We talk about the best tools and give DW hell along with HD and Lowes although for the money they provide a service to us . DW sets the standard for pricing other tools as they are the number one producer of some tool types. If none other than competition they help us all in our pocket book.
Home Depot and Lowes offers materials on Sundays all day long and every evening of the week. We didnt have that option in the old days with the local lumber yard. Why didnt the good ole local lumber yard offer the choices they do? Why werent they prosperous enough to stock what we needed all the time ?
Im aftraid Ive led you on.
No one gripes about their trucks . How come ? To me they seem to be the biggest pos we own we call a tool. They over charge us every mile and cost much more than all of our tools . I can prove it .
I dont know how much a pickup weighs so excuse that please. 10,000 lbs?
Ive got a half ton pick up that gets 11 miles per gallon on a good day. My other truck is much better and gets 18 on the hwy but struggles in town to get 14.
18 wheelers are pulling 80,000 lbs and getting 6 to 7.5 per gallon. They can haul 8 to 10 cars and do it all day long .
How did they do it ? The trucking industry demanded it . They sized the tires , the rear end , motor, tranny to match each other at 1500 rpms at 70 miles per hour. Or there abouts.
Tires are critical. Both in size and wear.. Take the cost of the tire and divide it by the life it got and keep records of the overall miles. Can anyone tell me the best tire for the buck and proove it ? They can. At least on their size tires.
Did you know that it cost realitively 30 percent less to drive slower? Theres a big difference in breaking wind between 60 and 70 miles per hour.
I set my cruise today on the interstate . and tried to make my engine turn 1500 rpms which is considered the “sweet range”. It happened at 60 mph. If we got paid by the mile that would off set it but we dont .
I realize this is just another Rooney post by me .
Why dont we demand our trucks get 25mpg just for a start ? That would make S-10s get about 40mpg?
Tim
Replies
Interesting. I suspect the answer lies somewhere in the same realm that we find ourselves griping about our customers when we know the right answer but they can only afford half of it. Cost. I could add 5 mpg to my truck with some add ons to reprogram the computer, open the exhaust . . . but its not worth 2500 in parts to me.
"Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
I thought about that but I checked that too . <G>
A new class A truck costs 100 grand before you start adding wow features and styles. Anyway that 100 grand truck will turn and burn for 700 thousand miles pulling that 80,000 lb load most of its life. Rebuild the motor and get another 500 thousand and call it done . Their are trucks working every day with 1.5 million on the frame and body. Some on the same motor. I know of one .
I wont price a pickup becuse they are wide ranges of prices. But the 100 grand truck comes with a 6x8 x 7 foot high sleeper.
They dont add anything to the truck. It gets that mpg rolled off the line.
Just for giggles ;
5 miles per gallon you said ;
200,000divided by 5 = 40,000 gallons @ 2.65 per gallon = 106,000 dollars.
Tim
Just for giggles;
5 miles per gallon you said;
200,000divided by 5 = 40,000 gallons @ 2.65 per gallon = 106,000 dollars.
Tim, I think your math is a little off. If RW normally gets 15 mpg, he will consume 13,333 gallons of fuel for 200,000 miles. If he can modify his truck to get 20 mpg, his consumption will drop to 10,000 mpg over 200k, which is a savings of (3,333*2.65) $8,833.
My '03 Nissan Frontier has gotten 26.53 mpg over 21,263 miles. It has a 4 cyl. engine with modest power. I can haul some tools and building materials if I need to.
I paid $11,000 out the door to purchase the truck with 5,784 miles on it. That price included trading in a Dodge van that was worth at the MOST $1,000 (Think DustinF's van and beat it with a baseball bat). I expect to get 200,000 miles of service from the vehicle, so that will be 195,000 for $11,500 (adding for reasonable trade in value).
That's $.058/mile, your $100k big rig that will go for 700k costs $.143/mile. I would say that my ROI is just fine.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
That's $.058/mile, your $100k big rig that will go for 700k costs $.143/mile.
Yer off on your numbers too. Im scatchin my head tryin to figgure out what you meant. I guess the question is where you put that decimal with the 143. If it was meant to go behind the three its not right . Owner operators are running for .82 to 1.00 pm with fuel sucharge of no more than them paying 1.25 . They say their cost of running the truck including paying the driver is 1.00 per mile but you have to figgure a BUNCH of things to get that figgure and it depends on the truck whether its new or an old one . So theres some fixed costs as well as some varibles too. Either truck payments or garage bills or lord help them both.
You are getting as good a mpg as any Ive heard , but a pickup sucks comapred to the efficiency of a class A truck.
Just for giggles;
5 miles per gallon you said;
200,000divided by 5 = 40,000 gallons @ 2.65 per gallon = 106,000 dollars
Thats not wrong from what he said . He said he could save 5 mpg by spending 2500.
I took the expected mi over the term of the truck and divided by 5 to represent a unit of 1 gallon. Times the current price.
Where is that wrong? Im easily corrected if you will point it out . I didnt study your figgures except I seen instant problem with what I mentiojned.
Tim
>> Yer off on your numbers too. Im scatchin my head tryin to figgure out what you meant.Jon's numbers aren't wrong, but they're highly simplified. Jon was amortizing the cost of the vehicle based on an estimated life measured in miles travelled. A $100k big rig which is expected to run 700k miles will cost $0.143 per mile; his used pickup cost $11,500 and he hopes to get 200k miles, a cost of $0.058 per mile. Neither number includes fuel, oil, maintenance, insurance, licenses/permits, or drivers' salaries.>> but a pickup sucks comapred to the efficiency of a class A truckProve it. Are you assuming hauling 40k pounds of furniture across country or 200 pounds of lumber across town?
I already did proove it .
And that wasnt what I was sratchin my head about .
I should mention that truck will still be worth 40 thousand or so after it gets 700,000. At least thats the prices on them . I dont have a clue if they ae getting it but neither do I know about 4 wheelers either when I see them priced in the paper. Its a longer math problem that . How much is a little truck worth after it gets 200,000.
Thats not even the point in proof. I didnt intend to whizz anyone off . If anyone loves feeding fuel to a pickup then Im all for um.
Heres your proof again and you can play with the mumbers till the cows come home;
An A class truck pulls 80,000 lbs cross country at 5 to 7.5 per gallon. Most of the new ones that are streamlined get 6 to 7.5 mpg.
My 1/2 ton chevy tool truck with ladder racks and boxes loaded down on a good day gets 11. It has got 9 and it I guess it weighs around 5,000 so Im told here.
If I got 24 , I couldnt beat that class A truck for efficiency. Even if I got a lot more than that. That same class A truck can hook to a steel trailer and haul 10 of my pick ups and ask for the speed lane on interstate 40 getting the fuel mpg I advised .
Thats your proof if you really wanted it .
Tim
I looked for a thread I read at Class A drivers . com They dont have a search function. ugh!
Any way this guy bought a new truck and said he Screwed Up to start his thread. Theres about 500 posts per night over there and its been a while since I read it .
Anyway he was only getting 5 mpg and everyone said there was somthing very bad wrong which is how te whole thread went of people telling how many mpg they are getting .
Ive heard it several other places too but one phrase that hangs is they figgure 5mpg as thats the worst they could f up and do.
Tim
Tim,
The other poster explained what I meant. The purchase cost of the truck amortized over the estimated useful life is 5.8 cents per mile vs. 14.3 cents per mile. I'm not looking at all at fuel, tires, oil changes, etc.
Just for giggles;
5 miles per gallon you said;
200,000divided by 5 = 40,000 gallons @ 2.65 per gallon = 106,000 dollars
Thats not wrong from what he said . He said he could save 5 mpg by spending 2500.
I took the expected mi over the term of the truck and divided by 5 to represent a unit of 1 gallon. Times the current price.
Where is that wrong? Im easily corrected if you will point it out . I didnt study your figgures except I seen instant problem with what I mentiojned.
I assumed that RW gets 15 mpg currently, with the mods he could boost to 20 mpg.
In his current state, he would consume 13,333 gallons of gas over the course of 200k miles. If he were to boost his mileage to 20mpg, over 200k miles he would consume 10,000 gallons, or a difference of 3,333 gallons.
Since RW has to pay for 3,333 less gallons of gas at $2.65 a gallon, his cost reduction would be $8,833.
And regarding your other arguments, I'm sure the benefits of a big rig would be nice in some aspects, but as others have said, the rock hard ride, 25 gallon oil changes (I don't really know if this is true, I've heard their oil pans are huge), and wake-up-the-neighborhood noise is a significant trade off.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jeez, I've been griping about what trucks are available for the last 6 months, if i'd have known you wanted to listen to it I would have told you. My little datsun diesel truck gets about 36 mpg in mixed city/highway driving, but it's just too small for what I'm doing anymore, so I went with the only modern diesel truck available- a 3/4 ton truck that gets 18 or so how I drive it.
Granted the thing could tow a combined weight of 18,000 or so, but I just need something that can handle normal construction stuff- and I don't see anything else out there that can do it with better gas milage. OTR trucks are made for what they're used for- it seems like our trucks are made for what we might possibly want to use them for once or twice a year- pulling fifth wheels up into the mountains or something. If these trucks were more purpose built for suburban/highway driving with a payload of under 2000, we'd be getting somewhere.
By the way, my diesel F-250 weighs in the neighborhood of 7500 lbs empty.
zak
Just look at the way trucks have been marketed. They drop a yard of crushed stone in the bed from 15 feet in the air, drive it up the side of a mountain, play a guitar, and tell you that it has more horsepower than the other guy's truck. They never feature that their profit per unit is $10K, that driving it will severely undercut your profit, and that you will spend $2K per year on repairs because it's actually a poorly engineered product for what it does.
Some day they'll show you a service vehicle that will get 28 mpg, run for 200K miles, and not break the bank. It will probably look ugly and come from Asia, but it will make you money.
Dodge Sprinter
Just yesterday I traded my Ford Ranger for a new Chevy Siverado.
The reason? I'm a Ford guy but the Ranger is a 15 year old design and it shows. It's nothing like my Explorer. Not as tight, not as rattle free, not as well built and it was starting to appear to be not as reliable either.
Plus, I use my truck and it just wasn't gonna go the 200K miles I need a truck to go the way it was being used.
Over $1K in repairs in the last six weeks and the dealer still wasn't sure if he had fixed the problem.
I almost cried when I left. For all it's faults I loved that Ranger.
Got a new Siverado 1500. 4.3L V-6, Automatic, Custom cloth seat, sliding rear window, Cruise, Air and AM/FM-CD Player, Deep tint glass Chrome bumpers and a Locking rear axle.
Out the door............ $15K even plus tax and tags.
My Ranger never got better than 17 MPG. Fuel usage was the whole reason I bought a small truck. 3.0 V-6, 4 speed auto and a 3.73 axle. Averaged around 15 MPG with a high of 17.7 on the highway once or twice. 2700 RPM at 70 MPH on the highway.
I've had tons of people tell me their Chevy and GMC's were getting 20 or better.
On the way home last night........4.3 V-6 4 SPeed Auto and a 3.32 Axle. Turning 1100 RPM at 70 MPH on the highway.
We'll see.
put synthetic oil in it and watch the mileage go up. Our new toyotaat went from 20+ to 24 just by changing oil over. I have never seen it fail. every vehicle I have getss synthetic
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I guess a lot of it has to do with the way you drive. I've never gotten >14 MPG in my 2001 Tundra V8. +95% of the 77K miles I've got on it are highway, going against traffic (not rush hour crawling).
Robert
I went from a Ford Ranger to a Chevy Silverado about two years ago and my gas milage went up from 16-17 to 21-22.
The Silverado has a V-8, while the Ranger had a V-6.
Mechanic told me the reason for the poor gas milage on the Ranger was that four letter word on the tailgate!
Mechanic told me the reason for the poor gas milage on the Ranger was that four letter word on the tailgate!
In the past, My Fords have always kicked my CHevy's a$$es in terms of reliability.
Problem with the Ranger is simple. It's a 16 year old design that Ford has milked far too long and it shows.
It was like night and day to drive my 2003 Ranger and my 2003 Explorer back to back. NOwhere near the same level of engineering and build quality.
http://www.classadrivers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15119&sid=f1d25eb8e5af71813905ec23ef552f91
TruckerView ImageJoined: 12 Jun 2005Posts: 1118Location: Cranbrook BC
One thing is that most pick-up trucks are blocky and so it takes a lot of horsepower just to move the air around it. I guess the new Dodge trucks come about as close as any to being streamlined. (Almost left the "s" out of horsepower--makes the thing an entirely different statement! Like when the Jeopardy answer was "a lewd or lascivious person" in the category "Garden Tools" and the guy said, "What's a hoe.")
The other thing is that, at least the way ads are slanted, buyers seem to want a truck that will haul a yacht up hill and be able to pass Ferrari's while doing it. That takes some gasoline consumption.
I bought a new Silverado last year. 4.8L V8 (285hp, about the same torque), stick, 2WD, empty weight about 4750 lb.
I drive like a maniac and never spend more than a couple minutes on the highway at a time. Average mileage: 18
The few times I have made highway runs got the mileage near 22.
4WD kills mileage from the extra weight and rotating machinery to the extra height and clearance. I got the 2WD (w/locker) because I only used 4WD two or three times a year, so the extra costs weren't justified. I really thought I would miss having 4-wheel. I don't.DCS Inc.
"Whaddya mean I hurt your feelings, I didn't know you had any feelings." Dave Mustaine
I drove an Isuzu NPR w/a 17-foot box on it, fully loaded, from Ann Arbor, Michigan to Seattle, Washington a few years back.
View Image
Did 2-lanes a good chunk of the way, especially in the Rockies (as long as I'm making the trip, it might as well be a scenic trip). Drove the Highway to the Sun in Glacier/Waterton NP in Montana.
Pretty consistently averaged 18-19 mpg. Best days run was 24 mpg in the Rockies.
Hint...it's not necessarily the aerodynamics.—
No, but aero does play a role 50 or so and up.
But the whole 18 wheeler to truck thing is really apples to bananas.
18 wheelers are optimized, right from the start to do ONE thing...haul stuff at 65MPH or so, going straight.
Thats not even CLOSE to what a pickup truck does...
AND they sell to different people!
Pnce we (the government and us) figure out that europe has it figured bettter than we do diesel wise, we'll be far better off.
(At least the new breed of diesels, like the Audis)Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
But the whole 18 wheeler to truck thing is really apples to bananas
Im going to respond to that and another post that thought I wanted to drive a big truck around or ride on their tires.
Yes it is certainly is apples to bannanas. Thats not the point either.
I know what a class A truck is for but it made a statement some arent seeing , so see it .
Its telling you that your truck sucks whether you like it or not. Things wont change till we get fed up. If a A truck can pull 80,000 lbs down the hwy getting even 5 mpg then what should a vehicle that weighs 5,000 get not pulling or hauling anything ?
The trucking industry wont put up with it , why should we?
Tim
Because the public won't buy a 100 horse turbo diesel pickup truck with a constant velocity transmission that makes its power between 1500 and 1850 rpm, gets to 60 MPH in 30 seconds or so, and goes down the highway on rock hard tires getting great mileage all day long!
We're 'Muricuns! Look at what sells! Big - BIG - BIGGER! And the engine choices often sell more numbers in the larger sizes. Look at all the hop up kits for even the most powerful truck engines! Guys chip them and do exhausts and all sorts of stuff to make a Dodge Cummins Diesel go from very powerful to over 600 ft lbs of torque!
Look, you're preaching to the choir! But Ford et al can't take a chance making a truck that won't sell. The public rules. Heck for years I used a Saab 9000 turbo becuase I could haul 11 ft long items inside, along with a ton of stuff, and get 28 MPG, but still fly when I needed it to.
We are, in general, a nation of over eating, overweight, supersize it people...
Our government needs to make diesels more desireable, and change the regs so the hot stuff from Europe can be sold and used here. Will they? Not if the voting public doesn't demand it.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
The sprinter is a 2.7 five cylinder and gets the job done with great mileage. Problem being made in germany and final assembled in the usa the price has all but priced it out of the market.
Ford has the transit in the UK and could be in the usa in no time with high mpg.
You sound like my kind of guy- I've got a saab 900 turbo, as well as a F-250 diesel for hauling the really big stuff, but I'd buy one of the trucks you talk about in a second. I'm pretty used to a little diesel truck with 65 horsepower, so 100 sounds great.zak
> Yes it is certainly is apples to bannanas.
I'd have said more like grapes and watermellons. Aerodynamic drag varies with the surface area, weight varies with volume. So, it's the square and cube thing again. The bigger the vehicle, the less drag you have per pound of load. The other economic factor that pushes long haul trucks to be as big as possible is that you amortize the really big expense, the driver, over more cargo.
-- J.S.
Yea it could be that its not American made !
Tim
"I dont know how much a pickup weighs so excuse that please. 10,000 lbs?"
More like half that. My one ton dually weighs about 6,500 empty. And it has a dump bed and hoist on it.
"18 wheelers are pulling 80,000 lbs and getting 6 to 7.5 per gallon."
I don't think so, Tim.
It's more like 2 MPG. And remember those are almost all highway miles.
"Why dont we demand our trucks get 25mpg just for a start ?"
We probably could. But you'd have to downsize the engines dramatically.
Think about the HP to weight ratio of an 18 wheeler. That run maybe a 400 HP engine, and they weigh 80,000# loaded. That's about 200# per HP.
Take a 5,000# pickup at 200# per HP and you've got a 25HP engine. Basically a large 2 cylinder lawn mower engine.
Would you be willing to live with that in order to get better gas mileage?
So Boss you're saying GM has a 10,000 HP Pickup truck coming? (200 x 5000 lbs)
I'm in
Listen to what I mean - Not what I say.(-:
I'm perfectly happy being married to a man who thinks PBS is something women get once a month [Jill Taylor]
Big rigs average 5.5 to 6.5 mpg now.
My dodge 2500 gets about 10mpg on a good day and it weighs 8200 empty ..or so it says...I talked to a mechanic friend of mine and he says todays truck are much more powerful then trucks from as early as 4 years ago.....but the more powerful engines also cause much more consumption. the gas prices havent helped either..
1 more thing has anyone noticed that lately that there are way more gas guzzling vehicles on the even though the gas prices have risen so much
V10?Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
V 10 heck yea. Those crazy Germans will try anything. How about an air cooled engine..geez no antifreeze no water pump. OK they do get cold in the winter but what the heck. My Porsche 911 does better in the snow than most 4x4s (as long as it not too deep). If Subaru only made a pickup...assembled in the US of course...by mexicans probably.
Mooney may have been a little optimistic at 7.5 mpg but a quick google shows a lot of green sites talking about improving from the current 6 mpg.
Average mpg in the early '70s was about 4 mpg.
The dramatic increase in fuel costs in the last couple of years is going to see another round of innovation like the boat tail rear end design for the trailer that's towards the top of the google results.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the average mileage increase by another 50% or so in the next thirty years.... hope to be around to see it happen too :)
Marc
They might be lieing about it too. I figgure windage about 6 to 6.5 s being correct . Ive done quite a bit of reading about it . The design of the truck changed to get those figgues. Right now the 379 Peterbuilts arent looking as sharp as they were catching all that wind.
Have you noticed their new addition model with the slanted cab and hood? They claim the Cat 15 which is only 475hp is getting 7.5 but the same engine in the 379 is trying to get 6. Lots of difference in money right there. The guy that said he screwed up bought a new 379 and is getting 5.
Volvo drivers are reporting 7.5 with the areodynamic design. They look like a Volkswagon to me in the front. An old one I mean.
Tim
Edited 3/29/2006 10:06 pm by Mooney
I was looking at doing a bus conversion for a while.
From what I could tell, the 4 stroke computer controlled engines and the paired computer controlled transmissions are making a huge difference in mileage on the newer trucks and buses. I've seen 11-12 mpg quoted for some inter-city (highway) buses. I'm not sure that I believe that number though... probably downhill heading east with a good tailwind when those numbers were measured.
Older buses with the 2 stroke (turbo or supercharged) engines AND gearing to cruise at 15-1600 rpm have been reported to get up to 9 mpg. The standard numbers for most buses though is from 6-8 mpg tending towards 6.
This is after the engine driven air conditioner is removed and being reasonable with the loaded vehicle weight.
The standard bus air conditioner draws 60 horsepower!
Take a 5,000# pickup at 200# per HP and you've got a 25HP engine
Mate that up w/ an 18 or 21 speed tranny, and away we go.
Read somewhere that the sleeker, newer, air-dammed, trucks get 3.5 mpg.
But that could be on an incline, with the wind at their backs??????
The trouble is the weight, frontal area and drag cross-section of the pickup truck. Add to that the fact that you need to drag around a couple of hundred horsepower worth of engine to generate what amounts to a continuous average demand of less than 50 horsepower, just in order to get that couple hundred horsepower when you NEED it. And each time you put your brakes on, all that mechanical energy goes to heat. Combined, these factors make it surprising that a pickup truck gets anything approximating good fuel economy.
Going hybrid will allow you to carry a smaller powerplant around with you and run it more efficiently more of the time. The battery/inverter/electric motor will provide you with the peak horsepower and torque you need, when you need it. Plus you'll get some of the energy back when you brake rather than NONE of that energy. Hybrids, designed properly (not those POS 20 hp glue-on systems which have been added just for the cachet of calling it a hybrid) will make a big dent in fuel efficiency. But if the POS is still heavy, boxy and high off the ground, it's still going to suck energy like a pig. Best not to drag any more weight and frontal area around with you than you really need.
But you pro fellas aren't creative enough with your vehicles! Pickup truck? LUXURY! Even a minivan would be luxury to this DIY! Hell, my Honda hatchback can (and does) haul an enormous amount of material if you're creative. I can fit an 8-foot stepladder in there and close the hatch. Four bolts takes the front seat out and voila- I can haul stacks of 16 footers in a pinch. Sheet goods go on the roof rack, which by the way stays off the vehicle until I need it so it doesn't suck power by screwing up the aerodynamics of the vehicle. Heavier than I can carry? Then chances are it's expensive enough that the local yard will throw in delivery for free PLUS off-load it where I want it with their forklift. And yes, I know how to bind a load- I'm not the dumb b@stard whose ladder was screwing up traffic on the highway! Great mileage, fun to drive, lots of power for the weight, and extremely low maintenance costs- rare that these little Honda 4-bangers don't go 10 years or 200,000 miles before you need to do more than change the timing belt.
The answer to that is simple. Diesel engine in an F150. If the F250 crew cab 4wd 7.3 diesel we had could get 22+ mpg, while crossing the scale empty at 8000 pounds, an F150 should push 30mpg.
Ford sells the F150 with a V6 powerstroke in other countries.
Now fuel that with biodiesel from waste vegetable oil, and get your fuel cost to under $1.00 per gallon, with lower emissions, and the smell of french fries everywhere you go.
Does biodiesel really work? Can I dump used McDonalds down into my tank?
blue
To answer your questions- yes, biodiesel does work. I've probably averaged 50% biodiesel in my tank over the last year, made by myself and a few others in my area.
But no, you can't dump Mcd's used fryer oil in your tank and drive off. To use straight oil, you need to do a pretty major conversion to your vehicle (say $2000), and then you probably still need to filter that used oil before it goes in the tank.
Also- I don't think a powerstroke in a F-150 would get much better milage. F-250s and F-350s get about the same milage. What would help more is a smaller engine and higher gear ratios. My truck turns 2000 at 60 mph, the milage is better at 1500 rpm.
zak
FWIW, I scale 9800lbs empty. Around 20000 with trailer.
and the $2500 is just parts. Double it for install labor. I have maybe 40K left before I swap rides.
Just gee whiz info, I have two cousins who are both engineers. One works for Ford, the other works for Dana, who supplies things to Ford. The story is always the same. We can make it 10% smaller, 20% lighter, and 30% stronger, but you can't afford it. Last thing Pete came up with had something to do with the hubs. Ford wouldnt take it but they're in the HMMWV now.
That kind of thing keeps technology moving. If theres no market at all, its awful hard to justify the R&D expenditures. If someone, anyone, latches on, you can continue to improve it. "Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
Also- I don't think a powerstroke in a F-150 would get much better milage. F-250s and F-350s get about the same milage. What would help more is a smaller engine and higher gear ratios. My truck turns 2000 at 60 mph, the milage is better at 1500 rpm.
Re-read my post, I was talking about the V6 powerstroke, which isn't available here in a light duty pickup, not the 6.0 V8 powerstroke in the current super dutys. We are in agreement, I think, smaller diesel, higher gearing, or more gears with double overdrive, would do alot for mileage.
Okay Guys, I planing on buying a 1/2tn replacement truck this year. What do you recomend, keeping the thoughts on this thread in mind.
no have to do some work.. nothing is free but its easy to make
if anyone wants more info heres where to start
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html
Tim
You are right, your mind is way to busy you need to find a project. Your spare time thoughts should be more along the lines of dealing with being trapped in an elevator for a week with Dolly Parton.
To touch on trucks though, my last 350 only made 575,000 miles. It was on it's second engine before the ac started to need big time repairs and I knew that the engine had to be coming to the end of it's life so I got a new one.
I've only had it 2 years and it has 75,000 miles. It weighs 7,850 empty according to the decal. I think I get just over 10 mpg. I'm one of those crazy sobs who thinks gas is priced are about the same as 40 years ago when adjusted for income and all. I remember nickle coke machines, 3 cent candy bars and 30 cent gas. Coke machines around here are now at least a dollar and candy bars are closing in on a buck. We can skip the 19 cent hamburgers of the 60's.
I worked for 2 bucks an hours before being drafted in 67 and getting that big Army pay of $89/mo.
So ease of on those worries of the world coming to an end and give Dolly a good chase around the desk. Never know might find some spring still left in those aching knees ;-)
We should be ashamed??
Well, maybe we should, but not for your reasons, LOL
You are comparing a highway hauler, loud, hard to drive, with a bazilion gears and a DIESEL engine designed to operate in a very narrow rpm range to a versatile, easy to drive, comfortable, GAS engined pickup truck costing a mere percentage!
NOT a relevant comparision!
They make diesel pickups. and they get 20mpg all day long no matter what they do! But it takes a special buyer, and they, gasp...cost more.
As for the tires, do you REALLY want a tire that goes 100,000 miles? 18 wheeler tires are rock hard, can't turn a corner and ride like a stone chariot wheel. Not what i want on my truck, thanks!
Apples to oranges here.
Nonetheless, we COULD do better, but it means giving up power seats, 4 wheel drive, anytime torque from a quiet gas engine, airbags, extended cabs, sound deadening, crush structures and so on.
Now, if you want the ultimate in efficiency and power, cleanliness and refinement, call Volkswagen and get the V10 TDI put into a pickup chassis. 20 plus MPG and 600 ft lbs of tq. Swwweeeet!
Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Now, if you want the ultimate in efficiency and power, cleanliness and refinement, call Volkswagen and get the V10 TDI put into a pickup chassis. 20 plus MPG and 600 ft lbs of tq. Swwweeeet!
Not so fast on that one.
I spent all day Monday sitting at the Ford/Mercury/Volkswagon dealership while waiting for them to figure out how to make my "CHeck Engine" light go out. Yeah, I know......................A piece of electrical tape.
Anyway, three of the VW mechanics were fighting over who HAD to fix the two Touaregs coming in the next day. None wanted to touch either of them. Two offered to take the day off rather than touch a Touareg and one said he would quite rather than pi$$ away a day trying to fix a V10 TDI. I almost believed him too.
We had looked at a Toureg at the same dealership but ended up buying an Explorer. VW service manager tells me it was a far better choice ( No, I was getting my Ranger fixed,not the Explorer. It's been trouble free.).
IF you look, it looks like the V10 is gone from the line up for the time being also. No mention of it on Edmunds or the VW website.
The "sweet range" on my two different generation CRX are both the same... 80 MPH, where it starts getting close to 40MPG.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Effectively the internal combustion engine has remained unchanged for a real long time. Sure we went from carbs to fuel injection, but the only thing other than the friction (heat) generating beasts that we drive now was Mazda's Wenkel rotor engine. Other than that, same pistons, same heat... I read somewhere that 3/4 of every gallon of gas is lost to heat (friction) Is it possible for vehicles to go further with less energy.
Yes
Has there been an incentive
No
I have hopes for more and more small motor big battery pack hybrids, but I am not giving up my little toyota yet.
Jeff
And then I find this as my computer is having all sorts of issues
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12063888/
wow. so we will have epa estimates by 2011... what a mess
My biggest complaint/question is where are the small (3-4.5L) diesels?
I don't haul a 15,000 lb trailer around all day but I do hook up an 7,500 - 10,000 lb trailer a couple of times a month. A small torquey(sp?) diesel in a fullsize everyday truck would be great.
With the right gearing I would expect a 25+ mpg around town and a good tow/load rating. Am I way off base?
I think the Big 3 got carried away with the HP war's and the big diesel's and forgot about making "work" trucks.
Garett
The smaller diesels are a victim of poor quality diesel and more stringent epa regs. I'm all for clean air, but something is wrong here- in California and I think 8 other states, it is not possible to buy a new diesel less than 8000 gvwr. so no VWs or any other small diesel car or truck. The trucks that you and I would like are selling like hotcakes in other countries, including central and south america.zak
"My biggest complaint/question is where are the small (3-4.5L) diesels? "
Europe.
Why?
A few reasons.
We Americans LIKE BIG! We are a nation that, as a whole, loves to have more, or faster, or bigger than the next guy.
And if we think we might see snow twice or three times a year, we buy 4 wheel drive! And we don't think for a second about dragging around 400 pounds of useless mechanicals, and the price that costs in fuel consumption.
Secondly, our incentives are much different than in Europe. There, diesel is cheaper, goes further and the tax structure "helps" you decide to buy a diesel. I think nearly half the vehicles sold in europe are diesel.
We don't like the clatter, we want our cars and trucks to leap off the line whenever we want. Heck, even powerful cars that have the power up in the rev range and require shifting are unpopular here. Americans ask, "Why should I have to work at going fast? I want to just step on it."
So the V8 is king, and along with it, the mostly unused reserves.
And remember, diesel is more expensive here than most grades of unleaded! Why is that? It's not because t costs more to refine it, is it? And it's not like there isn't demand for it, MILLIONS of gallons are sold to the trucking industry...
Were are the small diesels? Over in Europe, and they're great.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
diesel is more expensive here than most grades of unleaded! Why is that? It's not because t costs more to refine it, is it?
I used to work in a refinery (now I'm sounding like the guy Boss Hog interviewed who had so many jobs in too little time!) and we made diesel by filling a tank with equal amounts of kerosine and I think it was number 6 fuel oil, then bubbling air through it ("air rolling") to mix it. Can't believe that's more expensive than gasoline. For one thing, the two components of diesel come right off the streams (the output of the distillation towers) whereas gasoline come from heavy gas which is produced by cracking (using a catalyst) and then gasoline has all sorts of additivies to prevent knocking (increase the octane), to color it and so on. (We used to lead it, that tells you how long ago I worked in a refinery!)
charge all you can.....
can we spell greed...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
The BMW and Audi Diesels rock. Fast and comfortable.
NOt the same for the rest of them.
I think all the guys here who would love to see small diesels in the U.S. would probably see it differently if they had to sit in Traffic everyday surrounded by VW Polo and Opel Kaddet Diesels.
All I can think of when people talk about small diesel cars is being bogged down behind a string of OPel, VW, SEAT, Lancia and Alfa Diesels all trying to climb over the mountain and down the other side into Sarajevo.
Talk about a Recipe for road rage in this country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
something I came across.........
Six Stroke Engine
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
The new diesel-powered Audi A10 just won the 12 hours of Sebring and Peugeot has a racing diesel for next year.
Do you think diesel-powered sports cars could get Americans interested?DCS Inc.
"Whaddya mean I hurt your feelings, I didn't know you had any feelings." Dave Mustaine
earl,
In Europe, lots of big sedans are diesel powered. Puegot, Audi, Mercedes Benz, BMW, ALfa and a bunch of others.
I think most american drivers would be surprised to see just how refined, fast and easy to drive they are. They have awsome fuel economy too.
Most people wouldn't even be able to tell they were diesel until they pulled up to the pump.
Here stateside that could cost you enough that the diesel just doesn't make any sense at all.
I put Ultra 94 in the Harley Yesterday and it was $2.75 a gallon. Diesel at the same place was about $3.10 a gallon.
What some people should be asking, and I'm sure someone here can answer is: Why is it that you can get off-road Diesel for about half of the cost of DIesel at the pump? Is it just the Sulfer Content and the TAX or is there more to it?
Plus, There is an approaching storm front on the diesel horizen. Most diesels currently on sale in the U.S. won't meet the new emissions standards that kick in next year or the year after.
As to will people come to accept them as sports cars or sporty cars? Drive an M-B or BMW diesel and see what you think. I think they could catch on if the conditions ( Lower fuel costs/ making the public forget the Oldsmobile or VW Rabbit diesels of the past).
"What some people should be asking, and I'm sure someone here can answer is: Why is it that you can get off-road Diesel for about half of the cost of DIesel at the pump? Is it just the Sulfer Content and the TAX or is there more to it?"I've had a similar question for a long time.I remember when regular gas was 25 cents a gal, diesel was 17 cents a gal.now it is more than hi-test.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
"Why is it that you can get off-road Diesel for about half of the cost of DIesel at the pump?"
My understanding is that off-road diesel is for farming. Since the taxes in gas are for roads (theoretically) and farm equipment doesn't use roads (primarily) they allow farmers to buy the non-taxed fuel.
I'm not sure if has ALL the taxes taken off, or just some of them.
Anyone who says that gratuitous sex is no substitute for gratuitous violence obviously hasn't had enough gratuitous sex. [Geoff Spear]
I don't know if this is still true, but you can request a rebate of road taxes if the fuel is used off road. Knew someone with a boat who would request the tax rebates for what he used on the boat.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
44/45 cents of that is taxes...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Fascinating stuff. I hope he can get it to work.
Q: What's the worst thing about being an atheist?
A: No one to talk to during orgasms.