I am at the end of my rope in frustration.
Our water is so awful. Our clothes are getting wrecked and cleaning (especially baths and showers) is just nuts.
But I can’t figure out how to find a reputable water softener installer. Anytime we’ve had to bring in a specialist in the past, I’ve gotten personal recommendations. But I can’t seem to turn up someone in the City of Chicago for water softeners.
So! Detective work is needed. What rocks would you look under to find a great water softener guy/gal?
Replies
I went through the work of finding a watersoftener recently. I ended up having a plumber instal one. It was beyond my capabilities.
He didn't know the softener very well and since he doesn't instal very many of them the warrenty is questionable.
I would suggest a person who is a dealer. Not Culigan though. They want to sign you up with a service contract.
You want to get the right size of softener for your houshold. Otherwise it will recharge too often. But a bigger one won't make your water softer.
From what I understand there are alot of small dealers that don't have a budget to advertise. For some of them it might be part time. I'm not sure. Maybe going the google route and going to their dealer/installer list.
jmo, I could be wrong, but I think you're worrying too much.
I suppose someone could screw up even a water softener installation, but I'm not sure how. Main water line goes in, main water line comes out. Plug it into an outlet (assuming it's electric powered; some new softeners use the water as power and don't need plugging in, or programming). Program it according to how your water tests and the manufacturer's chart in the owner's manual. Not much trouble to install one yourself, if you're okay with doing a bit of plumbing.
I'd be more concerned about the quality & warranty of the box itself, although even then, they're pretty simple devices. Unless a computer fries, you'll likely get at least 20 years out of a softener.
Other details to note: I would bypass the softener for outdoor taps, so that you're not adding salt to your lawn/car washing. Although you can drink softened water, I would still install a reverse osmosis tap for drinking water, so as to avoid the sodium. If you are going to drink the water, a healthy alternative is to use potassium salt instead, although it's somewhat more expensive (and still not acceptable for the lawn). Or you can tie a drinking tap into the bypass water line, as drinking hard water can provide you with trace minerals.
Off the top of my head, large dealers of water softeners: Culligan, Sears.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help...
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
I think you're right, I am thinking about this a lot.
But I don't muck around with plumbing much. And I would like the softener to bypass the drinking and outdoor lines.
I can find plently of info on the boxes (some of it on these very boards!)...no problem there. I've already decided against calling Culligan.
I have found that the quality of anything installed is only as good as the person installing it in a lot of cases. And that is what I'm hoping to find.
I can't believe it's so difficult! In a large city yet!
Check out http://www.softenerparts.com
Recently my softener went out on us and it sucked, so I called the plumber, he won't touch it, tells me to call culligan, called and got a repair quote, but I googled around and found a few sites on the web and fixed it myself. The look difficult but they really are quite simple. I suggest googling around, and do it yourself, and soften all the water, don't try to selectiveley soften diffrent branches, it really doesnt cost that much to run one thats set up properly.
Good Luck
try a water drilling company
BIL works for one and they install water treatment systems.
they also test water
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
In the Chicago-land area, I would recommend Hartwig Plumbing & Heating as an installer, and I would recommend the Addie brand of water softener. It is made in Janesville, WI, relative simple and very dependable.
Oh man! A name! I worship you. How do you know Hartwig?
They are a customer of mine, in the HVAC side of their business (they buy sheet metal, furnaces and grilles, etc from me). I have worked with some of their folks on some boiler projects. They are a solid outfit.
The Addie brand softener is one that I researched and found on my own, installed one in my last home and one in my present home. You can buy them at most Blain's Farm & Fleet stores throughout northern IL.
Timbo,Whereabouts are you in northern Illinois?We might be neighbors.I agree with the Addie brand as reputable and reliable. Farm and Fleet, also. I've installed those, Internationals (most plumbing suply houses around here), and those offered by Cuno (lots of N series), also acquired thru the same local plumber's supply houses. Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Goldhiller---
Ahem...how long has your puppy (in your profile) been a smoker?
Not actually a pup, but a beagle.He's been smoking for years now. Ever since I reamed him a new one about spittin' around the house as a result of his heavy chewin' habit.It's his drinkin' habits that worry me more. He's developed an appreciation for the single-malt scotches. $$$$(That fella actually belongs to my brother. Wandered into their yard one day and after weeks of posting at every vet clinic around and in the newpaper to find the original owner with no responses......Buster became theirs. That was like 8 years ago or so.)Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 3/17/2005 9:24 pm ET by GOLDHILLER
About 5 miles north of Pecatonica, a mile or so east of Pec Rd.
I can be on your doorstep in 20 minutes or under. <G>Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
I think we talked about this before. In a previous life, I was just "Tim". Took a break from BT for about a year an couldn't remember how to get back in, so I just started over, so now I'm "Timbo". Yer somewhere south of Freeport as I recall, right?
You're memory is darn good. Better than mine anyway. I do recall a Tim here at BT from near Pec, now that you mention it.Timbo I won't forget so easily. And you're also correct about my locale. Good to see you back here. :-)Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
BT can be addicting. Found myself takin' too many "breaks". It's good to be back.
Hey, you know a good mason in the area. Gotta get a heavily used fireplace rebuilt. Also, need to reflash some chimneys.
Maybe sometime we'll meet over at Ridott corners for few cold ones.
Yeah, I know a couple masons.I'll send an e-mail off-forum.Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
as soon as Goldhiller picks up a pipe wrench go over to Ohio or some place futher away fer a beer or something fer yur own safety...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Hey! Twasn't intentional, ya know. :-) That hand's all better, I hope. ??Just one goat and they never let a guy forget about that. ROAR.Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Installing a softener is pretty simple. The complications occur when it gets complicated. ;)
Basically you have 3 plumbing connections: Water in, water out, drain. The drain should be fed into a "standpipe" (washing machine drain) or some such vs being "hard plumbed" to the drain line. (I fixed a Y off the washer standpipe for mine.)
If you want outside faucets, cold water in the kitchen, etc, on hard water then that can be easy or hard, depending on how the pipes run and how accessible they are. In my case I plumbed just one sillcock with hard water (the one directly off the utility room), and also plumbed the cold water to the kitchen sink with hard water (possible since it was conveniently above the utility room).
Note that you want to leave cold water for bathroom fixtures soft, since that will keep them a lot cleaner.
And you of course want the hot water to be soft. In addition to making bathing and washing go better, this extends the life of the water heater.
It's usually not a problem, but you need to observe some minor restrictions re the distance between softener and water heater. If the softener is too close to the water heater (in pipe feet) then hot water can get back into the softener. But this is usually not a problem even when they're side-by-side, because there will be several feet of pipe in-between.
It doesn't hurt to put a whole-house water filter ahead of the softener. This helps keep rust and sediment out of the softener, extending it's life. The large size filter (about 4" in diameter) is better than the smaller ones they sell.
Think about what style/brand of softener you want. At least be sure to get one with some sort of water metering, so it recharges based on water used vs time. I prefer the two-resin-tank models such as the Kinetico, but they're fairly pricy.
Some brands (Culligan, Kinetico, etc) require that their own installers do the work, so picking the softener may solve the installer issue. (But these installers generally won't install a filter or do any plumbing rerouting you want, so you may have to hire a plumber to do that separately.)
I can't really guide you to a local knowledgeable installer, but will make a couple comments here.
You say your water is awful, but I suspect that you haven't had a comprehensive water test yet and that's the first step in determining what types of treatment will be necessary to achieve a good result. I wouldn't suggest assuming that only a common softener will be required. You might need other types of filters to remedy problems that a softener cannot. Maybe yes, but maybe no. Only a comprehensive water test can tell you for sure.
You might need further treatment and filtration, for instance, if odor is present and personally offensive. I'm suspecting that you're on city water and like to think that things like suspended particle filtration and sufficient chlorination is handled by the city's equipment prior to pipeline delivery. The taste of the stuff tells me there's plenty of chlorination going on. Lots of free-chlorine residual for my palette. But.......I don't have any real knowledge of the contents in the water supply in Chicago other than every time we go there, I wish I had brought some water from home to drink. Ugh.
That being said, if the results of the test show that only a softener is required, then all you have to do is get one plumbed in, calibrated to your water hardness and keep it supplied with salt; relatively simple tasks. I would suggest a metered head rather than the cheaper models with a day-clock only. Any competent plumber can handle this easily. Have you tried asking your neighbor's who they use? That should give you a good handle on which plumbers currently service your immediate area and which ones have satisfied their customers. Frequently/usually the service people or installer have slapped their company's sticker right on the machine.
But I wouldn't assume that any given plumber is really schooled in the art of full water treatment. Around here, most are not. Some like to toss terms around that makes it sound as if they are, but trip up quickly or suddenly become mute when asked "telling" questions.
I like to think that a densely populated area like Chicago would have many folks in the water treatment biz and those should be easy to find. Should be the yellow pages under water treatment or similar. Who to trust? Again, your neighbors might be your best source for that. Or........if private wells are being drilled out in the burbs, try those well drillers previously suggested. They should be able to guide you to a reputable installer who also services the equipment when that becomes necessary. I too, would avoid outfits like Culligan. Around these parts anyway, they've been known to "prey" on the unknowledgeable and desperate.
Here's a couple of links that may prove helpful.
http://www.goodwaterco.com/watereducation/comprob.htm
And here you will find some info on the various medias used to treat those problems that require more than simple softening.
http://www.ohiopurewaterco.com/autobackwash.html
The folks at the above links offer water testing, in addition to the equipment to treat that water. (Return to home page and should find links there.) So shouldn't those local well drillers, as they usually have preferred labs to do their testing. They might even be able to guide you to an installer in your area. It doesn't cost anything or much to give any of the above a call.
No matter which route you go, the test results should include the suggested treatment and equipment, what order it should be plumbed in, which media to use if an auto-backwashing unit is required, etc. A local plumber isn't likely to appreciate it if you buy the equipment yourself and then have them install. If they do the install of your purchase, they won't likely stand behind the equipment if something does go awry.
Side note: Water treatment for removal of undesirable taste and/or odor (chorine residual, for example) can expensive or darn simple. Usually granulated charcoal is used to handle this sort of thing and is easily placed in the basement on a dedicated drinking water line. Just install a separate faucet for that at your kitchen sink. Since you are only supplying a residence, it's doubtful you would need a large unit filled with charcoal. Problem with installing a large unit, if you don't need one, is that this charcoal should be changed out every six months (max), so this large unit approach would be far more expensive than installing a simpler cartridge unit with a replaceable filter in that dedicated line. In a normal residence, you don't usually need the filtering capacity of these larger units, which are the size of a standard water softener, for taste and odor control of drinking water only.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 3/17/2005 12:06 pm ET by GOLDHILLER
Did you check Sears ? I put in my own softener, it's not hard; but, I tell our friends who aren't into doing a solder job, to check out Sears.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Yeah, much as I hate to say it, the Sears units are fairly good value for the dollar, and designed for DIY installation. Plus parts are readily available. Their biggest problem is basically lifetime, since SOMETHING will invariably take them out in 8-10 years, whereas you should get twice that from other brands.
Did you run the regeneration chemicals through it after 5 years ?In any case, Sears also have pretty decent techs working for them to do installs too..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Only time I ever had the Sears techs out was when they replaced the failed brine tank in my first unit at 9.5 years. They seemed competent enough, but they sure grumbled a lot.
Check out Kinetico. A little pricey....ok very pricey. In Indianapolis they're about $2200 installed (I paid less with contractor discount) . It regenerates only on demand, very efficient, and compact. I only use 1 bag of salt per 4-6 weeks with 5 living in the house. Installer was very professional and also installed filter inline before softener. I've had the unit a few years and even moved it with me when I moved. Unit uses no electricity so no clock to worry about if/when power goes out.
My aunt has had one in her house for 22 years with no problems.
Good luck,
John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
http://www.lazarobuilders.com
Yeah, I've got a Kinetico too, after wearing out two Sears units. Only complaint is that the salt tank is too small -- I'd like to be able to fill the thing and then forget about it for 6-12 months.
A bag of salt every month and a half isn't too shabby. At my last house I put a countertop over the top of the unit next to the slop sink in the garage. You can't do that over most units. And on most units you'll be dumping 2-3 bags of salt a month (remember family of 5).John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
http://www.lazarobuilders.com
Living in the Chicago area myself and using Chicago water, I am not sure why you are having water troubles. Chicago water is pretty soft and clean, what with coming from Lake Michigan, and then being filtered.
If you are having troubles, then you might want to consider looking elsewhere in your plumbing system.
(If you are really in one of the suburbs with well water, check with your local municipality about hardness. They typically are quite willing to talk to you. And, if you have your own well, you are of course on your own.)
I know...it's perplexing. We've replaced a good deal of the 90 year old plumbing (with copper pipe) but we're still getting this white film. It's really noticeable. And our laundry is quite grey. We didn't have that in Evanston, which is right on the lake.
The water doesn't taste funny or smell funny. We are up in the NW corner of Chicago...between the North Branch of the Chicago River and the North Shore Channel.
The most recent chemical analysis for the city is here ( http://egov.cityofchicago.org/WaterManagement/cmpChm03aug.pdf ) And the historical reports are all here ( http://egov.cityofchicago.org/WaterManagement/water.html ). Though this doesn't account for the mains, so it might be something specific to this neighborhood. Trouble is...most of our neighbors have been here for decades and just put up with it. But they are retired and have time to scrub and scrub! I swear, the film on the bathtub is horrendous.