Since I can’t find this out anywhere else and I always get the straight answer from you all here goes –
How much hot water do you need to provide for a standard top loader washing machine? This is being used at a summer camp and the building that is going to house it has no gas line. To run a new propane tank and water heater is about $1800.00 and not in the budget. Since the hot water is only for the washer how much capacity does the water heater need? I see the compact units are 2.5 gallon or 6 gallon or 10 gallon. After that they become standard size and require 2 heating elements. The cost of electricity is not an issue but the availablity of amps is. I would like to use a compact unit and I can get a 1500watt or 2000watt type.
If a standard wash load is run with warm wash and cold or warm rinse will the 6 gallon be enough? 10 gallon? There will not be any pure hot water washes done so lets not worry about maxing out the load. I can’t find this out from the appliance store nor from the appliance parts place I deal with. Anyone have a clue?
Thanks again.
Replies
How much hot water do you need to provide for a standard top loader washing machine?
Figure 50 gallons total or so per load. So for whites (hot wash, two cold rinses), about 15-20 gallons of hot. Half that for a "warm" load but 15-20 gallons for a warm wash / warm rinse.
The availablity of amps is (an issue). I would like to use a compact unit and I can get a 1500 watt or 2000 watt type.
Two factoids that will help you:
1) a two-element HWH (40-, 50-, 60-gallon units) never turns on both elements at the same time. The upper thermostat grabs the power if it is colder than the setpoint. Only when the upper t-stat is happy, does the lower t-stat get power. And it turns on its element if it is below temp.
2) you can replace HWH elements. You can replace them with SMALLER wattage elements if you like. So, if you only have 8 amps to use (i.e. 2000 watts at 240 volts), then get two 2000-watt, 240-volt element. Make sure you get the right wattage, voltage, and type (screw-in or bolt-on). They will cost about $9 to $14 each. Use them in the biggest HWH tank you can buy cheaply (60 or so) and you'll have the most flexibility.
Seems odd to only have 2000 watts. You running it off a generator? Usually, you'd have at least 15 amps on any circuit, so that would let you run 3500-watt elements at 240 volts.
Never energize a HWH without filing it first. Never drain a HWH with turning off the power/gas. An empty electric HWH will burn out the element in a few seconds.
Advanced trick for really weird situations: You can connect a 240-volt element to 120 volts (but NEVER the other way around) to make a smaller wattage element. If you want really low wattage, a 1500-watt, 240-volt element operates at 375 watts at 120 volts. It would, however, take 23 hours to heat 60 gallons of water.
-David
Another question is, "Do you REALLY have to have hot water"? If so, will warm water do? The manual for your washing machine should tell you how much water it uses. From there you should be able to get the necessary capacity of the water heater.
But I know some people have switched to all cold wash.
Another thing you can do to get more hot water from a limited amount of power is put a holding tank ahead of the water heater. A non-working but non-leaking water heater would work fine as a tank, and even better if you take the insulation off. Sitting in the tank takes the water from your cold source temperature up to ambient temp, so you don't need to waste power on those first 10 - 15 degrees.
You might also consider solar, which works great for heating water.
-- J.S.
I been washing with cold water all my life, clothes come out clean
Thanks for the info. The reason for the power consideration is that it is a very old camp and there is only 200amps per side for the entire camp. So 400 amps has to power like 30 buildings (most of them have just lights and a few outlets) including the kitchen w/ a double freezer, a double ref, 2 single freezers, a single ref, and a walk in ref. this is in addition to a chest freezer and 2 warming racks and a conveyor type toaster, etc. This is in a New York State park and getting the state to upgrade anything is like pulling teeth. So, even though I might be able to install a larger HWH I always try to use the minimum power possible - this goes totally against my nature- I usually overdo everything.
If I get a 30 gallon unit w/ 2 elements that are rated 2000 watts each and they will never draw at the same time I should be all set. Next question - for a short run - like 20 ft or less what wire should I use. It must be armored since it will be exposed and the rodents have the camp to themselves all winter. I have some 10-3 w/ ground wire m.c.lite that I can use or is 12-3 o.k.? Whenever I ask for m.c.lite I expect some rapper to come out of the warehouse.
Thanks again.
Does the camp ever get brown-outs? Or have other low-voltage / low-amperage problems? Or do you pop the 200 amp, two-pole breaker at times? A way (a bothersome one) around that could be timers on the large devices. HWHs are great for timed operation. If some of those ref/freezers could be configured to not come on at the same time, you'd reduce the chances of the starting amps of a ref, being on top of running amps of several other units, putting you over the limit.
If you are using 2000-watt, 120-volt elements, they run at less than 9 amps so any wire size is okay. 10-2 plus ground, 12-2 plus ground, or 10-3/12-3 with the white capped off. Sounds like you're on the right track regards the critters - protect the wires with metal. Dang rodents are always looking for chew toys.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
As BB said, cold water for the whole cycle.
Most if not all modern detergents are formulated to work with cold water, there is really no need for warm water wash at all.
You could use a really small water heater if you got a front loading machine. They use about 1/3 the water per load as a top loader. Or save your water heater project money and to get a front loader and use only cold. They do a superior job of cleaning, reducing your need for hot water in the first place.
So if I get a supply of "alltempaCHEER" detergent I can eliminate the water heater? This would be great except if I have a bunch of girls/women really ticked off because their sox are not clean. If you hook the washer up to cold water only do you cap the inlet for the hot side or connect cold to both sides? I just wonder what happens if someone selects hot or warm by mistake. Does it screw up the washer if no water is flowing through the mainfold?
Thanks.
If you use cold water only:
Yes, if someone selects warm, both solenoids will open and cold would flow out the hot connection. So cap it with a hose-thread cap (plus gasket!).
I WOULDN'T put a sign on it saying "use cold setting only". Let them select warm and think that is what is happening. You'd get fewer complaints that way - most everything will come out just fine. BUT you might have to cross out or block off the "hot" option because that wouldn't let any water in.
Wait. Simpler answer: Use a Y-hose apaptor (there are some made from high-pressure washing machine hose) to connection cold to BOTH inlets on the washer. No signs neccesary. All settings will work (using cold water).David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Yes, the Y is the answer.Just feeding one side and capping the other won't alwasys work.Some do the mixing by temp. So if warm was selected after a minute or two it would try to go 100% hot to bring up the temp and nothing would happen.
My front loading Asko, uses very little water and heats it own (it only has a cold water connection). Think past the immediate problem of "how do I get 40 gal of hot water?" to the real problem of "how do I get my soxs clean?". You'll have more options that way.
I too love my front loader. Stuff gets clean on 1/2 or 1/3 the detergent. They use 40% as much water, including 40% as much hot water. And therefore they stress septic systems less. They also typically spin faster so the dryer doesn't have to work as hard.And they are so much gentler on clothes. A folded dinner napkin that goes in dirty comes out clean but still folded! The dryer generates much less lint as a result.Alas, they cost twice as much. But with heavy use, they'd be a payback pretty soon.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Here's another vote for the front loader.
Being a camp, I'm assuming it has a septic tank and a front loader would mean less pressure on that too (running on less water and detergent). It's also better for your clothes.