Can it be done? The base of the mast on my small sailboat has a cast aluminum foot. DW was helping me take it down last week and it got away from her, torqued the base sideways and popped off an ear.
“Put your creed in your deed.” Emerson
“When asked if you can do something, tell’em “Why certainly I can”, then get busy and find a way to do it.” T. Roosevelt
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Heli-arc is the best that I know of. There is a solder like product that uses just a propane torch and a flux, I got some and fixed a lawnmower with it. Worked amazingly well, but can't recall the name of it. It comes in sticks like pipe cleaners, and is zinc I think.
Here it is.
http://www.durafix.com/
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I'd go go for the heliarc myself. I'm not too sure how strong the zinc or whatever rods are. I bought some and was going to try them out, so far they are still in the package.
yep , look for a fab shop with a TIG setup , shouldn't take longer than ten minutes
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Yes, it can be done. MIG and TIG are two processes, with TIG offering more control and a better appearance. The TIG process also requires much more skill.
Aluminum in general is difficult to weld, and the impurities in some castings make it more difficult.
If it is a part that is expensive, difficult or impossible to replace, I would suggest seeking out professional help.
I have no experience to share regarding the rods made to fix aluminum. I don't know if I would try it on a load bearing repair.
Why do people always claim that aluminum is so hard to weld...and that TIG takes so much skill?I have MIG and TIG welded plenty of aluminum (shiny new as well as super dirty) and have always gotten good results. I remember my first time welding together some aluminum and being a little leery because I had heard before that it was difficult. As I got into I found that it was just the same as welding any other metal.My opinion is: if you can weld steel you can weld aluminum.DC
i'm with you.... i don't weld alum 1x 3 years but i keep alum wire for the mig and a small bottle of mixed gas for it... also have a different liner for the mig gun... i've fixed whatever i needed fix'n and it never looked too bad or broke again... i use to fab and weld on new ears for munice transmission cases and never had one pop off...
like most things... it just ain't that hard
p
Well, good TIG welding *does* take skill... at least if you don't have the knack or a gift for welding.
Melting an outside corner closed in stainless in the flat... or even vertical up... is pretty easy, especially without filler. Trying an overhead butt weld with filler in stainless is mildly challenging :)
Maybe you have the gift.
I have been OK with aluminum MIG, but do not have the equipment to do aluminum TIG.
I certainly would not suggest that anyone tries *for the first time* welding something that needs to be right on the only piece they have.
I would assume cast aluminum is gonna be tough... while I think standard aluminum would be reasonably ok to work with. I recently picked up some aluminum welding rod but haven't had an opportunity to use it yet.I only weld with oxy-acetylene torches. Haven't stepped up to electric welders yet.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
do you mean brazing aluminum with a torch ?.
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I imagine that is an alumaloy or similar product. It melts at a temp cooler than aluminum. You have to be careful with the heat and everything needs to be very clean but I have seen guys braze aluminum beer cans together with this stuff.
They still warn you not to use it for structural welds.
Thanks g, I don't have much need for aluminum repair around here, but that would seem to be the ticket for small cracks and missing edges !.
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no, i mean welding
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
You can't weld alum. in the presence of oxygen, it create Al.ox. You are brazing or soldering.
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Edited 7/13/2009 3:50 pm ET by Sphere
You CAN weld aluminum... use flux to counter the effects of oxidization. They've been torch-welding aluminum a lot longer than they've had electrical means to do so.
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I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Edited 7/13/2009 4:53 pm ET by PeteDraganic
Not so as far as before haveing the electrical means, you can't even make al. w/out massive amts. of ele.
The TVA was primarily started for Alcoa to make AL. for WW2, before that it was up there with the price of gold, due to extreme cost of manufacturing from ore.
Torch w/shielding flux is more like brazing than welding. Really, it is. Not trying to get ya riled up. Or Frenchy ya.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Sorry. There is a rod for welding, not brazing, aluminum with an oxy/acet torch. I had some of this rod, maybe I still have it. And I've got the cobalt blue lenses for my goggles, that are recommended. So I have, or had, everything I need except the talent.... Just couldn't get the knack for it. Aluminum doesn't change color like steel, it just gets a different gray, then a little shiny, then falls apart. Tough to control a puddle that looks like everything else. I don't know, but I'd guess that arc welding cast aluminum must be different than welding rolled aluminum or extruded aluminum. Just like its different to weld steel vs. cast iron.
I'll take both of ya's word, but I'd sure like to see it in real life.
Actual welding was ( as I was taught) only heli arc , and then the invention of tig.
I'd love to stand corrected, but so far I can't find any verification.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Here's a link to a site that talks about gas torch welding of aluminum: http://www.tinmantech.com/html/welding_aluminum_body_sheet.phpSecond thing: heliarc and tig are really one and the same. I'm not a welder, I'm just a guy who gets himself into different things. Usually I can get myself back out.
Cool thanks for the link, I don't mind being corrected, esp. before I try to weld something..LOL
Tungsten Inert Gas is but a dream of mine, I'm stuck with a Lincoln MIG for now..but I'm not a welder either, just fix stuff, and daudle.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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I bought these welding rods from our local welding store and they look like aluminum with a silver color flux. The guy said we could weld alum with them in my arc welder so we welded a broken edelbrock intake then drilled and retapped it. good as new and still working.
I agree with Pete. Go to the Millermatic website, you'll see all kinds of WELDING equipment for aluminum.
Pete, what you can do with an O/A torch on Al could only be brazing, because of the O2
and would probably require a different technique than brazing ferrous metals .
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Yep, what maddog said, go with a pro welding shop and TIG. (and you know how seldom if ever I've recommended paying for having something done!)
I have a few boxes of the flux core Aluminum rod for use with oxy torch.
VERY difficult if not immpossible (at least for me) to get a good solid high strength structural weld with that stuff.
No boat here, but if I had to replace what I'm guessing holds under a 3 in. dia mast, I'd make a weldment of stainless pipe and plate, chuck in the lathe, and finish to interface with your boat and mast. Never break that one.
I have actually thought about buying a chunk of brass or aluminum and machining it myself. I'm thinking I can do it with the rotozip and abrasive blade, sawzall with metal blade, that kind of stuff. it does not have to look good, and all it really does is fasten the mast to the deck and keep the bottom of the mast from kicking out. All the force is straight down from mgravity initially, and then side forces which are taken up by the rigging when sailing."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Lignum Vitae can handle that. Was common in the olden days.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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What's the OD of the mast?
If you're looking at replacing the foot rather than repairing it I would look at getting a slip pipe flange.
Silicon bronze wire will weld disimilar metals.
My fab shop uses it to weld SS to iron, iron to copper, SS to copper, SS to aluminum et al.
Try a product called Alumaloy. It can be applied with a propane torch but a Mapp gas torch is better. I used it to repair an aluminum boat several years ago and it is still afloat.
http://www.alumaloy.net
"DW was helping me take it down last week and it got away from her, torqued the base sideways and popped off an ear."
And you want to weld it back on ?
That's just cruel.
Take her to the hospital. A doc can sew it back on, much less painfully.
( My alternative, off-the-cuff remark, would have gotten me banned. ;o) )
We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn..You are always welcome at Quittintime
It's all in how you read between the lines.
I'll try to posta pic of the busted piece, it's not a thing of beauty to start with. Looks like a low dollar casting."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
The roundish stub fits into the base of the mast. The two ears on the right mate with a fitting on the deck, a 1/4" bolt acts as a pivot. The ears are to the rear of the mast. You lay the mast down, hanging over the stern, align the holes, insert the bolt, and pivot the mast upright. The forestay, a cable attached at the top of the mast, then clips to a fitting on the bow and keeps it upright.
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"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
as small as that is.,...
might be best to find another one...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
That would be an easy sand cast.
Lay it on a hunk of plywood just like it is. (Super glue it back to gether first, and tape over the drilled holes.) Dust with talcum powder. Make a plywood box about 6x6 x6 and place it around it. Mix some dry sand w/old motor oil and sift it over that talc coverd part. Pound down the sand lightly and keep going till the box is full.
Cap the box and flip the plywood base over WITH the capped box. Gently remove the plywood base, and gently tap the mast part. remove it, and melt it. Maybe add an old lawnmower piston for extra alum.
Pour it in the cavity, let cool and drill your holes out.
Polish it up and yer done. Maybe even cast it in brass for a nice touch.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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"That would be an easy sand cast."Great idea. I made a latch for my microwave exactly the same way, using the pot metal original as a master and brazing rod material for the new one.
I do agree it might be easier to just buy a new one if they are available but a lot of times things like this are not.
This would also be a trivial thing to get welded since he can carry it into a shop.
Sand casting is exactly what I was going to suggest.Only I wouldn't melt the old casting, and re-pour it.I'd find something else to melt and pour. Bronze being probably the best option.That small a casting wouldn't take much.With the old casting intact, you'll have a pattern for drilling the new holes, and taking off casting overruns and warts...We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn..You are always welcome at Quittintime
Great. I'll mail it to you and you can send back a bronze piece."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
ROFLMAOI could do it.This ridge I live on, has a bunch of pockets of "green sand".But if I did it, it would cost you a lot more than if you just went to the boat store and bought a new one.....We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn..You are always welcome at Quittintime
Maybe. The title on the boat sayd it was made in 1960. Although I think a sliughtly different version was made until the early 80's."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
If you run out of other options, email me. We'll discuss it...We are smart in so many ways. Surely, we should be able to understand that in between war and passivity, there are a thousand possibilities. ~Howard Zinn..You are always welcome at Quittintime
Alternatively, you could mill one out of Al, Brass, or even Stainless.I have always wanted to cast something but I could probably mill it faster than I could learn the process of casting. Everybody has a friend with a Bridgeport.DC
I'll mail it to you and you can send back a bronze piece
Since you gave me such a great deal on the sanding belts, I could make a facsimile for you with SS or brass/bronze.-- or rod weld what your have, it is thick enough for the Al welding rod (which I have on hand)
problem is, likely could not find the time to do it till october??
After seen the pix, If it were mine, for a quick fix, I'd screw a piece of angle iron or Al to the base and drill a hole to match to get thru the summer.
As others have said, hard to see the puddle, plus AL has good thermal conductivity which tend to produce more melt than one wants.
BTW, ever melt/cast silver? First time I did it, did not think anything was going to melt - then BAM, the whole ladle was liquid!!!
Edit PS: if it were mine DW would never have broken it, we would not have had time this summer to even think about using a boat<G>
Edited 7/14/2009 1:25 pm ET by junkhound
TIG is the only way to go. Alumaloy specifically tells you this is not for structural welds and MIG is probably going to be too rough for your tastes. They can puddle a TIG weld and make a nice appearance.
I have an old pontoon boat and I have had it welded several times for different things. The trick is finding a guy with a TIG on a truck if you can't get the boat to the shop. They do exist and it will probably be in the $100 range (minimum charge) for more welding than you need. I try to stack up several projects before I call. They can also do stainless.
MIG is probably going to be too rough for your tastes
I doubt that. he's talking of carving one out with a dremal and a sawzall. :)
yes...
TIG... preheat the AL
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Welding will be fine and any professional shop will know the best process to use. But I'm betting that you can get another foot from the boat manufacturer or from any spar shop.
Certainly... TIG(TGAW) is the way to go, if the part is cast you may have to heat-treat/temper it after welding. If you want to use oxy-acetylene, goto http://www.tinmantech.com I have used his flux, lens and filler-rods for Experimental Airplane gas tanks.
Most MIG setups are for steel. It is easy to weld different alloys with a TIG. Find a shop with a TIG who has welded Aluminum. Not hard but some little tricks. Like chamfering the edges to give more surface area for the weld.
I am a torch welder and TIG is a 'natual' transition for me... so I am kid of a TIG bigot. I also spent a boatload(no pun intended) on my TIG outfit...
I have had a *lot* of trouble MIG welding alum, the wire is not as stiff as the steel and jams a lot. I use pre/post gas flow with TIG and in theory will prevent oxidization before the weld skins over.
I treat *everything* aluminum with DX533 and DX503 from PPG it prevents, then use SW P60g, or PPG DX1701, primer then paint... especially if it is going anywhere near the ocean.
Corrosion is an important point. Most probably the Aluminum Casting was anodized to prevent corrosion. The weld will not have that protection. The weld if done correctly will be structurally superior to the casting, but needs something to protect it from corrosion. Also in a salty environment stainless steel screws or bolts will cause the aluminum to deteriorate very fast. Brass or plane steel bolts will be more appropriate.
Edited 7/14/2009 9:53 pm ET by Jay20
I have an aluminum pontoon boat that has been welded on a lot in the last 20 years or so. It lives in salt water 400 hours or more a year.
I have found if I clean it well after the welding, shoot on 2 coats of zinc chromate primer and 2 coats of urethane enamel it does just fine.
That will work... one misconception with zinc chromate is that it will protect the aluminum, in reality the zinc is sacrificial and will be depleted in a few years if it gets exposed to the SW. But because you are top coating, it *shouldn’t* get exposed to the salt water. Corrosion resistance in aluminum depends a lot on the alloy, 6000 series it is pretty corrosion resistant, but the 2000 series it will aggressively corrode if it is not protected.<!----><!----><!---->
I have good success with AlumaPrep to clean, adoline then an etching primer, the result is a very strong bond. <!----><!---->
The key to success is to use something that you are comfortable with, don’t keep experimenting because you tend to keep introducing new things to go wrong. I guess this is the same with any craft, so I am stating the obvious ?<!----><!---->
Eddie, if you run out of other options... one of my boats has a similar arrangement that may have been cobbled together, but works<G><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/39626350@N07/3743454366/" title="DSC06959 by BucksnortBilly, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2626/3743454366_41e633e806_o.jpg" width="640" height="480" alt="DSC06959" /></a><p>The silver dollar is what makes the system work<g>Edited to imbed the pic in the next post, d'ohhttp://www.tvwsolar.com We'll have a kid
Or maybe we'll rent one
He's got to be straight
We don't want a bent one
He'll drink his baby brew
From a big brass cup
Someday he may be president
If things loosen up
Edited 7/21/2009 1:08 pm ET by Snort
View Imagehttp://www.tvwsolar.com
We'll have a kid
Or maybe we'll rent one
He's got to be straight
We don't want a bent one
He'll drink his baby brew
From a big brass cup
Someday he may be president
If things loosen up
I think mighty putty would fix it.