To all well users and diggers out there: I have a well at my summer ‘camp’ site. It has been in use for many years. It services two campers. Suddenly the water smells like very rotten eggs. (sulfur I suspect) A shower makes you smell like a hard boiled egg.
If you run the water for a period of time it seems to lessen in strength of odor – or you just get used to it??
Is this dangerous?
What could be the cause?
Is there a cure?
Should I call a well guy/gal?
The well is used only in the summer months and then turned off during the winter.
Thanks, Mike
Replies
Drilled, dug, bored, what is the casing, etc..
If the smell is new, possibly a bacterial growth in the well, esp if it is an old dug well with brick lining??
Dump 4 or 5 bottles of laundry bleach in it and let sit for a few days.. there are commercial stronger bleach tablets also.
I will check and give as many specifics as possible. This is a well and land I inherited two years ago. Any easy way to find out those specifics from looking at or into the well?Mike
Sulfur smell is a pretty common complaint with wells that don't get used a lot. It probably is from bacteria.Pour in a gallon of Clorox, either let it sit for a day or backwash the well from a hose on the well head down the same hole the clorox went down.Run water through the faucets until it smells like Clorox, turn it off, and let it sit for overnight. Now ya got city water<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
We'll have a kid
Or maybe we'll rent one
He's got to be straight
We don't want a bent one
He'll drink his baby brew
From a big brass cup
Someday he may be president
If things loosen up
I know that you said that your well has been in service for many years, but I know for many years it has been a law that the well driller has to attach a tag with id number to the casing. This will lead to the original driller and the well specs. I would also try the clorine approach. Check with your neighbors. Often they can be a wealth of info on pumps and the local ground water.
That the smell is from a particuliar type of bacteria and harmless (or that's what I've been told), it just smells like hell.
One thought is have you replaced a water heater recently? There are some anode rods in the heaters that facilitate that particuliar kind of bacteria growth. We built a new house last year and had the "rotten egg" smell. Took out the anode rod and the smell went away (I know, that voids the warrenty but that's ok).
The chlorine suggestion will work but you're going to have to flush the entire system and maybe do it a few times.
Runnerguy
I'm going to have to do the chlorine flush. The hot water heaters are not new - perhaps 4 or 5 years old. This is a new problem - in fact new to this summer - perhaps in the last 3 weeks. I will try the hyper-chlorinate process. Flush to itself for a period of time and then sit for a few days and see where it leads.The smell is horrible. Kids hate taking a shower and frankly you smell worse after than before. Thanks for your advice. If the flush does not work I will check on the hot H2O tanks.Mike
One way to find out if it's HWT related is to turn on an outside hose bib (inside faucet might work but an outside one is better because it hasn't been contaminated with hot water). If there's still a smell, it's not HW related.
Runnerguy
Like Junkhound, I'm curious about the type of well.Does if only have something like an 8" PVC pipe coming up to the surface, or is it a 4' diameter brick structure? Or some other kind?
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If you do the chlorine flush, be sure to divert as much of that away from your drain field as possible. Strong chlorine solutions are not beneficial to drain fields.
It is a common practice for people on wells to chlorinate the system before they leave for an extended period of time.
So when you get back it is ready to go.
You should have a system for when you leave and this would be part of it. "There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
Thanks - Since this property is used only on weekends the next time I leave I will chlorinate and leave for the 4 - 5 days before we return. I know it all in my head but rotten egg smell = rotten egg taste.Mike
Let us know how that works out for you.
<One thought is have you replaced a water heater recently? There are some anode rods in the heaters that facilitate that particuliar kind of bacteria growth. We built a new house last year and had the "rotten egg" smell. Took out the anode rod and the smell went away>Interesting runner, same thing happened to me -- new electric HWH and the water stinks like rotten eggs. Can I temporarily crank up the temp and kill the bacteria? It's kind of hard to pour bleach into a HWH. Are there certain temps that makes bacteria thrive?
We tried cranking up the temp and it didn't work. I noted in a follow up post here that you can confirm if the smell is WH related by checking the water coming out of a hose bib or even the refrigerator ice maker.
Runnerguy
You're probably smelling hydrogen sulfide, which is a waste product of certain bacteria.
Do the test that someone mentioned with the outside faucet to make sure it's not the water heater.
If it is the water heater, you would also treat it with chlorine to kill the colony of bacteria. Be sure you flush the chlorine out after 12-24 hrs to prevent damage to neoprene or rubber washers in the plumbing system.
The type of anode rod that contributes to the bacterial growth in water heaters is made of magnesium. Without an anode rod, your water heater tank will rust out very soon.
Replace the magnesium anode rod with an aluminum one. It is not as effective at preventing corrosion, but it will definitely be better than none. You can buy a "sausage-link" style of anode rod that easily feeds in through the top of the tank with very little headroom. About $35-40.
Take out the water heater's anode rod and replace it with an aluminum one.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
No, I didn't vote for him; but he IS my president. I pray for the his safety, and the safety of his family every day. And I pray that he makes wise decisions.
Apparently a lot of people are new readers of Fine Home Building or don't read it completely!
This was covered a while back. Turns out snakes crawled into the well to stay warm and drowned. Their decay is what produces the smell.
Bacteria feeding on Magnesium is far more common. I've seen that literally hundreds of times, but never the snmakes
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<Bacteria feeding on Magnesium is far more common. I've seen that literally hundreds of times, but never the snakes>Can we just pull out that magnesium rod in the HWH and kill the snakes ... I mean bacteria?I have never heard of bacteria in a gas-fired HWH, is that something typical to the electrics?
May be. Took out the anode rod and the problem went away. Read my replies above.
Runnerguy
<May be. Took out the anode rod and the problem went away. >Thanks runnerguy.Did you put the anode back in? If the bacteria feed on magnesium (how weird is that!) can the anode be removed, then "sterilized," and then returned to service or another rod purchased?Since the "bacteria" don't "die off" when the temperature is cranked up in the HWH, I'm starting to think they are a chemical reaction rather than biological warfare.My water smell is not so bad yet. It is occasionally noticeable in the vanity furthest from the tank.
No. We just took the whole thing out.
Runnerguy
Runnerguy,No more stinky water and no more stinkin' HWH?
No, I meant we took out the anode rod. The water heater's still there.
Runnerguy
We see it here a lot beause there is heavvy mineral in the water, so people stop the problem by filtering that out. In your case, since you have recently had it appear, it is more likely the annode that could be cchanged as others recommend. Certainly that is the cheaper first bet
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'll look through some of my older copies of Fine Home Building and see If I can find it for you. It's there, one of those last page stories.
I may not have it since I give away my old copies freely..
Thanks Frenchy ...Finding things in FHB was a whole lot easier when they used to provide an annual index. I still have my notebook of annual indexes, do you remember the article?
whatever makes you happy old guy. I'm just saying the odds of it being from a snake are infinitessimally small by ccomparison
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Piffin,
You may very well be correct. My only involvement with a well comes from my youth.. That and what I read.. since they decribed the exact same cirmcumstances I felt it was worthy of comment.. Especially since it was published in the article by our host, Fine Home Building.
with qualifications like that, who can argue?
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I found the article Fine Home Building Oct/November 1986 #35 (picture of a spiral staircase on the front cover)..
Article Was last page which was/is Great moments in Building history. Titled; Where There's a Well
You do realize, do't you/ That great Moments is meant to entertain rather than to inform. It does so by nature of the fact that the events presented in those stories are so rare as to make themselves entertaining, so we get to laugh at ourselves
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So you believe that they are made up and not based on reality?
I'm beginning to understand how you disseminate information. If this is where you've learned what you're passing on about wells... you may just want to dig a little deeper<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
We'll have a kid
Or maybe we'll rent one
He's got to be straight
We don't want a bent one
He'll drink his baby brew
From a big brass cup
Someday he may be president
If things loosen up
No I didnot say that. I said their PURPOSE is to entertain, not to inform.Meaning that for you to be suggesting that everyone who is talking about all the other things that COMMONLY cause this problem are ignorant because they don't point to that little story is way off base. Almost all the way out to the planet Neptune.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
believe that they are made up and not based on reality
Mine was real (Nov'90, "ten year roof")
Although the editors did want me to throw in an anecdote about a Chinese pallet that had a few hundred pound of steel re-inforcing (did not actually use that pallet in cabin construction). I did though, editors said does not need to be 100% precise <G>
Edited 8/19/2009 8:16 pm ET by junkhound
Thanks Junkhound it's nice to put a person with an article.
By the way I really enjoyed that article.. For those who may have missed it, it's in November of 1990 #63 the front cover is A Colonial Sampler
>>>Turns out snakes crawled into the well to stay warm and drowned. Their decay is what produces the smell.
Ewwwww...... that's just nasty. Makes me glad my well is inside a building with a well cap.
You have sulfur-reducing bacteria, which is not harmful to humans, just annoying. It will NOT go away on its own. Sometimes it's naturally occurring in the acquifer and you just deal with it by water treatment, but if it's been introduced, you can often kill it. I got it in my well from not using backflow preventers on my hose bibs attached to soaker hoses. I found out that's a common way for surface bacteria to infect a well. Since you didn't have it before, it sounds introduced.
My solution was to shock the well with regular household bleach. If you use pool tablets or pellets, you risk having them hang up on your wire guards, torque arrestor, the top of your pump, or accumulate in the very bottom of your well, which can get very expensive very quickly. Even household chlorine can have deleterious effects, so it's a good idea to dilute it before pouring it in your well casing.
You can't just pour a gallon or four gallons or whatever in your well and expect it to do the job. The chlorine is consumed in its interactons with the iron and bacteria and whatever else in the well, so you need to calculate a ratio of chlorine to the amount of standing water in your well as a starting point, then add for the amount of water in your house lines, pressure tank, and water heater. You're looking in the range of 50-200 ppm of residual chlorine. The good news is, you can get pool test strips to do this test, and just add chlorine and recirculate it until you see the proper residual at the farthest faucet.
The pH level of the water affects how well the chlorine does its job. A slightly acidic pH of about 6.5-6.8 is ideal. If your water is very alkaline, chorine won't work as well. There are acid washes you can use to raise the pH, mostly dangerous, such as sulfamic acid, hydrochloric acid, or acetic acid. I had tried using vinegar (acetic acid) in one of my unsuccessful well shockings, but then learned the natural 6.8 pH of my well water is ideal anyway.
I've had to shock my well this summer for iron-reducing bacteria, which often co-occurs with the sulfur-reducing bacteria, and can cause a great deal of sliming problem in a well screen and pump. The first two occasions i shocked the well, i wasn't able to clear the infection. I investigated a number of spendy and spendier options - pellet droppers, in-house chlorination, filters, etc - and decided to try shocking the well one more time, for peace of mind that i'd done all i could to fix the problem instead of manage it. I employed all the accumulated tips from weeks of research.
I filled clean garbage cans with water with water, chlorinated them, then bailed them down the well with a clean bucket. I added 140 gallons (four 35-gal containers) to my well casing, which nearly filled my casing to the top. Adding the extra water puts pressure on the water below, forcing chlorine outside the well casing where bacteria also lurk. You, of course, calculate extra chlorine for the added water.
I recirculated the chlorinated water via the yard hydrant, then opened all house valves until i could smell chlorine, then closed them. Over the next 18 hours, i periodically recirculated the water and bled fresh chlorine throughout all the house valves. At one point the chlorine smell was faint, so i added more to the well and recirculated until it smelled strongly again. (I didn't have pool strips, but my nose was pretty well calibrated now from my previous, measured attempts.)
I flushed the well until it ran clear. Then i repeated the whole cycle again. This last bit is my own idea, but i thought that catching the little beasties with their nacelles cracked before they could go to warp speed was A Good Idea.
It's been a month since i did it. Earlier attempts to kill the bacteria failed in a couple days.
You have a different bacteria, but the treatment is essentially the same for both. If you google "shock well" you'll get a lot of conflicting chlorine/water ratios. Some will say you can't get rid of such bacteria, but i got rid of my SRB years ago and very possibly the IRB this time.
Here's a helpful site to calculate the amount you'll need to get to 200 ppm in clear water. Keep in mind that the chlorine reacts with iron in your casing (if it is iron), so it's "used up" in chemical reactions besides killing bacteria. The dirty, chlorinated water you flush will no doubt make you cringe, but don't panic!
http://www.water-research.net/shockwelldisinfection.htm
PS: My PT manufacturer says the bladder won't take chlorine, but it's still working fine since the first shocking for SRB about 2000.
An excellent resource for a great deal more information is Terry Love's plumbing forum. http://www.terrylove.com
Good luck.
duinrg all your research did you happen to find anything as a backflow preventer for the well?
Backflow preventer for a WELL? I'm not quite sure what you're asking, John, but ill take a stab at the variations on the theme of preventing contamination of a well via backflow prevention. There are check valves on the drop pipe, which some people will mistakenly call backflow preventers, but they really aren't; they are there to prevent a hard start so pipes aren't rattled to bits, but they aren't fail-safes. On irrigation pipes, there are a variety of types of backflow preventers, which are best described at this most excellent tutorial on irrigation info:
http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/backflow-preventers.htmYoutube has some great tutorials on testing the various types of backflow preventers. I just bought a Pressure Vacuum Breaker style at a Re-Source store for $6 (new about $100) and will test it using the info i got there.For hose bibs, a simple $5 backflow preventer with hose thread that goes between the hose bib and hose has kept my well SRB-free since my bad experience. The plastic ones only last a year or so, so i recommend the brass type for a dollar more, though they are a little harder to find. Here's a great source for irrigation hardware: http://www.mrdrip.com/backflowpreventers.htmAnd of course, you can't leave a hand-held shower in the bathtub water, etc.Did that answer your Q?
I should've been clearer. A backflow preventer at the pressue tank to keep system pressure from flowing back into the tank, and then the well.
Reason I'm asking is that I'm looking at setting up a full blown irrigation system off my well throughout the yard and garden and nursery. When I ran the water lines (not connected to the house at all, striclty an irrigation well) I made taps and capped them at each location of a yard hydrant figuring I'd get to this day someday where I'd be installing an irrigation system. The taps will make it easier to get water supply to the new system around the property but I'd need a backflow preventer at each location which adds up (5x). Am going to be looking to see if I can have one backflow preventer for the entire distribution system to protect the tank and the well intself while trying to prevent repeating the same problems you had.
An irrigation well shouldn't need a pressure tank, eh? If you do use a pressure tank, the backflow preventer should come after the tank and pressure switch and before any valves. Nothing goes between the pressure switch and the pump. I'm still not sure if that's what you needed to know...? If you're running above-ground hoses off multiple hydrants, your cheapest way to go is to use the hose-thread backflow preventers, such as i linked at Mr. Drip, for about $25 (5 hydrants x $5). Hydrants themselves are very expensive, though, so do you really mean a hydrant, or are you simply talking about tapping the main line with a pipe riser and a hose bib? The last hydrant i bought cost $80...Some options in hydrants, some with built-in backflow prevention, FWIW: http://www.wcmind.com/Woodford/Yard_Hydrant_Pages/YrdHyd.htmYou can install a backflow preventer of one of the sorts outlined in the irrigation tutorial before all the hydrants/risers, but placement is very important. The PVB i'm using needs to be a foot above the highest sprinkler; if you have unlevel property, you have to take that into account. The double-check valve can be buried, but it's much more expensive and harder to inspect or clear for winterization. Some types reduce your pressure more than others. Each type has certain restrictions or features, depending on how you look at it, so if you haven't read the irrigation tutorial yet, be sure to look it over well. It's a treasure trove of information, very well written, and very, very thorough.Best prices on backflow preventers i found online is here: http://backflowpartsconnection.com/If you need to buy sprinklers, let me know. I found a guy on ebay that sells cases of Rainbird rotors etc. for less than half what Lowe's was charging. Excellent service, brand new product. (search for "two-oh")
Edited 8/18/2009 3:10 am by splintergroupie
Thanks for the lead on the rainbird supplies.
I want to end the mulitple hoses from hydrant issues. I've been running a poor-mans system using Melnor water timers but they don't last much longer than 2 years and the money I've spent on them in the last 10 years would've paid for a genuine system by now. The newer timers they have with the digital read out only last a season since the readout fails in the 1st yr IME. Spigot backflow preventers have too much volume loss (as well as the inline timers) for me to be happy with them. The timers cost me 5gpm from a delivery of 23gpms from the hydrants. I can get better supply from the taps I installed & capped near the bottom of the hydrants.
The tank was the drillers plan and he knew my plans for the well to be irrigation. Maybe he was figuring on future connection to the house which would be a whole other set of issues withteh city water (BI told me it wasn't tolerated if county water already connected once but had an idea that has been a solution in the back fo my head during this conversation. It was to use a regular BFP like the county water would install at the meter).
Down here all the well components are in a well house and not inside like up in the regularly freezing north although we do get freezes they;'re not as deep ro long so light bulbs are all that's needed to keep things flowing and not bursting.
Thanks for the links. I found two-oh easily.
Now i'm stressing! I bought a digital timer for the Community Gardens i set up this year. I have it disguised inside a bucket so no one will steal it, and so far it's working fine, but i'll pull it when it gets cold and run some vinegar rinse through it before i store it. I hope having it covered prolongs its lifespan. I've also spent a fortune on such timers at my property, and then spent a fortune on replacement solenoids when the Orbit valves for my underground sprinkler system wouldn't work properly - iused the tutorials i linked to diagnose that issue, too - as well as a fortune on drip systems to keep plants alive while i figured things out. Last year i started to use a livestock tank as a settling pond for the sand, intending to use an irrigation pump from there to the underground lines. Then i had a dog nearly drown in it, so i drained it and waited for inspiration. <G> This spring i spent a lot of money deepening the well ($5500) when i now know that a proper sand screen ($500) would have been the better/cheaper solution. I traded good but sandy water for iron/bacteria-laden, non-sandy water. I listened to the "expert" drillers, unfortunately. I can't stress nearly enough to do all the reading you possibly can before deciding what will be your best use of money and time. I've got my sprinklers all running perfectly now, but it's been a slog getting all the parts operational...and i've only got 10 gpm to work with! In re to present water treatment, if i'd followed any of the recommendations from Culligan, Kinetico, etc. i'd have ended up with completely biofouled and useless equipment in a matter of days or weeks, after spending a couple thousand dollars on their inappropriate recommendations.Yeah, munis are really touchy about cross connections with home-owner drilled wells, and with good cause. Some of the bonehead stories you can read on Terry Love's plumbing forum make you go "hmmmm...."
I think with you protecting the timer under the bucket will get you more life from that timer than mine where they were left in the open. The longer lasting ones were the round ones that had a specific sequence to follow and different colored flashing lights on them. I was able to find a source from Lowes that were identical to the Melnors but were rebranded to Rainbird(?) and a few $$ more than the orig Melnors after the Melnor stock ran dry. I bet if you could memorize the programming sequence of that dig readout you could make them work when the screen goes bad.
$5500 in lieu of $500? I bet that hurt and will hurt for some time. Around here $5500 will just about get you the entire well (up to 500') including the electrician to run a sub-panel to the well, the distribution plumbing, and the well house and pad.
I'm pretty set on getting a sprinkler system in this winter, just have to decide which brand. Key factor will be one that I can get parts for readily.
$30 a foot for casing, everything else is extra. Montana is funny in that wages are so low - trained guys at the truss plant makes $8/hr - yet prices are so high. Plain sagebrush-covered land around here is $10K/acre.
About the sprinklers: i'm not sure which sprinklers you'll choose or what size taps you have off your main line, but i was all set up for 1/2"-inlet sprinklers, then spaced and ordered 3/4"-inlet sprinklers from two-oh. No matter: there's a poly fitting with 1/2" MPT on one side and 3/4" MPT on the other. I found them at one big box, but not the other, though you can find them online, too. They're inexpensive, but its a lot more hassle without them. Not that you'll space out as i did... <G>
About water heaters, anode rods, and sulfur:http://www.terrylove.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2127425
Cool story - You hadn't told me how successful you were. Tell us more about that calibrated nose...(-:
Animals don't know what failure is . . . If Max (the squirrel) can't open a nut, he simply tries another. He doesn't wallow in self-pity or swear to subsist on tree bark for the rest of his life. [Michael LeBoeuf, "Working Smart"]
In SW Fla we use aerators to get the sulfur smell out. This is a big ventilated tank with spray heads in in. You then have another pump to get the water out of the tank and into the house.
You would have to drain this down before water freezes tho. Fortunately that doesn't happen below the 26th parallel.
Back in the old days, folks used to keep a carp or a pike or a sturgeon down in their well, mostly for eating rats.
Apparently fishpoop doesn't taste as bad as dead rat. Which I can believe...
-t
I have had similar issues at a past residence and we had an automatic chlorine pellet dispenser. It worked minimally at best.
I think the idea of shocking the well with chlorine is a good one but I would do a little more research before using chlorox.
I have heard that if you get the chlorine for shocking a pool it will send the chlorine concentration sky high for a limited period and then the chlorine will oxidize or dissipate by some natural process to a non toxic level (for leach fields, gardens, etc). According the plumber who told me this, Clorox will not dissipate and will stay in the water in high concentrations much longer.
I can't say for a fact this is true, but I would suggest a bit of research to compare Swimming pool shock chlorine to laundry Clorox.
Good luck,
Karl
Your plumber is mistaken. The chlorine concentration depends solely on how much you add to the water. Household bleach is approx. 6% sodium hypochlorite, while the pellets and tablets are calcium hypochlorite in concentrated form, generally 56% up to as high as 90%. However, you can just figure out the parts-per-million needed, and mix that in your well weater. Yes, it does require some mathematics...........Chlorine does not "linger", unless it is undissolved. The big pool tablets some folks use to shock a well can fall to the bottom of the well, dissolve in place w/o a lot of circulation, then you can get a flush of chlorine if you have a large draw-down. I've read, though i can't vouch for it, that the type of chlorine and other chemicals in the pool tablets are hard on a residential pump.The pellet chlorinators are hooked into the wire to the well. Some have a control to cease dropping pellets if the well runs 15 minutes continously, which is generally for irrigation. If you have a pellet dropper model that doesn't have this lock-out, the pellets continually drop without the time to dissolve properly, then gang up at the bottom like the pool tablets do. I've read about equal numbers of accounts of pellet chlorinators working well and stories about having to pull pumps and well casings that had disintegrated. Pellets droppers are used for continual chlorination, though some folks use the pellets for shocking, too. The contents of the well get flushed to somewhere ELSE than your septic, first of all, then you drain the house through a spigot on the house, also to a non-critical area. Then the residual in the supply lines can go in the septic tank without harm.Household bleach is recommended by the US gov't and many travel/survival websites for emergency disinfection of water supplies. Pool chlorine is not. This doesn't really matter for shocking, as the well is purged of chlorine before re-use as potable water.