I’m going to a friend’s house tomorrow to check out a flooding situation he had this past Saturday. We had a LOT of rain, and it came in and flooded his den.
The outside was recently landscaped with slate pavers right up to the house, and they’re basically the same height as the inside. I know, I know,that’s half the problem right there.
I’m wondering if removing the first course of shakes and installing some Vycor to bridge the gap between the sheathing and foundation would help. I’m also probably going to have to remove the existing patio door and reseal that- maybe set it in a heavy bed of caulk (Lexel?)
Tomorrow I’m going to remove some of the sheetrock to check out the inside of the walls. I’ll post some pics tomorrow.
BTW, he also called the landscaper ( a mutual friend) to see what he can come up with. I’m thinking some kind of French drains under the patio.
Any and all ideas will be appreciated.
Replies
OK, went out to the job today and took some pics. Water's coming in under the door and sill plates. Here's my plan of attack. If anyone has other ideas, feel free.
1) remove first course of shakes. caulk joint between ply sheathing and concrete. Install Grace Vycor over joint.
2) remove existing patio door. Set new sill , probably Koma, in sealant. Reset door in sealant.
3)Install Subflor Advance ( http://www.subflor.com )panels over existing den concrete floor.
4) do sheetrock repairs
Anyone out there?
OK, I forgot to post the pics
Hello
one question where do the down spouts go? I'm my area the local inspectors make all down spouts removed from underground systems.
Perhaps the gutters system could be drawn out away from the house?They could be part of the problem?
Just a few thoughts.
C.A.G.C.A.G.
I forgot to look yesterday, but I think the downspouts already go into some kind of drainage system. I'll have to check.
About your flooding problem.
At work we dug a huge pit, and then filled it with stone, then back filled it with the dirt. the flooding problems have lessened since the pit was dug.
Perhaps something like that could be done at your place? The water has to have someplace to go.
My Dad use to tell me, water always wins! In your case I looks to be true.
The water problem needs to be dealt with first or else all you work will be for not.
Good luck.
C.A.G.
Luckily its not really "my " flooding problem- my house is high and dry.<G>
But I'm thinking something like you suggets will be part of the overall solution, maybe with a submerged pump to get the water even further away.
It's just not going to work. You can never make permanent repairs with caulk no matter how good it is. It might work for year, maybe even more but eventually it's going to leak again. When it leaks again it's your name that's going to come up. Lower the exterior grade or walk away.
thanks for the reply.
i am going to tell my friend, the HO, that he needs to deal with the standing water problem in the yard first, or I can't guarantee the room will stay dry.
he needs to get the landscaper back and work on re-grading the yard, and most likely putting in a drywell.
My first thought on seeing the outside picture is it's like a shower pan but without the raised threshold! Unless you can make the joint where the walls meet the floor totally waterproof, I think he'll continue to have problems until the flow of water is stopped before it reaches the perimeter of the house. I think your idea of French drains is going to be the only real long-term solution (other than totally regrading so everything slopes away from the house).
My old house was the same way--sliding glass doors at grade level and concrete patios and sidewalks all around. Every time it rained we had water inside. Other solution might be (besides the Vycor) re-setting the doors on higher thresholds that are sealed against water. I guess I'd view it like a reverse shower pan--with the shower on the ouside!
One of the things I am going to do is raise the patio door- set it on a higher threshold like you suggest. Water is coming under the door.
But its also coming under the sill plates in other areas of the room, which is why I want to seal the outside.
I know I probably can't stop all the water, but I'm hoping to minimize it. The house sits very low, and the backyard floods after just about every rain- not a good combination.
I'm planning on using that Subflor Advance system to deal with any small amount of water that might find its way in after the work is done so the carpeting doesn't get soaked again.
Thanks for your input.
I gotta wonder if anything you do inside is just a waste of time. Unless the guys deals with the problems outside, it's just going to happen again. Caulk isn't a solution - It's only temporary.Bringing ground water right up to floor level is absolutely nuts. Dropping the level of the patio is probably the only sound long term solution.
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I pretty much agree with everything you said. I'm just trying to come up with solutions.
The thing is, the patio was just installed this summer. I don't know how much it cost, but I think it was pretty pricey. As I said earlier, the landscaper who did the patio is a friend of the HO, as well as a friend of mine. So I imagine we'll all be sitting down to come up with a solution. I wish I was involved BEFORE the patio went in, tho.
Another twist- I think this den was originally just a concrete patio that someone, before my friend bought the house, closed in.
It also would have been nice if the original builder had just raised the house up a row of block or two.
If this was just out in last summer, I think your friend needs to look to the person who did this to pay for the fix.
Why is the person who invests your money called a broker?
I'm not getting in the middle of that LOL
I am going to make sure my friend realizes , that no matter what I do, something has to be done with all that water.
And this room has flooded before the work this summer, but the new patio seems to have made it worse.
But the 8-10 inches of rain we got this past Saturday didn't help, either.
Another twist- I think this den was originally just a concrete patio that someone, before my friend bought the house, closed in.
It also would have been nice if the original builder had just raised the house up a row of block or two.
Sounds like the same guy built the addition to my house and enclosed a patio. I am in pre-stage of demo and rebuilding with proper foundation and raised joist floor.
The big problem I have is that the main house is only about 1-1/2" above the den floor height.
So unless the whole house is jacked up (and its on a slab, too), raising the den floor won't do much good.
The den slab seems to be solid, tho. No signs of anything settling, or sagging.So that's not a problem.
Definately you need to grade away downward from the house. Is the house at least on higher ground than the immediate yard area?
Gotta get those rain gutter downspouts to get the water away. As mentioned, a deep hole filled in with rocks will help drain water away. A drywell would be better.
I'm not sure how you define friends, but with friends like that, who needs enemies. The guy booby-trapped this whole property. I'm not absolutely sure from the photos, but that wood the waood is laid with looks like plain pine. It will rot out in ten years in a raised de3ck, at best, but laid right to the ground level like thgat, it will only last 2-3 years. That is not professional woerk to sell a guy something that won't last until it is paid for, IMO.And I am with boss, that I can't imagine why anyone would want a deckk level with the interior. you are fighting against mother nature to fix this from the interior when the problem is outside. I know that some codes require the lack of a trip-step but by raising the door sill, you are throwing that away anyhow. If I were r3equirted to build even levels like that for - let's say, a wheel chair boiund person, I would have to dig in a french drain immediately outside the house, and make sure that it can handle the expected volumn of water.
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Landscape or slate at a level equal to the interior floor is definately more that half the problem. It is the problem.
If the landscaping and or deck / slate can not be lowered, I would consider sometihing more than french drains. We have installed enclosed drainage. We use catch basins at stratigic points and 4" drain lines to the street or lower areas around the house, away from the problem area.
A french drain, as I understand, allows water to seep into the ground more freely than common soil, by use of rocks and weed barrier cloth. Perforated pipe is usually installed in the bottom of a rock filled ditch to further carry water, but French drains can eventually fill with washed down soil and clog, the problem returns. They can also be overwhelmed if there are continious rains over a period of time.
As someone else suggested, I would try to deal with the exterior first before dealing with inside issues.
Ditto what Bosshog and Piffin said.
Short of fixing the real problem--the outside grade--anything else is poor carpentry.
:-)
thanks to all for your input.
I talked to the landscaper today, the one that did the patio, and he's going to put some more drainage pipes in directed to drywells. After that, I can make the repairs to the house.
And Piffin, the deck is pressure treated wood, not just pine. Not my first choice for a ground-level deck, but I wasn't asked.