check the nailing of the corner shear panels by kicking the inside of the sheathing to see that it is well nailed, especially at the blocking if there is a mid wall sheathing joint. This method will not detect the missing 4" strip though.
Thanks for the link on how to insert a pic directly into the post window, but I got a "this discussion does not exist" when I click on the link.
Matt,
If this link doesn't work try this:http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=67872.14 
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Hummm.. really odd - I guess you can see it and I cant.... I get a "This discussion does not exist " error message.
His link is working for me dude. Weird.View Image
Does the link go to a thread in the Tavern? I don't have access to that...
Also, I notice at the bottom of the window it says that I have the thread on ignore. I don't recall putting any thread on ignore. I think maybe I have one person on ignore...
This is what I see when I follow his link or cut/paste the URL into my address line on my browser (M/S IInternet Explorer 6.0). The screen scrape modified the look of the page a bit but the basic info is still all there in the below "pic".
Message 14 of 14 was Deleted
Navigate this discussion: All Messages 1-13 14
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When I click on the All Messages link or the 1-13 link I get: _________________________________________________________________
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Matt,That's exactly what the problem is.Here is the thread.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Thanks much John. Let me give it a try... Now I know why whenever someone puts a pic directly in their post, the attachment is at the bottom...
View Image
That alternative is an alternative Mike. Not a good one, but an alternative, none-the-less. Seen it done before, but have never done it myself. Just doesn't seem like good practice to me. If nothing else, I think it looks lazy. We've always tied the corners together via plywood. Ours is usually somewhere between "B" and "A". Call it an A-. ;)
You gotta get out in the big developments a little more Mike. You'll be amazed by what you see and you'll understand why I can't make any money working for the big guys.View Image
brian.. in another 10 years we'll be in the developments redoing everything .......Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Man I hope so. As long as I'm still making money and swinging a hammer in ten years, I'll be happy. I dunno if I'm cut out for the remodeling gig though. Maybe in time.......View Image
John:
I added a bit to the drawing. I'm not used to using MS Paint, nor do I know how to display the pic directly in the post - I guess you have to post the pic on your personal web site, and then link to it?
Anyway, I called your detail C and added detail D. A lot of the framers around here do it as detail D, which makes less sense than your detail C. The thing is that there are 2 inspection jurisdictions (of about 7) in my area, a town and a county, that have sheathing inspections (inspections performed before the siding goes on) and they specifically will not allow D, and I'd bet not C either. Their reasoning is they say that the corner is required to have a structural panel (which it is in all areas) and the detail C does not accomplish that. They say that essentially the sheathing is providing rack resistance, but the corner framing is not tied together with the sheathing. BTW - we are in a 100 MPH wind area, which means that we periodically get hit by hurricanes but not direct hits. I agree with these inspection departments.
Personally I'm fine with detail A or B, but see no reason for C or D on the first story of most houses (depending on how high the foundation is) but specifically tell my framers I don't want D. Sometimes they do it anyway, which doesn't make me happy, but I'm not gonna make them re-do it.
Natt,Your detail D looks like the last sheat is 4" for a 2x4 wall with 1/2" sheathing. Is that correct?Jon's drawing (Detail C)looks like the corner stud is past the wall 1/2". Am I seeing that right? If it is, why would that stud sticking past 1/2" make a difference?Joe Carola
Edited 2/6/2006 8:44 am ET by Framer
>> Your detail D looks like the last sheat is 4" for a 2x4 wall with 1/2" sheathing. Is that correct? << Yes, that is correct.
>> Jon's drawing (Detail C)looks like the corner stud is past the wall 1/2". Am I seeing that right? If it is, why would that stud sticking past 1/2" make a difference? << Makes no difference to me - it just slightly different - but neither method is acceptable to me.
Matt,
You don't have to post on another site, just follow the instructions here.
Your detail D is another way I have seen it done. I agree with you that it has no benefit.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
John,
we leave off the sheets on the corner, but we do it in such a way that they are typically 16" or 32" and easier for one man to hang. Preferrably I would have them cut and when the wall is up, someone can hang them leaning over the top of the wall and then we'll come back and nail it off later when all the outside nailing is "buttoned" up.
You can see on the back corner of this house http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/8885471/124491908.jpg there is a smaller sheet that is used to finish the sheathing.
Another trick with the 16", 32" or we've even done it with full 48" sheets is to hang that end sheet on the end off the wall that you have stood. Space it with an 8d gap away from sheets that you have laying on the wall that your about to stand.
When you stand the wall the sheet is already there and then pull and lock things together. No sheets up ladders or hanging over walls , (although I've done it many a time!) , then all you need is a nail gun.
Howie
"When you stand the wall the sheet is already there and then pull and lock things together. No sheets up ladders or hanging over walls , (although I've done it many a time!) , then all you need is a nail gun."I follow what your saying but if you hang that sheat vertically and you stand the wall up and when the wall hits it and there's no windows near the end of the wall that you just stood up. How do you nail the whole sheat off? I know you can lean over the top plate and nail down just so far but how do you nail down the whole 8'?Joe Carola
You still have to climb a ladder to nail it off if you can't reach it, but it's one less thing you have to do on a ladder. Save's Time!
Anytime you can save a step with any process then overall the job goes faster.
To nail off overlapping corner sheets I use a Paslode stick framing gun with the orange trigger a roll of duct tape and a 10' aluminum pole. Not exactly safe but it saves a ton of time don't have to get out an extension ladder at all for this situation. Probably gonna get reamed for this one.
What's the duct tape for? Taping the ladder to the wall?
That's sounds pretty funny but I 'm not picturing what you described.
Howie
The tape is for attaching the framing gun to the end of the 10' aluminum pole I can nail off overlapping corner sheathing from the inside of the house. A little tape around the bump fire trigger and you have my patented "stick framing gun".
wow... you gotta do that in the dark when osha ain't around .....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Not exactly by the books thats for sure usually do it at 5:00 in the afternoon. Around here OSHA only goes after commercial jobs, not enough time in the day to go after little fish like me I guess. By the way very impressed with your work, I love the look of a hand raftered roof, around here its almost always trusses and hand cut valleys-porches. Kind of boring when I see your job site each day.
Are you allowed to cut the sheat in half and nail a 4' piece up first being able to bend over and reach and then nail the second 4' piece off so you don't have to do all that?Joe Carola
I sure am not a shear wall area by no means, probably will start doing that sounds a little more by the books than my way of doing it. I like your jobsite pictures seeing those each day is real cool. I run a small company here probably wouldn't qualify to carry boards on yours or Mr. Smiths or Tim Uhler or Diesel Pigs.
Gotcha! That's to funny!
Boy, you have to make sure you don't miss a stud or you'll shot thur the ply and hit yourself in the shin or worse.
Sorry but I don't think I or any of my guys will be doing that trick on my jobs.
Thanks for the visual though, it stricks me as really funny!
Made my day!
Howie
I figured it would make some people laugh hope no one tries it and gets hurt. I'd go on the sh!t list with the backfeeding generator guy, don't have enough time in the day to read all that hate mail.
Sweet Dog Sweet!! I used to do that before we had a forklift and it's one of those tricks that I just forgot now that we've gotten spoiled. I'll start doing that again and the guys will think that I'm a genius :-)
Tim,How can you nail down a 8' sheat though without using a forklift or ladder? You can lean down from the top plate but you can't nail 8'. If there's no windows to lean out of, what do you do?When I framed in the Cape we sheathed horizontal so I was able to stick my 29" waste and 56" chest at the time and nail off the 4' sheat and then I would nail the second row from leaning over the top plate.You like the 56" chest part......................;-)Joe Carola
Joe,
I'd still use the forklift. I probably read his post before I fully woke up. I understood it to be . . . . now I don't know what I was thinking. I was thinking that he just tacked it next to where it needed to go, but that doesn't make sense. I'm just on my way out and I'll have to reread his post after work :-) The Seahawks being robbed has fried my brain :-)
I would still use a forklift to nail off the sheathing. I get get a guy in the platform and drive him around the house to nail off the rim, set those ripped pieces and button up the whole house in no time. Then call for a shearnail inspection where the inspector won't walk around the house because it's muddy :-) Aggravates me because we go the extra mile in shearnailing and making sure its done right and looks professional.
By the way, I'm going to talk to the bossman about using 5/8" sheathing on the roof. It'll cost a minium of $300 per house, probably closer to $500, so I think I know what he is going to say :-)
Tim,I think you said if you use 5/8" you don't need H-clips. Did you say that?Even though we use 5/8" for the sheathing the jobs where I used trusses @ 2" centers we still have to use H-clips.I read his post again and I think what he was saying is that you don't have to carry a sheat up the ladder and just carrry a nail gun. I thought that he meant that he wouldn't need a ladder at all to nail it. I think he does need a ladder to nail it.Joe Carola
Edited 2/6/2006 10:08 am ET by Framer
Joe,
I was/am under the impression that you don't have to use H-clips when you use 5/8" sheathing, but I may be wrong. I usually am :-)
You do have to use H-clips with 5/8" on trusses that are 2' centers around here anyway.Joe Carola
tim.... our rule of thumb USED to be
1/2" roofsheathing with rafters 16" oc, with H-clips
5/8" roofsheathing with rafters 24" oc, with H-clips
now our rule of thumb is
5/8" Advantech T&G with rafters 19.2" , eliminates a lot of required blocking in our 110 MPH zoneMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I can understand your approach to the newer requirements. I can't help but be somewhat chagrined by the comments made on these boards (and I'm sure mine do the same to others). As I've said before, it wasn't until I came to this board that I found out it was a "big" deal to use 7/16" OSB on stick framing 24"oc. Every truss roof and stick framed roof that I have ever seen in this area either used 7/16" sheathing or I've heard in the old days 3/8" ply. My "mentor" Dave told me it was somewhat scary sheathing those roofs in the early 80's because if you stepped wrong . . . .
I guess this difference in viewpoint comes down to this: there is no discernable difference in quality from the street or the yard, so why spend the money? As soon as it's required, we'll switch, but on houses we have engineered, 7/16" is perfectly fine. No one can see from the street on the houses we frame that 7/16" was used, so why is that such a hack thing to do? If no one can tell the difference (assuming), why spend the money? Preference? Habit? Region?
Sorry for the diatribe. That wasn't directed at you, or Joe. It sometimes seems to me, and I'm clearly limited in my frame of reference, that us left coast guys are looked down upon by the right coast guys as hacks or simpletons. I don't sense that from you, but I have noticed it in the past from others.
They might be right :-)
tim .... we all build within our local standards.... if i were building in your area for my self ( ie : my own house ) i would stick to my own standards..
but if i were building for a customer.. or for spec , i would either build to the local standars or use the upgrade as a marketing tool
i do find it hard to believe that there is no difference, from the street, in appearance between 7/16" osb @ 24" oc than 5/8" ply @ 24"oc.. the difference might not show up for 10 years.. but it will show up.. and you will only see it when the light is right...
but so what .... until they change the code, the code will remain the standard
as for west coast guys being hacks ??????? hah, hacks are everywhere.. so are good builders, you certainly don't have a lock on them..
and some of the biggest innovations in technique have come from the left coast..
i see it more as an exchange of ideas.. not as a criticism.. you post a technique, we discuss it... we take what we need from the discussion..
now , get rid of that thin skin before i have to come over there Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
think skin? think skin? A lightsaber wouldn't cut through my skin :-) hehehehehe
I think one factor to consider too, is that around here, people just will not pay for some of the detail that you guys get to build into your houses. The hardwood just went into the Muirkirk house that I post pics of and you should see the detail our trim carp is doing. In this so-called "upscale" development, it'll have the nicest trim bar none. Almost no one will pay for that, unless they are Microsoft employees who move over from Bellvue :-) I think that may start changing, but it seems like you build for people with more "sophisticated" taste. We are more spartan around here and I wish it was different. Just doing simple ceilings like this one http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/9094915/127782311.jpg make people go crazy even though they aren't difficult to frame.
I have to go now and put sunscreen on my skin. I don't want it to burn :-)
"I can't help but be somewhat chagrined by the comments made on these boards (and I'm sure mine do the same to others)."Tim,I agree with you on that but not the part where YOU annoy someone though because you don't annoy me. The problem with some people is that they are ignorant and used to doing things one way and they think that their way is the only way.The bigger problem is that some of them think that their way turns out to be a better quality job when they've never done it anotherr way. To make matters worse is that they will argue with you when they have know idea what they're talking about.This strapping vs non strapping thing is an absolute joke. I don't strap and the houses I build come out just as nice as the houses that are strapped. When someone comes to this board and asks if they have to strap my response will always be no. Then I get the ignorant a-holes that tell me if I don't strap it's not a quality job. That's when I get annoyed.As far as you and JD saying that you can't imagine not working on a roof without the walls sheathed I was just telling you and everyone else that you can and you explained why you wouldn't and your reasons made a lot of sense. JD said that he felt it wasn't wise to do so and I told him that it is wise because we do it all the time. JD has never done it my way so he still might think it's not wise or maybe he might take my word that it is wise and can be done without any problems.The problem with some people here (not you or JD) is that they knock the way people do things that's opposite of them because they only know one way of doing things and they shouldn't knock another way someone else does it. They should just keep there ignorant mouths shut.This debate about running plywood horizontally or vertically, using blocks not using blocks is another joke. I sheath horizontally and never used a block before. Obviously we can and anyone who tries to argue that is a joke also.We all share our different ways of doing things and it should be respected and not put down. I will get annoyed when someone tells me the way I do something isn't good and only explain my way so that someone else out there might understand it and maybe the person who is telling me it's no good might realize it is or maybe they wont and if they don't that's their problem.You guys sheath the walls on the deck and we don't. Are you crazy? no. Am I crazy? no. You have a forklift I don't. I have sheathing crews, you don't. We have to use H-clips for 5/8" sheathing with trusses @ 2' centers. If you don't that's fine. If someone tells you that's not quality and your a hack then they can go jump off a bridge with the rest of the ignorant ones.
Joe Carola
Joe,
The strapping point is a perfect point. I've never understood what that is all about. I think that on the westcoast, a lot of steps like that have been eliminated and are seen as unecessary steps that do no nothing but add cost. However, I think that has gone too far in many cases. Around here, we were among the first to use peel and stick flashings (in our county). When I go to the lumberyard and ask about that or about new pressure treatings or hardware, I get blank stares. Our subs (plumbing, electrical, foundation, HVAC) tell us that we are the only ones they do work for that do all this stuff. Well what can I say? It's required.
I try very hard not to be dogmatic or sound high minded on these boards. It takes a lot of thought sometimes because of what I can't communicate with words. They just don't make up for facial expression or tone of voice. I am very tongue-in-cheek about a lot of what I write and on my jobsite, a sense of humor reigns. I don't really care what guys do with their sheathing. Whatever floats their boat, just so long as its an informed decision. I took Gary Katz's trim class and he talks about the rules of architcture and how its ok to break them as long as you know what they are to begin with.
I feel that on the boards, there are some quick trigger fingers, but no education to back that up. I read everything I can get my hands on. I will spend hours reading at the APA's website, I've been reading JLC since I was 15. I was taught to frame by a really good framer/sider/foundation/flatwork/trim guy. But, he relied on his own opinion and didn't keep up with the newer rules, regs, codes, materials, tools etc. When someone doesn't do that, how valuable is their opinion?
By the way, about the wall sheathing before the roof sheathing. I've done that before. Last spring, we had to wait for windows and were siding with reverse board and batten (like T1-11). We got the roof on and sheathed and I think the roofing even went on before we sheathed our walls. I'll do it, but my preference is to have the house sheathed. Another by the way, we Tyvek'd the walls on that house while it was on the deck (after we squared it of couse) and you know what? When we went to plumb and align, our walls were all plumb, we just added bracing to keep it that way. Of course that became a joke about the shear value of Tyvek and 3/8" staples :-)
We just started siding yesterday with LP Smart Side. What kind of comments do you think will be made when I post pics at JLC? Especially since the trim is almost nonexistent heheheh
"We just started siding yesterday with LP Smart Side. What kind of comments do you think will be made when I post pics at JLC?"Tim,Do you mean like the comments I made about using those ridiculous exposed clips on every single butt joint on the house and the 2" above the roof shingles the siding sits and 2" of exposed counter flashing?Joe Carola
No I thought your comments were justified. I just mean about LP being a hack product to use, the way we side, flash, trim etc. I think Tom has said it before, but if the boss tells me to do something a certain way, I'll do it. I'll try and discuss it with him, but if he wants it that way, he gets it.
Hi Timuhler,
I haven't read all your post here on this thread, but I happened to read this one and was wondering what you were referring to as for lick and stick flashing? Are you talking about 6" or 9" Vycor or simular products? We use it here alot for all our windows and doors.
But not sure if that's what your talking about.
Also we can't tyvek our walls on the floor, all the sheer has to be inspected, I wish we could.
I do frame and sheet every thing on the wall that I can before we stand them though. I've even built 3' flat soffit eves on the side of the wall before we stood them. Roof sheeting , fascia as far as we could go. Worked great! Just need to be percise with your hieghts and measurements.
Howie
Just noticed you're in Grass Valley. Happen to know Dave Yonenaka? He moved up there a few years back, I think. A+ carpenter and great guy.
No sorry can't say I do.
Howie
Howie,
Did I write lick and stick? hehe I should have written peel and stick. I don't know why but that is really funny to me :-) Ya, we used Vycor, but the lumberyard we buy from switched to Fortifiber so that's what we use now. They Vycor was good stuff. We stuck a piece on the mast of the forklift 4 years ago and we can't pull it off. It's been in the weather all that time.
I think you did write as peel and stick! I did write lick and stick!
Howie
I like that flashing too Tim. But I always feel like my tougue is gonna fall off by the end of the day. View Image
Another thing to consider is that normally the drywall comes in 12' or even longer sheets. So, assuming that it is hung horizontally, a 12' board will span many of the walls in a house - unless it is a large house with a lot rooms over 12'. Granted the family room, master bedroom, etc will have larger rooms, but in these cases the drywall hangers will just be cutting off maybe the first 4" on the sheet that goes in the corner. Still, this will only be on the exterior walls since the interior walls will be laid out for the drywall.
I always figured framers did their layout for the exterior sheathing for one simeple reason:The framer puts up the exterior sheathing. But they're long gone before the drywall goes up.(-:
I never fake sarcasm