…. Or rather, what should I do?
Several months ago our dishwasher started to slowly leak (due to a faulty design). We had laminate throughout the kitchen and by the time we realized there was water under the flooring it was too late. I fixed the dishwasher a while ago and have now just started to get to the floor. The house is on a raised foundation (crawlspace) w/ 1 3/4″ floor joists. The water damaged about 1/4 of the 3/8″ particle board subfloor so I decided to just replace the whole kitchen (150 sf) with 1/2 OSB sheeting. I have to use 1/2″ subfloor as the dishwasher was a tight fit with the 3/8″ subfloor. Unfortunatly there is some obvious water damage to the joists sitting directly under the dishwasher. Before I pulled the dishwasher all the way out I figured I was going to have to replace some of the joists. As you can see in the pictures, there are a few darker areas which are actually closer to green. I can take a screwdriver to the areas and they have the same feel and sound as if I was poking at an unaffected spot. I almost think I could take an orbital sander and remove the top 1/32″ and it would be fine but before I button this up I want to get some professional insight. The black spots you see in the pics is just the prior paper that was put down. Do I need to do any additional inspecting, i.e. going under the house to see if there is any evident damage. I will be taking several percautions to make sure leaking water will not be an issue in the future.
I HATE WATER
Thanks for your time
Ryan
Replies
You definitely need to take a look below, but it doesn't look bad from above. Unless there is obvious damage to the joists, which I doubt, you're good to go. You might wish to consider using 1/2" PTS plywood instead of OSB for underlayment though.
With as good as the plank sub floor looks, I would be very surprised if there was any structural damage.
If the dishwasher is already a tight fit, won't it be worse with a thicker sub floor? Most standard sub flooring materials are 1/4 inch. OSB will probably be OK if you are putting laminate down but will need to be ripped out or covered over if you use most any other kind of flooring. Unless you need the extra height, if you are using laminate flooring again, you may not need an additional sub floor at all.
I will in fact be laying laminate down again. After this whole fiasco I told myself I wouldn't do laminate again and purchased 150sf of travertine and was preparing to put down a Ditra Membrane. I had some doubts about instaling this myself and then found the same laminate that was originally in the kitchen. I will be making a 2" metal pan for the dishwasher to sit in and will also be purchasing a couple water leak detectors. My fingers are crossed that I never have to deal with this again. Since I have already stapled down 3 sheets of the OSB I figure I will just continue to use it.
Thanks,
Ryan
Count me as beng confused why you are going to 1/2' underlayment too. What kind of finish flooring are you putting back down? There are ways of thinning this down.
On the DW, is it adjusted all the way down?
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"3/8" particle board subfloor" I think you mean "3/8" Underlayment" because;
"w/ 1 3/4" floor joists" You probably mean those planks we see in the pictures. Those would be the subfloor.
The floor joists are only visible from below. They are in a verticle plane w/ the subfloor laying on the top edges. They will have 11 1/2", 14 1/2", or 22 1/2" spaces between them. They will be 7 1/2", 9 1/2", or 11 1/2" on the long face and 1 1/2" t0 2" on the short (edge) face.
You really should go in the crawl space with your screwdriver and inspect them before you do anything else.
I'm with everyone else that you should use plywood underlayment. A flooring supply shop will carry 1/4" plywood made specifically for underlayment.
SamT
My apologies, I do mean underlayment. What exactly will be the added benefits of using plywood or PTS plywood (maybe they are the same thing). The reason I went with 1/2" underlayment is because my transition into the dining room will be level and because I figured the added thickness couldn't hurt. I was told to use OSB by two individuals but I might have said as a subfloor.
Ryan
Plywood is a little stronger and more water-resistant than your run-of-the-mill OSB underlayment. Either is certainly "adequate", so long as they don't get too wet. Neither will stand up to soaking.In favor of OSB is that it's cheaper, usually flatter, and more likely to be available in a 4-sided tongue-and-groove format that will lay flatter once installed.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Lemme see if I got this right. You had 3/8" particle board underlayment over 3/4" (or possibly 7/8") plank subfloor/sheathing. You haven't been under the house to check out the conditon of the joists.
You've removed all the 3/8" particle board and exposed the plank subfloor. It looks generally good with a few greenish spots. No substantial rot detected by probing with a screwdriver.
I can see no reason to not simply put down new 3/8" underlayment (though you can go to 1/2" if you wish, and you can make it all fit). You might want to paint the greenish areas with some sort of wood preservative first (whatever brand has the most warnings on the package -- especially good is the "causes cancer in California" warning ;) ).
It's always wise to do an inspection under the house every few years, to check for problems. Especially given the apparent age of this house (probably 50s vintage or earlier, given the plank subfloor), there is a potential for all sorts of problems with rot, termites, etc. (Especially likely around tub, toilet, and kitchen sink, and any areas where sprinklers may be throwing water against the house.) But given that the subfloor doesn't appear to be seriously compromised, there's no reason to suspect that this specific incident caused significant damage to the framing below.
>>some sort of wood preservative first (whatever brand has the most warnings on the package -- especially good is the "causes cancer in California" warning ;) ).<<
ROFLOL ...... Yep, that would be the brand I would choose! The stinkier the better.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
In the picture below, where the drill and hammer meet, I have 1 subfloor board that has a bit of movement to it and squeaks ever so softly. Is there anything I can do, short of replacing it, that will help the situation. I'm thinking that with the 1/2" OSB underlayment and the thin membrane that goes down before the laminate that I might not even experience any issues. Now I'm thinking I might drill some pocket holes and secure this piece to the pieces on either side. The subfloor is 1 3/4" thick. Any recommendations?
Ryan
View Image
First off, make sure it's well fastened to the joists below -- a loose nail is often the culprit. Drive a few deck or structural screws through the board and into the joist below. (One next to each nail in the area -- drill pilot holes if the wood seems like it's likely to split.) But if it seems to be adjacent boards rubbing together the pocket screws should be just the trick.This is a good time to give the entire area a good walking over and fasten down anything that seems to have the slightest tendency to squeek.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin