Well, we don’t have a crane or a Lull, and our small framing gang will be either little weenies or old guys, so tell me . . .
Do we need a pair of Proctor wall jacks?
Well, we don’t have a crane or a Lull, and our small framing gang will be either little weenies or old guys, so tell me . . .
Do we need a pair of Proctor wall jacks?
Learn more about the benefits and compliance details for the DOE's new water heater energy-efficiency standards.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox
Fine Homebuilding
Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox
© 2024 Active Interest Media. All rights reserved.
Get home building tips, offers, and expert advice in your inbox
Become a member and get instant access to thousands of videos, how-tos, tool reviews, and design features.
Start Your Free TrialStart your subscription today and save up to 81%
SubscribeGet complete site access to expert advice, how-to videos, Code Check, and more, plus the print magazine.
Already a member? Log in
Replies
Gene,
I have framed a 'few' houses in the past with a crew of 3-5.
We do it the old fashioned Eastern style, we don't sheath the walls on the deck, we do it after the walls are erected, plumbed, and straightened. The sheathing thus also spans the rim joist, and I have always believed that this adds to strengthen the structure significantly.
With the advent of 2x6 framing the walls certainly became more difficult to manage.
We also do double top plates during layout on the platform. By paying careful attention, it is easily possible to break laps in the top plate so that a 45' wall can be raised in 3-15' sections, and then the top plates knitted back together.
That said, my answere is yes, get the jacks please. We used to do everything with shear manpower because it was available and it was MACHO! I'd trade that for safe and intelligent anyday.
I'm glad that this project has come back for you and I hope it progresses with a minnimum of difficulties for you and the owners. Good luck.
We really should get together sometime, I'm only 4-5 hrs away. I know we'll be up there sometime this year.
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
"The sheathing thus also spans the rim joist, and I have always believed that this adds to strengthen the structure significantly."
nice to see somebody still believes this is the strongest way to build......
Of course, you could do what I always did. (Learned it that way, and never changed...)Build the wall on the flat. Sheathe it, leaving the sheathing hanging over the end by as much as you would have let it down by... Raise the wall, and nail everything down exactly as you would have.That hanging tail bit of sheathing ends up in exactly the same place it would have...If it was a long wall, we would leave the small strip of sheathing off, across the top, so we'd have better gription for the lifting work. Then nail it on when we were finished.That was back in the days when we were still using our weenies to raise the walls. I think I'd heard of wall jacks, but had never gotten around to looking for some. Just did it the same old way...
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
This is something I've never really understood - Why build a long wall, then try to lift the whole thing at once? Seems to me it's easier and safer to build it in 12' or 16' sections. And then you don't need so many people and/or expensive wall jacks.
The Earth is full. Go home.
then why don't you build your trusses in sections ?
panelized houses come in sections as you describe.. but why would you slice and dice something that is destined to be one thing anyways ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
"then why don't you build your trusses in sections ?"
We aren't talking about trusses. That's a whole different bal game.
"but why would you slice and dice something that is destined to be one thing anyways ?"
So it's easier to handle. That's the whole point.
No, the world isn't about to end. However, if I'm wrong, I'll apologize afterwards.
Mike, your comparing apples to oranges.
The most important reason that trusses are valued is to eliminate internal bearing point, thus freeing up the interior for maximum flexibilty. If you break up the trusses in smaller components, you create internal bearing points, thus dimininshing their value.
Walls however, are nothing more than small sections laced together with lapped top plates. Structually, there normally isn't any reason to frame them in one long piece, instead of two smaller sections. Furthermore, if there is a compelling reason to build a long wall, the same structural integrity can be easily achieved by building in two smaller sections with a minimum of engineering effort.
I think you were just yanking Boss's chain with that post...eh?
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Boss,
It saves time in the long run to get it all done at once. Economies of Scale applies here, although the last macro economics class I took was about 4 years ago.
Around here we have increasing seismic standards and it is a lot easier to comply when the wall is on the ground and we can get it all at once. It is faster and easier on the body to shear nail when the wall is on the ground, it's easier to use a router on the window openings when the wall is down, windows are easier to hang and flash, paper is easier to install and layout for the next floor or ceiling is quicker. And it's nice that when the wall is lifted, it's all done and you can move on to the next
We just time it so that when we have guys come out to help, there is more than one wall to lift. 3 guys can lift a 50' wall with wall jacks pretty quickly. We do it all the time.
I've never dealt with seismic stuff, so I don't know what's involved in that. Seems to me that routing out window and door openings would be the same in smaller sections as it would in an entire wall. Same with installing windows and flashing them.I can see where installing tyvek might be easier on a long wall while it's laying down. But then you'd have a splice at every corner. So far, I haven't seen a valid reason for doing it this way other than it's just what you want to do. (Which is a valid reason)
To all you virgins, thanks for nothing.
Boss,
Honestly, I've done it both ways and it is faster to do it all on the ground. There is no question.
Boss isn't asking about sheathing on the deck vs. sheathing after raising. He's asking about sheathing and raising two or three short sections vs. sheathing and raising an entire long wall.
I picked up that. Once again I'm not very clear. That's my fault.
It's faster to do it all at once. It's more accurate to square one large section than small sections. It's not slower to lift one section than lift a bunch of them. Etc. etc.
There is no compelling reason to frame in such a way as to avoid using wall jacks for the reason of not using wall jacks. They just aren't slow at all. But that's me :-)
gene... truth is ... i've only raised 40' walls... but i wouldn't think 2x about the 56'..
i'd reinforce the top plate.. my raise points would be 15' from each end.. that leaves 26' in the middle... Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Gene - are you planning to side these walls before you stand them? If so, what type siding?
The length of the wall you raise really isn't an issue as much as the weight. 1,000 lbs/jack, wether you use Proctors or Qualcraft or Mac Hoist or American Wall Jack. They are all rated the same. Just weigh a few random sticks, sheets, windows, headers, pieces of siding then multiply it out to get an idea.
Pros who use jacks all the time know right away if they are overloading jacks, they lift easy, or they don't. For an inexperienced wall jacker I'd definately advise erring on the side of caution and using three jacks if you're not certain. But seriously, try to get a handle on what a section of wall weighs, it's not that hard to estimate.
Do you have a rental yard nearby? Out here we can rent Proctors for...I think I remember they were 40.00/day/pair when I rented a pair a few years ago to try them out. I know the Qual Craft type rent for 9.00/day/jack. Maybe it would make sense to rent 3 or 4 and try them out before spending 800 bones?
No siding, Jim, just studs, plates, sheathing, wrap, headers. No windows. 2x6 wall construction. 8/0 wall height. My friend Jack and I are going to see if just the two of us can frame up this whole house, walls, roof, and all. With the help of some crane time for the steel and trusses, and maybe these jacks for the walls, to increase efficiency.
We did a garage together a couple weeks ago, and handled 24 foot walls OK, but that was about our limit. And they were lighter. 2x4 framing, 24" O.C.
I looked at Proctor's specs, and the 16-foot jacks (the shortest) handle bigger loads than the taller ones . . . 1,000 pounds each.
The operating instructions say a wall should be pick-pointed at the 20-60-20 percent locations, for a twin jack lift. Thus 11-33-11 feet for a 55 foot wall, our longest.
Each jack would be bearing 27.5 lf of 8/0 wall, and I'll bet the weight will be less than the 1 kip capacity. I'll get some unit weights of lumber and ply to run some numbers.
Mike says to stiffen the top plate, which I suppose we could do with a couple 2x8x16s stitched to the top with duplex nails, one about centered over each jack.
My local rental yards don't have jacks, but I might see if I can talk Tom (my guy that owns the closest yard) into buying a couple, before I spring.
Checked with eBay, and someone in Colorado is selling a once-used pair, starting bid $495, says no shipping, must pick up. But hey, with skiing as poopy as it is here this winter, I could go out to Steamboat, come back with the jacks on the roof rack right next to the sticks . . . (dream on).
gene..... mine were wrapped in cardboard & shrinkwrap... two 10' packages.. yellow frt will pick them up in Colorado.. the seller would have minimum inconvenienceMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
You're right about ease of packing for shipment. I can take a 300 yard walk through the woods, and come out at my local UPS store, which probably packages a truckload of rustic furniture per week for shipment. Desks, couches, big dining tables. Mounted moose heads with antlers. You name it.
Even though called UPS store, they are a one-stop pack and ship center. Great resource. I'll make my daughter a white oak Morris chair over the next ten days, and ship it to her through that place. They'd do a pair of jacks without a hitch.
But this guy might be 25 miles up into San Juan River backcountry. Who knows. I'll give him a call tomorrow. He lists his phone number in the eBay item posting.
While there's all these experts around about lifting walls....
For my shop I'm putting up this summer, I'll be lifting a 50 x 10 wall; 2x6 construction, sheathed and several headers.....The floor of the shop will be slab on grade with radiant heat.
What is the best way to anchor the Proctors (or whatever other device my rental place happens to have....) since I'm not going to want to be shooting nails into the floor? I suppose I could pre-set some anchor bolts in the slab and drive them under later.....
Also, the gables will be about 20 feet at the peak (30 foot long walls) continuous rake to the peak. They'll have a 6x6 in them to support the center ridge beam (a 52 foot x 18 x 5 1/8 glulam.....
I'm thinking those will be sheathed and most of the siding (lap) applied and I'll just have the crane lift them since I'll have to have one for the gluelam anyhow... But I don't know how to attach the crane to the gable. Suggestions? --Ken
Ken - No need to punch any holes in your slab. Just lay sleepers across the slab, perpendicular to the walls you intend to raise. Run them end to end, abutting the stem wall, mudsill, whatever sits on top of the slab (this will keep sleepers from sliding lengthwise). Then fasten the base of your jacks to the sleepers just as if it were a wood deck. If you want, you can even diagonally brace those sleepers, but I've never felt the need to do that.
And that glulam? Three jacks, one man, 1 hour total set up and jack into position without breaking a sweat. I jacked a 5+1/8 x 18 x 23 foot into place by myself with a pair and laughed out loud how easy it was. This was on a remodel, too. Cut a hole in the wall just above the floorline and had the lumber truck raise his bed just enough to get the weight of one end of the beam through that hole and onto a short chunk of 3" ABS plastic pipe. Had several more rollers ready and as soon as the weight got on that first roller..."whoooooop"...there went that big arsed glulam, right into place. Shift it around a little with long bar and fulcrum , errect the posts, slip a pair of jacks under the beam and "presto chango" up goes the beam.
That photo I posted a few messages back was of my son jacking up a 5+1/8x12x20 something foot ridge beam alone (actually I was working the other jack but thought how great a shot of him that would be so I grabbed my camera while he rolled his eyes and gave me a hard time).
Just came back to say that I am by no means an expert, but I've jacked plenty of walls, beams, gables, and I've had back surgury. Sure wish I had been smarter when I was younger, but I wasn't. I won't even begin to try to recall all the times I hand lifted a beam one end at a time up a step ladder or horsed a wall up by hand just to expend some testosterone. Oh well, part of the package, I guess.
Edited 1/11/2005 10:54 am ET by jim blodgett
Thanks for the info. I was thinking something like sleepers. If I do that I'll have to frame and raise one wall at a time, because I want the wall on the opposite side laying flat on the slab before the lift. I guess that's trouble enough for a day or two!
I suspect I'll use a crane on the glulam because I don't have truck access to get it in place to use jacks, and I think it will weigh around 1500 pounds, so no one is going to be horsing it around anywhere.....and while I have a crane there I might as well lift up the gables, too....
--Ken
Consider this -
build with a double bottom plate. Fix the PY base plate in place first. Lay the sleepers across to fit tight between to attach the jacks to.Your concrete is not likely to be perfectly flat anyway. You can platform frame the wall on scrap two by shims and control that issue better, and have a way to reach in to start the jack grabbers
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Oh...I'm sure my flatwork will be as flat as a billiard table..... :-)
You'll have to work Billy Hard to get it that way, LOL
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Gene, I cannot think of any reason why you would insist on standing those upper walls in one piece. The only compelling reason why you'd want to stand them as one unit would be if you were to install the overhang system.
A coupla years ago, I had a great carpenter partner, Forest. We framed quite a few houses together, just the two of us. One of the houses that we framed a few times had a 45' wall...on the first floor and the second floor. The first floor was only sheathing and paper...no overhangs. We'd lay it out as one wall, build and sheath it, but we actually frame three separate sections. When we put the top plate on, we'd leave it unnailed on the overlapping section. When it was all done, we'd stand up the three sections, then finish nailing the lapped plate. We'd also have to get outside and nail and tape the lapped paper.
This process didn't take up but an additional five minutes.
When we did the upstairs, it had all lapped siding on it. Of course, we built and stood it up as one unit. We'd use two poles on it and it was a no brainer.
The point of the post is: just becaue you can, doesn't mean you should. We had a total of four wall jacks between us....but it just doesn't make anysense on walls that are just sheathing and paper.
This year, I framed a six unit towhouse. The back wall was straight (6 x 24') and the overhang was continuous. I put the six unitwalls up separate, hanging the frieze over and lapping the adjacent wall. I hung over and lap cut the frieze. I then pre-framed 16' soffits and staggered the fascia exactly 12" on each. Two of us then hung over, and installed the entire rear wall of overhang. It took about an hour to preframe, ten minutes to distribute, then about ten minutes per unit to install (the trusse weren't set yet). Thats a coupla hours for about a 150' overhang run.
Don't build big long walls unless you absolutely have to. Raising them is trickier than some are making it out to be.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
blue.... BSMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
blue.... BS
Mike, what is the meaning of that post?
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
the meaning is what i said... you were BS'g boss, gene & me..
there are many compelling reasons for building walls in one piece from corner to corner, especially if you are going to do "tilt-up"
there are some practical limits... maybe 60' but not neccesarily.. a lot would depend on wether or not you had enough jacks to do it safely.. or wether the wall could be conveniently split
if you are a homebuilder like boss.. doing it for himself.. he's welcome to build his walls in any fashion he's comfortable with.. probably he doesn't want to buy , and store a set of jacks just for one house.. that doesn't make building walls in 10' - 12' sections better.. it's just a decision based on his budget and manpower.
are you trying to tell me that building a gable end in sections is a good idea ? not
are you trying to tell me that building it stick by stick is a good idea ? not
are you trying to tell me that building it on a table and craneing it in place is a good idea... ok.. if you are set up that way ...
but MOST crews are not set up with cranes, yet , year after year, they still have to frame walls..it's a given that the best , and most efficient way for most of them is on the deck, and tilted up... the longer, the better...if you are doing sections.. what are you doing for ties ? are you butting stud to stud or are you lapping the plywood onto the next end stud ... if you're butting stud to stud.. then you're losing racking strength.. or losing insulation value..
if you're leaving a stud out to tie.. then someone has to go outside on the wall and tie
and .. if you are going to do tilt-up.. then jacks make more sense that big crews..
we frame with 3 ... on jobs that we would have used 6 on when i started out.. most of those guys have been replaced by better tools and equipment
so.. wether or not you are tilting up finished walls, with windows and cornice.. or just bare sheathed walls.. tilt-up is safer, faster & better.. and the longer the wall, the more you maximize the efficiencies
now.. isn't that what you meant ?
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
FWIW..... that's what I meant!!! Well said.
I especially like this part....
"we frame with 3 ... on jobs that we would have used 6 on when i started out.. most of those guys have been replaced by better tools and equipment"
There's so much truth in that statement. I'm currently a four man operation... just got rid on one guy and could get rid of another without having too much of an effect. Wall jacks and a lull make me a full scale outfit capable of most any residential size project. Without the machine and the jacks we'd need a much bigger crew (maybe 6?) or be starving in the winter time looking for smaller remodeling/addition type frames.
yeah, now comes the really hard part, figuring out at the end of the year if doing more work, with less help, makes you more money than doing less work with less help, or if it simply means more headaches, overhead...
Just closed the books on 2004. It's reckoning time again.
damn spoil sport.. my bean counter is handing me the slip as we speak...
looks like the usual exercise... moving money thru the checkbook.. hah, hah, hah..
only good thing is, the company may not be making much.. but that overpaid president of the corp. is doing alrightMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Yer right. I'm convinced that the right number for the type of jobs I do is either 3 or 4 guys (including me). I just can't decide which. Truth is....payroll seems to be one of the least expensive parts of the whole operation! Not really, but it seems like that sometimes. What I notice, is that when we have three guys I tend to do more of the stuff that I shouldn't need to do..... some of the stuff that the other guys can handle like knocking the walls together, or actually framing the roof.
When I have four guys, I'm free to roam more. I can just stay ahead of everyone laying out plates or joists, or I can just stay on the ground cutting the roof while they install the pieces, or I can frame the staircase while they are decking the floor above.... stuff like that.
I guess it's kind of a wash. I never seem to have a hard time keeping all four of us very busy. In fact the guys are finally starting to figure out that it's much better for them to keep busy on their own than it is to have me "suggest" something for them to do! LOL. I really don't think the fourth guy makes much more money for me than the third guy does. Not enough to really, really matter. But it does seem to make things operate smoother and let me do the things that I'm the fastest at compared to my other guys.
I spent New Year's Day totalling up reciepts and putting everything together for my accountant. I feel like I'm in great shape this year and am just waiting for the rest of the 1099's to come in. I do hate writing that check though..... talk about a reality check! No pun intended.
I keep myself floating too. Seems like you have to hire more help than you need because of days off for funerals, doctors apointments, hangovers, etc. So some days youend up with a spare leg. Other days, you end up hopping around chasing the dog to kick him while on only one leg.So I work double time when the crew is short and then do the fun jobs or planning when it is a full crew, and I am redundant. Also, I play strawboss for twenty minutes out of every week or two.;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That's very true. I had one of my guys come to me a couple weeks ago looking for a couple more dollars an hour. He was trying to explain to me that $XXX/ week just wasn't enough for him to get ahead with. I listened calmly to his bellyaching until he was finished.
Then I pulled out my log book. I showed him that for the previous six weeks he had only managed to get 40 hours once!! I also showed him that I somehow managed to average 48 hours per week..... onsite! This particular fellow never works Saturdays, which is something I make optional, and has more than his share of dentist appts, funerals, court appearances, etc. I then showed him that if he worked every available hour that the company offered in that given time period, he would be averaging $XXXX a week. (Notice the extra 'X'). I then also showed him in that six week period, there wasn't one week that everyone worked all available hours for the whole week, and other than this guy in particular, the other two guys are extremely good about keeping up appearances.
Some guys don't get this business. You HAVE got to show up when the work is there, cuz it's not always gonna be there, or the weather will show up, or......
Diesel, I found myself debating the merits of having four other crew members or only using three. And...I also found our experiences similar....when I had four chasing me, I only had time to layout, cut and do the hardest. Of course in those days, I was loathe to trust anyone to do any of the aforementioned activities.
I would say, if you can operate as profitably with the extra man, it's probably better to use him because most builders like seeing larger crews and theres less impact when someone is on vacation. Also, its always nice to have that extra hand, even if equipment is available.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I'm thinking I agree with you. That fourth guy doesn't actually cost me anything (other than the liability of another potential injury or something else drastic) and it does seem to just make things go smoother. The site stays cleaner and there always seems to be an extra set of hands around should I need help with a particular task. In addition the deck stays stocked and parts are always made before we get that part of the frame.
You are also dead on regarding the GC's wanting to see bodies. They really do get skeptical when they see the three man crew, even with a machine. I have to say that production is VERY close whether it's three or four men. You'd have to really pay close attention to see the difference on site. I can see it in the numbers and that's why I've been able to justify it.
> I have to say that production is VERY close whether it's three or four men. You'd have to really pay close attention to see the difference on site. I can see it in the numbers and that's why I've been able to justify it.
Another thing to think about: The fourth man means that there's one more guy feeding his family and learning the trade instead of drawing unemployment. If you give him a job when it's a wash whether you use 3 or 4, that's one more guy who'll be available to work when the next boom comes along and demand for skilled carpenters goes up.
I'm in a different business now, but we always try to carry as many people as we can possibly justify thru the lean times, so we'll have them when things get busy.
-- J.S.
AHHHHh Mike...a debate I can sink my teeth in!
the meaning is what i said... you were BS'g boss, gene & me..
No I'm not!
there are many compelling reasons for building walls in one piece from corner to corner, especially if you are going to do "tilt-up"
there are some practical limits... maybe 60' but not neccesarily.. a lot would depend on wether or not you had enough jacks to do it safely.. or wether the wall could be conveniently split
if you are a homebuilder like boss.. doing it for himself.. he's welcome to build his walls in any fashion he's comfortable with.. probably he doesn't want to buy , and store a set of jacks just for one house.. that doesn't make building walls in 10' - 12' sections better.. it's just a decision based on his budget and manpower.
If I were Boss, I wouldn't want to have those poles hanging around after I built one house...that's for sure. But....who is talking about building walls in 10' or 12' sections? Not I! I would suggest (the 56' wall) building them in 18' sections and one 20' section.
are you trying to tell me that building a gable end in sections is a good idea ? not
I might tell you that building a gable end in sections is a good idea. It all depends on what it is composed of. Most gables are in the 30 to 35' range. That means that the wall will be composed of a minimum of two top plates. If you tilt it up in two sections, and lap the double top plate 8' or so, you accomplish the same structural integrity as if you nailed the lapped plate while it was lying down.
are you trying to tell me that building it stick by stick is a good idea ? not
No, I am not trying to imply that.
are you trying to tell me that building it on a table and craneing it in place is a good idea... ok.. if you are set up that way ...
I'm not advocating any table building of the walls.
I will highly advocate the craning in of the trusses (which already was established). I also highly advocate the setting of the sheathed gable as part of the truss setting workday...after all the gable is just another style of truss. We always set the interior trusses first, then send in the sheathed gable. We do that because it's much easier to get the interior trusses braced in a way that we can safely anchor our gable in a permanent and solid way.
but MOST crews are not set up with cranes, yet , year after year, they still have to frame walls..it's a given that the best , and most efficient way for most of them is on the deck, and tilted up... the longer, the better...if you are doing sections.. what are you doing for ties ? are you butting stud to stud or are you lapping the plywood onto the next end stud ... if you're butting stud to stud.. then you're losing racking strength.. or losing insulation value..
This seems to be the crux of your argument....lack of structural integrity.
I would/have done both methods.....I've butted stud to stud and I've lapped the plwood onto the next end stud. Each way has it's advantages and disadvantages. I also base my decision on structural needs...which really have never been a factor in my decision...remember, I don't live in a seismic zone. I'm not going to lose anysleep over that losing insulation value either because if it's truly an issue, I'd lap the plywood onto the next end stud.
Incidently, all the panelized homes that I've toured use the "butted stud" technique. I suppose if racking strength was an issue, a couple of bolts would dramatically improve the resistance.
if you're leaving a stud out to tie.. then someone has to go outside on the wall and tie
Bingo! That is exactly what Forest and I used to do. Since we only split the lower level walls, we easily accomplished the final nailing while we were out there tightening up the paper. I figure it takes about one minute per seam to climb a 10' ladder and staple, then tape over the Tyvek. Of course, if it were the second story, you would have to add one extra minute...per seam!
and .. if you are going to do tilt-up.. then jacks make more sense that big crews..
I agree...jacks make a lot more sense than big crews...that's why I've used and owned wall jacks since the mid 70s! i bought my first pair used at a garage sale for $75 dollars...they had an interesting locking feature....the brake engaged if the speed of the withdrawl was anything faster than a hand cranking. I still don't understand the principle....
we frame with 3 ... on jobs that we would have used 6 on when i started out.. most of those guys have been replaced by better tools and equipment
That makes sense to me...I've been hooked on crews of 4 or less since the 80's.
so.. wether or not you are tilting up finished walls, with windows and cornice.. or just bare sheathed walls.. tilt-up is safer, faster & better.. and the longer the wall, the more you maximize the efficiencies
Ummmm no! In fact, my entire post warned that simply framing long walls for the sake of framing long walls was in fact more dangerous and often less efficient! Forest and I quite often found ways to effectively frame walls in separate components. We worked in subdivisions that often had similar houses being framed simultaneously...we often would marvel at how much time some guys would spend raising big...long...heavy walls with their 24' doubled 2x6 wall jacks, while we would smartly and efficently create sensible breaks in walls that might not be obvious to a guy hell bent on building everything in one piece...like I say..just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
I will agree that each and every wall has an optimum framing sequence and it is probably wise to analyze every wall on it's own merits and decide which techniques will result in the most efficiency, highest level of safety and strongest finished product. Of course, we all understand that often, choosing one of those elements diminshes the other and sometimes it's simply a judgment call that could go either way. Regards, Blue
now.. isn't that what you meant ?
Mike Smith Rhode Island
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
hah, hah, hah... this is right up there with the "dropped hip" / "no dropped hip " thread
you say frappe.... i say cabinetMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks for clearing that up. I was misreading your messages.
Boss, I agree...I wonder myself at some of the things I see go up.
On of the primary reasons that we build long walls is because we install all the overhangs on them before we raise them. But even then, there is a practical limit. I know I can frame walls 100 long, but I wouldn't.
All too often, I see crews build long, tall, heavy walls that don't have any compelling reason to build them so big...but they do, just because they can. They get caught up in the "build it as one unit" mentality and they never re-evaluate the reasons that they started building in that manner in the first place.
I'm one of those guys that don't like big heavy things and I look for every conceivable way to put things up in easy manageable sections. If I can work with smaller components with no appreciable loss of efficiency, I'm ecstatic.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
In answer to your question... Yes. I've been framing a house this last couple of weeks with just a 2-man crew, and we've used the heck out of our wall jacks. Mine are not proctor, I made them myself out of 2x6s heavy duty hinges and boat winches & pulleys. They work fine, but I would certainly recommend the real thing if you can afford it.
The only problem we had was one incident when we were lifting a relatively small wall and decided to only use one jack. We were both wrestling with the jack, one of us cranking the winch and one of us holding the jack still, we had the wall about two feet off the floor, which is pretty much the point at which most of the actual hard work occurs. Anyway, there we were basically hugging each other, "reeling" that winch, when I suddenly spouted out " ARRRR We're gonna need a bigger boat!" in my best captain Quinn impression. I imagine it would have been quite a pathetic sight to see two grown men fall into fits of giggling like a couple of school girls.
too bad you could not use a warn winch on front of truck
Proctors are nice, but my pair of Qual-Craft jacks, which climb 2x4s as a pump jack does, cost only $130 each. I've also used them for raising loads straight up, for example, raising two 1/2 in. x 11 in. by 18 ft. flitch plates to the second floor.
Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
As a one-man show, I couldn't lift walls like this without my Proctors. I had considered the ones that ride up a 2X4, but think these are safer. Also, you don't have to follow them up the ladder like the Qualcraft.
gene.. i've used proctors since '75.. they keep the walls and gable ends totally under control..
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, the longest mainfloor wall we've got is 45 feet, and the upper floor is one long piano key, with two 56-footers.
No gables, the walls are all 8/1, except for a few at 9/4, but they are short runs.
Think a pair of Proctors will raise our 56-footers?
Gene,
I'm gonna jump in if you and Mike don't mind..............
Why would you not want to raise this wall in sections? Like I said in a previous post, I've only raised unsheathed walls, fully constucted with all the headers (no jacks yet) and two top plates.
By offsettig the joints of the top plates in stategic locations, it is possible for me to break up your 56' wall into three managable sections.
I can't imagine why any other method of constucting these walls would not allow you to pretty much do the same thing.
And I can't see two jacks lifting that wall. It's gonna break into three parts!
Look for Diesel here too. he's a good guy, and does alot of framing.
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Mike,
We've lifted 50' walls (8' and sometimes 9') with the pump jack style wall jacks. 3 Jacks spaced roughly equal distances. It was no problem at all. I would think your Proctors would handle that no problem as long as they are designed to lift that height wall.
I've heard of guys lifting 70' walls 8' tall with all the windows installed and clapboard (cedar I think) siding installed with 2 jacks. I think it was our old siding sub. Of course that was in the old days when men were men. :-)
Don't tell anyone, but I raised a 68' 2x4 wall framed and sheathed today with a pair of Proctors.... that's pushing it, but the poles weren't bending so I let it rip. Two guys on each end help the corners up though along with the jacks.... not much grunting and groaning, just helping it along while the jacks did the real work.
I'll be raising the front 68' wall tomorrow.... I try to remember to take some pictures.
Seems to me it would be safe enough, if you tacked in a series of several lengths of temp support 2x's, that would swing down, and be there to support the wall in case a jack let loose.Each length of support would swing done as it's end cleared the floor, as the wall is raised.That's how I did my wall out here... Without a wall jack. All by myself. But then it was only ten foot long, 12 high, and 2x6 with sheathing, paper, etc....Worked like a dog to get it high enough for the next set of supports to swing down, then rested. Did it again for the next longer set of supports. Etc...
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
That's certainly a good system too Luka. When framing everyday though.... as a business..... we really strive to find that balance between safety and efficiency. There's always more you could do to make things safer, but most have a price. The good thing about the Proctors, if used appropriately, nobody is ever in the line of fire as the actual jack part that is pumped is always behind the top plate line. Should something go wrong, the wall will fall at your feet. Good ideas though.
I meant that you should use the different length props as backup.Use the jacks. Most definately. I wouldn't be without them if I were building now.Just think that the props would add a bit of extra safety.
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
we had pipe bent at the weilding shop for the pump handles, so we dont have to go up a ladder unless wall is over 9' high
Isamemon, what do you do on the 20' walls?
I used a wall jack called MacHoists. They required a t style wood pole that we could build to any length. I knew one guy that used 24' 2x6 poles....I would need a wall jack to lift the wall jack.
One reason that I liked them was because I could cut the poles to any length. We/I raised some pretty serious stuff with those poles, but I couldn't imagine trusting too much weight to a single member. On some walls that I raised, we needed four wall jacks and I still had the adreniline flowing.
Sometimes,especially when porches are built on the wall, using the wall jacks are actually a better choice than using a crane. By correctly sizing the pole, it acts as a lift with the top heavy wall is raising, and acts as a hold back as the wall is lowered into place.
I've used a proctor once. They were indeed sturdy but I've heard of them bending under an overload. They are harder to store too....our little machoists can be put into a duffle bag. Basically, they are a welded up strap arrangement with a boat'style winch bolted on. I gave two sets away a couple of years ago and gave Ben my last set this past year.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
havent had to build a wall 20 feet high yet so I cant answer that question.
Have a wall now that is 16 feet high, built it in sections, unsheeted, and stood it up by hand
if I had to go 20 feet high and say 20' long, id call a crane in
neever used procotrs, we own 3 qual craft
Edited 1/11/2005 12:57 am ET by Isamemon
Nice thinking!Les Barrett Quality Construction
Gene.... get the jacks. Even if it's just for one job and you turn around and unload them. They still get top dollar used. You will thank us.... and in turn, your crew will thank you, your wife will thank you, and your testicles will thank you. I use mine all the time.... even on walls we used to look at as "no problem" for a man lift.
Once you get good at setting them up, it takes maybe 3 minutes per jack and next thing you know, two men are raising a 40' wall framed with 2X6 studs, 2X10 headers and fully sheathed..... safely! Best part about 'em may be that nobody ever has to stand in "the line of fire" while raising some of these beasts. A fantastic investment. I've got the Proctors and while they are expensive, I love the heck out of 'em.
"and your testicles will thank you. I use mine all the time.... "That is a direct quote and you have got be bustin up laughing. Funniest thing I've heard in a long time!!! :-)
I really oughta start proof-reading some of the crap that comes out of my mouth (fingers)!!!!
I see I'm not alone in my observation
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I think Proctors are great, if a bit cumbersome. They might even be worth the money for full time framers.
But I'd feel perfectly comfortable raising anything with these as I would with Proctors. Rated for the same 1,000lbs/jack, a lot easier to store and transport, and at 65.00/jack, leave plenty in the old tool allowance for other necesseties.
shoot, hit "post" instead of "attach files". Must be the old age thing.
Forgot to mention how handy these jacks are for lifting beams alone - like this 5x12x22' glulam.
Hmmmmm..... where've I seen that house before? :)
Jim,What kind of jacks are these?
American Wall Jacks. Bought them at my local lumber yard a few years ago for 60.00, or maybe it was 65.00 each.
I have always liked the portability of the cast iron jacks like the ones Qual Craft sells (there are many foundry's who have made them through the years) but the thing I liked about these when I saw them was they are made of steel, not cast iron, which can snap when overloaded (same reason you can't rely on drywall screws). Steel will stretch, bend and distort when overloaded, which just seems safer to me, especially for a tool like this.
They are just about the same guage steel as the scaffold jacks (although I realize some parts of scaffold jacks are drop forged, too).
"and your testicles will thank you. I use mine all the time...."Should I say it?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
One word of caution! Keep an eye oepn for overhead power lines dropping in near the path of ascent when handling these metal poles around the site
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
All right..... I don't get to use 'em as much as the good old days! But I'll never use 'em again if you guys don't stop bustin' them! LOL.
Along the same lines as your reply to the post..... I gotta wonder if $800 will still seem like a lot of money if he's got his own roof torn off to add that level..... and blows his back out standing the first gable!
How much do a pair or proctors go for? I don't do a lot of framing but I am about to add a 1200 sq ft second floor to my house and I am going to frame it with a friend. I was thinking of saving my back (and tesicles) and buying a set of proctors. Can't find a price on the web though. Do you know? thanks.
OUCH!!!! just found the price...almost $800. Are my testicles worth that much?
OUCH!!!! just found the price...almost $800. Are my testicles worth that much
How could we possibly determine their value without examining them.
Post a picture and we'll help you figure things out.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
OH good lord Blue!!
Don't know about your testicles, but what is the cost to you of one week laid up in bed with back pain, plus medications?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Well, if you have been using your weenie to raise walls with, I'd say they were worth that much, yes...
The person you offend today, may have been your best friend tomorrow
couple of diff's between the ones jim and andy are using.. no positive stop ( pre-set).. so the Procotrs will stop the wall and hold it when the wall gets to plumb
also.. the ratchet is a come-a-long welded to the Proctor.... os it's poritive up ... and positive down
also... Proctors come in 16' & 20'....... surprising how often you wish you had the 20's
next ... Proctors get bought and sold on this site all the time.. or check ebay
i bought a set here last year (16') for $500.... plus a couple hundred for yellow freight if i rememberrMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I've got the 20's and wish I had the 24's !!! Seriously.
'Course I also have a 12' trailer and wish I had a 16'.....
and I've got a service body truck, but wish it had a cap....
and on and on and on.......
you makin fun of me , willis ?
ready for next weekend ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Next weekend? You talking about the game or the closing? Either way, I'm good and ready for both!
both .... good luck to you .. and good luck to usMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
you guys playing some sort of ball game?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
reminds me of a time ...
maybe 4 years ago ....
me and my buddy Joe get sent over to another guys site ...
they need help framing and raising their long wall ....
not really a long wall as it turns out .. just top heavy ....
guessing somewhere around 20' long .... all header all the way .... lotsa windows in that addition ....
somehow "they" end up not being around right as we finished banging it together ...
so Joe decides we can't wait ... gotta get back to his site ...
so ... we go over and test lift.
damn, that was heavy ...
I have the idea of having some horses right behind us ... just in case.
so we lift .... and both decide hooking the horses with our feet and dragging them forward isn't such a bad idea ...
right at the point of getting her up ... he asks ... "U even lifting?"
funny thing ... I was wondering the same thing about him!
so now ... we got the wall leaned up a bit ... resting on the horses ...
OK ... stretch ... deep breath .... get mad ... and lift ...
as we're struggling not yet even to chest height ...
Joe wheezes out ... turning purple ... "U ever build a wall U couldn't lift?...."
I start laughing ... we almost die as we set it back on the horses ....
stretch a coupla more times ...
get more mad ... this time turn past purple and get it up ...
the wall was 2x6 with 3 2x12's packed in as the header ...
we built the other walls with just one 2x12 ... packed in the rest of them after she was standing.
I'll never forget that ... "U ever build a wall U couldn't lift ....."
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Let me remind you of one where I got reminded why the proctors are important.I had a sixteen foot wall that was only 7'2" tall so i figured i could get by without running home for the jacks. I got it up to that 'get mad and puff' spot about armpit high, did the squat and gaver'ell. Even though it went up, as i did the mighty push, I felt something pop in my lower back and a feeling like warm wet down the back of one leg. I could barely walk for the next three weeks because I had squeezed the fluid out of one of my back sacs between the vertebre and it aggravated the sciatic nerve. Just from the direct pressure.I've lost count now how many times I've blown discs out, so i slow down and work smarter.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Gene,
I've done 44' of 2x6x10' with lots of headers,sheathed, with 2 proctors. Recently, I lifted 2- 40' 2x6x9' for my new shop, fully framed and sheathed, by myself with them. These were ontop of a 2' concrete stem wall. Would have had to frame them in 10' sections to lift by myself, by hand. Then tie the sections together.
One thing I always do when lifting walls with the jacks, is use metal strapping to hold the bottom plates in place. I usually toenail to a line, the add the stapping. It is much safer than relying on the toe nails. And ,I usually lap my plywood down onto the floor, or foundation. So stop blocks outside the wall would be in the way.
I did 26' of 2x8x8' treated foundation wall once, with one jack. Studs at 12" oc, and 3/4 trt. plywood sheathing. That semmed to be about the limit of the one jack.
I build homes, mostly as a one man crew. Without the jacks, I'd never get any thing done. With them, I don't find much need for other help. And I'm not exactly a youngster.
Good luck,
Brudoggie
I'm curious...
I find it really difficult to set up my proctors by myself. I usually need a guy to hold the jack straight up while I nail off the bottom. Could you describe the sequence you use setting these up alone? Are you using 16' ers? I've got 20's and they really require some steadying until everything is nailed off and tensioned.
Diesel, some jacks can lay backwards. That in itself would make it a one man job.
The Mac Hoists I used would not and consequently they were a chore to stand up alone unless I was using the shortest length possible which was 11' 6" for an 8' wall (I think).
One of the reasons that I preferred the mac hoists was because of this flexibility to reduce the length of the poles and make it a one man operation.
I have framed several houses alone and I do remember standing up the 16' versions alone. If memory serves me correctly, here is what I did: I anchored the cable to the wall first, before I stood the pole up. Then, I let out enough cable to stand the pole up....by walking to the tip and standing it up while the bottom pushed against an unmovable object. After the contraption was standing, I'd position it in its final resting place and crank it up til there was slight tension. By slightly leaning the pole backwards, I would be able to lean over and nail the bottom.
I have had the poles topple during this process, alone or with help...but it was usually because I did something stupid...like walk away before nailing the bottom down...luckily the poles always fell forward and no one ever got hurt.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Diesel,
I've got the 16' r's. Don't get much call for walls over 10'6". I'm one of the few here that push customers for 9 or 10'. I usually pull out the cable, before standing up the jack. Then stand the jack,and bump to the top plate. Once it's plumb, I step on the base, and start a nail with one hand, while steadying with the other. Once I get a couple nails in, it is usually pretty steady. I try to place the jacks, so they can be nailed into a joist, if possible. Once the base is nailed, I attach the cable and snug up the jack. Then proceed to the next one if needed.I used to use some homemade jacks that were very tippy. Some times I'd attach guy ropes to hold them until they were tensioned. An extra set of hands would be nice, but I've had it with employees for awhile. Got a couple of other small builders that I hire if I need. Handy when stick framing roofs. They come in for a few days, and take off when the felt is on. We all have known each other for 20-25 years. Works out pretty well.Glad I'm not framing anything right now. We are supposed to have high temps of 0 for the next few days. Got to love winter!Take it easy! Brudoggie
Thanks Bru... sounds do-able enough. Framing alone, huh? Sounds.... therapeutic. If I thought I could find enough projects of that size I'd do it in a heartbeat. Problem is most of the work around here bottoms out around 2500 sqft and the builders want to see bodies, bodies, bodies. The other option is addition type frames. I'm finding that most GC's aren't willing to pay what it really costs for me to do that type of work... they all want new work prices on remo work.... doesn't compute. My time is much more lucrative spent on new work here.
I use screws at the base plate. I can stick the structural screw into the magnetic head holder. stand bent over with my hand steading the pole about five feet up and kit the screw holes in the floor with the drll/screw gun in the other hand.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Brudoggie, that 26' treated wall sounds like one heavy bugger!
Many years ago, I "invented" a really safe way to prevent a serious mishap regarding the raising of walls with the wall jacks. Like you, I too have always used metal straps to anchor the bottom plate down. In most cases, I use metal brick ties...I find them easy to store, and very handy to install.
The trick I developed was needed on a stem wall just as you described. The stem wall that I was forced to build on was about 4 course of 4'' block high and the garage wasn't backfilled. At that time, I probably was building about a 10 wall with a gable on top and in those days, I always built the gable and wall as one piece...even though it was a 12/12 roof.
Anyways, as I was thinking about this monster and remembering how many 4'' blocks that had kicked out, I knew that I was about to embark on a truly dangerous mission and it forced me to re-think our bottom anchoring strategy. Here is what we did.
First, I ran a sill plate around the entire garage perimeter. Then, before I started laying the walls out, I cut two pockets out of the sill plate at the exact location that I was going to install the jacks. I make the pockets wide enough to slip in some perpindicular "sleepers...I think i used 2x6's. Anyways, I hung the sleepers out a little bit past the foundation wall and made them long enoug to reach beyond the total height of the fully framed gable wall. I then proceeded to frame the wall and used the metal strap techniques to tie the wall to the sleepers.
When I was ready to stand the wall up, I placed the wall jacks directly on the sleepers and cribbed them up solid. I nailed the wall jacks to the sleepers and proceeded to crank the wall up. When you analyze the dynamix, you'll understand that the wall jack was pulling the sleeper backwards but the wall was anchored quite solidly to that sleeper which neutralized the pull....basically it had to tear the sleeper apart before anything could give! And...all the weight was directed in a downward direction, not in a vertical pushing against the foundation.
I used some version of sleepers for the next twenty years before I went and bought a boom truck.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Blue,I usually run planks back to the opposite stem wall, and put the jacks on them. That way the can't kick. Just have to watch that they don't lift up when the wall tops out. I use the strapping from the lumber units. Always lots of that around. A crane would be nice, but pretty hard to justify for the projects that I do. Brudoggie
Edited 1/13/2005 6:33 pm ET by BRUDOGGIE
I usually run planks back to the opposite stem wall, and put the jacks on them
Brudoggie, that's how I was taught to set them up too. There is a significant problem however on 4" block stemwalls, which are most often used around here: they tend to tip over from the horizontal pressure when the wall reaches about 45 degrees. That occasionally used to happen, even though we would spend considerable time constructing "kickers" to hold in the bottom.
On smaller tall walls, I used to eliminate the sill plate and simply run the sleepers anyways. This would effectively stand the wall up and I'd have these two sleepers stuck under them and the entire wall would be up in the air 1.5". I'd then lever one end up and yank the sleepers, then do the other side.
I never had any block topple after I started using this system. Before that, I had a couple of dangerous moments when one side of the wall would kick over the blocks and the other held on, thus putting a weird sideways tilt to the poles....which isn't good.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
More and more, that steel strap is now plastic bandiong.Even the crap waste stuff is getting to be crap! Sheesh!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Good idea with the screws..... almost a "no brainer"..... what's that say about me?
I hear you regarding the lumber yards "junk" getting even junkier! We're seeing more and more plastic bands and dang it, those steel straps are awful handy. Even the "clubs" that come banded with the lumber to allows the forklifts access are getting smaller and smaller. They make 'em just big enough for a Moffet to slip it's forks under, but my Lull just shoves the pile. We have to just pick the pile up a hair with the tips of the forks and shove more substantial stock underneath. Lately I'm even seeing triple stacks of cut drywall used as clubs. Set one of those down in a mud puddle for awhile and then try to get under it!
Oh well..... all in the name of progress, right?!?!
regional dialect:
Mass. clubs
NY stickers
Use to be fat and oak to beat. Cut up in slmall chunks, they would make for a nice Fri. afternnon jobsite bbq.
d'you bring the weenies?
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
"regional dialect:
Mass. clubs
NY stickers"
WA - dunnage
jim..i think "dunnage & clubs" are interchangeable..they both allow fork lift access
"stickers" to me is a term for smaller sized sticks used to air dry things ..like air drying lumber or...... when we gang paint a lot of trim and "sticker it" to dry in a stackMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
What ever happened to "CHOCKS"..? That's what they are.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Watch out for the edges, it's really fast out there...
chocks are to keep the wheels from rolling
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That too..acoording to google definitions.."blocks of wood to support a ship or weights"..I worked in sawmills and pallet plants and AROUND here..they are referred to as chocks. Yard chocks if they hold bunks in the yard.I forgot the smiley face for my post to Mike..again, "around here"..{G}
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Watch out for the edges, it's really fast out there...
duane... "chocks " huh ?
me & piffen must be olde school..
"hey!.. chock that wheel before you unhook !"
also.. the cribbing in shipyards ain't it all "cribbing" until you get to the last wedge shaped piece.. and then it becomes a "chock" and you set it with a sledge..
when it's time to let it down the railway and back into the water... you knock the "chocks " loose and down she goes
not too late ,duane...you can still get a bet down on the colts against the pats today
heh, heh, hehMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike I see you are from RI. Do you know if Quaker Lane Tool carries the jacks that Jim Blodgett has in his picture? Who makkes them anyway?
i've never seen the ones that jim uses at QL..
i've seen something similar to jim's at HD...
here's what jim said...
<<<
American Wall Jacks. Bought them at my local lumber yard a few years ago for 60.00, or maybe it was 65.00 each.
I have always liked the portability of the cast iron jacks like the ones Qual Craft sells (there are many foundry's who have made them through the years) but the thing I liked about these when I saw them was they are made of steel, not cast iron, which can snap when overloaded (same reason you can't rely on drywall screws). Steel will stretch, bend and distort when overloaded, which just seems safer to me, especially for a tool like this. >>>
i think the ones i've seen were the Qual Craft
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 1/16/2005 3:27 pm ET by Mike Smith
it IS too late..I spent all my pin money on warming the house up..no bettin for me.Any who..here ya go Web Images GroupsNew! News Froogle more »
Advanced Search
Preferences
Web Definitions of chocks on the Web:rock protection that is wedged into cracks by hand. Nuts is a synonym.
http://www.climber.org/Resource/glossary.htmlround or oval holes in a vessel’s bulwark, sometimes fitted with rollers, through which hawsers and ropes are passed; also blocks of wood for supporting boats, weights, and so on.
myweb.tiscali.co.uk/montecarlo/marinecrew/gloss.htmWooden, plastic, or metal blocks constructed to fit the curvature of a tire; placed against the tire to prevent apparatus rolling.
http://www.raytownfire.com/fire_dictionary.htmcheck out the second part of the second definition..I cant highlite with this browser...
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Watch out for the edges, it's really fast out there...
Ya, If it is something that CAN move and you are chocking it against movement, like the wheels or ship sliding down the ramp, then it is a chock block, buy just a shim to hold it up is cribbing or dunnagebut this is sure 'nuff a regioanl thing. If i were living next door to Shere, I'm sure i'd be speaking his lingo instead of yours
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
deisel, Still get steel here. One of the perks of living in the backwoods. We're way behind the times.When they send those drywall stickers, I make them take them back. Always keep some wood ones around. I hate cleaning up that mess, after they get soggy. I don't have to worry about getting forks under them. We move everything by hand. Yeah, I know it's inefficient, but I'm not doing production work. Brudoggie