I have an iron water well that has sealed it self off and the water is not much . Its with a cabin that I bought last week . Well driller said” lets dynamite er. Course ya could buy 20 lbs of dry ice and try that first . “. He said he cant reset over it and redrill it because its a smaller size than his bits .
So how bout your experience with sealed off wells ?
Thar she blows!
Tim Mooney
Replies
I'm all for blowing things up. Got to do it in the Army, and thought it was great.
But I don't have a clue what you're trying to accomplish.......
On the way to work today, I ran over a bunny. The good news is that it was a pink bunny with sunglasses and a big drum.
I didnt have any idea either until a couple of days ago . Ive been on the phone with every one I can think of and this is what Ive learned ;
The driller said the well was a srong well five years ago when it was drilled. It has set for five years with out being used since it was drilled. I turned it on and it maybe pumped 50 gallons until it was out of water. I pulled the pump and found only a nine foot depth of water and the pump was taking up four feet of that ! Driller said it was iron muck sealing off the well . Dry ice will dissolve it , and dynamite will blow it loose. That is two separate ways of doing it. Either way the well must be cleaned out with a draw bucket. [the old timey one] I ran a one foot peice of four inch pipe attached to a rope after pulling the poump last night and the red muck fell off into the well in clumps. I know the problem is there , I am just searching for the best solution.
Tim Mooney
I haven't got a clue, Tim. Never heard of dynamite to cure a stalled water well. And dry ice ? Hmm, you learn something new here every day.
I just had a new submersible pump and bladder tank installed at a rental house in Southwest Georgia, out in the country. The old jet-pump had seen its better days. Now I've got lots of pressure. Would you believe the water table was at 23 feet ? Sandy land, peanuts is our number one crop. Lots of center pivot irrigation all around this home. Most center pivots use a 10 or 12 inch well, pumping about 1,200 gallons per minute.
Keep us posted. You've got my curiosity worked up on this one. Be careful of your book keeping when you're fxing up this cabin. You wouldn't want to get your receipts mixed up with your rental property expenses and make a mistake with a tax deduction !
Greg.
Edited 4/15/2003 9:04:55 AM ET by Greg Gibson
"Keep us posted. You've got my curiosity worked up on this one. Be careful of your book keeping when you're fxing up this cabin. You wouldn't want to get your receipts mixed up with your rental property expenses and make a mistake with a tax deduction !"
You sly dog you .No, we wouldnt want to do that . LOL.
Tim Mooney
If you dynamite 'er you run a chance of collapsing the well, not to mention the paper could clog your pump. If you dry ice 'er the pressure might lift your casing and you'll lose the seal on the drive shoe to the bedrock,
Much safer to hydrofrac it, but mucho more $$$.
Of course, being so cheap I make squeeking sounds, I'd try the dry ice first. Drop it in and cap the well right away.
So right you are I have found out on everything you said .
"Much safer to hydrofrac it, but mucho more $$$.
Of course, being so cheap I make squeeking sounds, I'd try the dry ice first. Drop it in and cap the well right away."
You pretty well explained it for me as well . [tight]
Here is the deal ; I dont have a well that is worth much right now . Hydro is more than drilling a new well ! Really , as I just checked it out . This well is a hundred feet and the driller said it would be 7.00 a foot to drill another just like it . Im like you ; Ill try the dry ice first and then blow it and take my chances. Funny thing is the dynamite and the dry ice costs about the same ! 35.00.
Tim Mooney
apologies for my diatribe about abandoned wells, my mind wandered from your original post. But I ditto the "keep us posted" request!
"But I ditto the "keep us posted" request!"
You bet! Not a problem about extra information as we all learn new stuff on here.
Tim Mooney
Seven bucks a foot?!! Man it's $30 and up around here!
$30 here too
My well is 884' deep with a 7" hole through granite(solid and fractured) with 1 1/2hp pump. Paid $15.00 per foot 8 years ago. Now the rate is $17-20 per foot plus pipe, wire, seal, etc. Cost me about $20k back then. I only get 7-10 gal per min. and they say that is REAL good around here!. (So.California)
WOW! I would be hauling water ! LOL.
Tim Mooney
7 to 10 gallons a minute is a lot of water! One GPM equals 1440 gallons per day. Most households only use 5,000 to 10,000 per month unless they do serious irrigating.
IMO the primary problem with most rural water systems is the lack of sufficient storage.Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
George (the one up here) averages 28,000 a month. Four wemens in the house.
I average 5 to 600 a month with this drought. Permitted for 1 GPM. Others out here are at 10 GPH. I'm down 640 feet.
A load of clothes, 5 minuet shower and the the dishes in the same day knocks out the well for a day maybe two. Just no water.
No drought and I have 630 feet of standing water in the 8" casing.
I am a lot better off than a lot of others out here though. I have water
Edited 4/15/2003 8:46:54 PM ET by IMERC
Dang, i get over 20 GPM at 180', yer makin' me feel like starting a lake...our 5 year drought may be just about over! EliphIno!
OH I HOPE SO!!!
Heres an idea........
Capture and melt some of that snow.View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
99% gone....
Raining now, T&L, cold and high winds. Being in the clouds during a T&L storm is a trip.
I got one of your beer bottle labels ready for shipment. You got your "or something"
Which place do want it sent to?
Did your well guy even suggest surging, or is it the hydro-whaterver what they call it in your parts? Essentially like using a big plumber's helper.
Another option is if you can store water during a heavy rain or over a few days of slow pumping, like in a above ground pool swimming pool, etc, is to flush the well out (need to pull the screen first). Flushed my well with a 2" pipe pumping 500 gpm downhole and about 6 yards of fine sand came up before the storage got drained (recycled the pumped out water back to storage). Pumped for about 7 hours.
The attached pix is the 500 gpm loaded with fine sand coming out the 8' casing, after the flush, pumped 29 gpm from 60 feet (biggest pump I got) for 10 hours with no slowdown. Before the flush the well screen just clogged with sand.
Is your well registered at 20 gpm? Or does it actually produce 20 gpm. Around here (so Colo) it seems that lots of wells that still are producing aren't producing as much. O course some have gone dry.
Pray for another ice age! :)Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
IMO the best rural water systems pump the well on a time (or sometimes a static level) switch which fills a cistern. Another float switch overrides the well pump to stop it if the cistern is full. A small surface pump (cheap and easy to replace) then pressurizes the pressure tank.
This type system gives more available water at any given time (bigger the cistern the better!) and tends to start the well pump many fewer times than if (as is common) the well pump was pressurizing the pressure tank directly.
Those fewer starts allow less wear and tear on the well pump i.e. longer life. Sure, the new well pump may be "only" $600, but unless you do it yourself it's gonna cost a bundle to have the pump switched out when it dies.
So many good ideas to spend money on, but dammit I still have to work to make money. It's so inconvenient........ :)Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
Allen , every time I mention price on here it sets people off . I was kidding Piffin a while back telling him to buy shares in a bank and retire here . I bid a house for 40 dollars a foot and lost the bid. I could go on , but its off the subject.
Tim Mooney
Yeps, 100 feet is nothing, how far to rock? Add about $8 for the casing to the drilling.
All of these techniques involve introducing pressure to clean out the fractures, even drilling tends to close them up. The dry ice goes to gas from solid, greatly increasing volume, that is why it is important to cap the well as soon as you can.
I'm wondering if your casing ever had a good seal, bedrock that produces great volumes of water tend to be highly fractured, and you need to set your casing further into the bedrock. Only an issue if you have to re-drill.
With the iron muck, I think you ought to set some D off low, and blow the damned thing. The ice will force the crap where you don't want it, your well guy knows what he is talking about.
One shake and you can pump water again, and as you do the well will self-clean. Blow it and pump it right out, while the nasties are in suspension. If you want to fuss, Tap the inline and feed it right back into the well thru a filter.
Driller said it was solid rock [really hard rock is what he said ] starting three feet down and down to about 75 feet where the rock ended and thats where he got the water . He went on to 100 ft for resorvoir . He says the pocket of water is lying just beneath the rock. He also said that at a 100 ft charge it wouldnt effect the water because of the rock and water being 25 ft above the charge . Its coal and shale under the rock to the bottom of the well. He thought blasting would loosen the shale under the rock and maybe allow a bigger pocet if I dont have the length of well left as the worst case senario, because it rises now with in 25 foot of surface. He plats every well he digs he says and I was thankful he could tell me those things from his office. Apparently my well has a file as he told me what the water test revealed and several other things. He hasnt even charged me and I offered . Im really leaning on the ice and then a charge together , but to step dpwn the charge to a half a stick since the ice is in the well deactivating it any way . He told me hes never seen a well crumble with a half a stick , but alone , it isnt enough. Hes thinking one stick by it self . Decisions.
Thank you for the information. Everthing you have said is also comming from him in his opinion also. Using both is something Im thinking about for the first try. My wife has a chemist employed and he is working on the reaction of dry ice and the iron muck as I type . He is going to give me report shortly . His veiw was if I used it, it wouldnt be going any where as he thinks it will hang around with out agitation , but he admitted he was jumping in front of the horse before he studied it .
Tim Mooney
Edited 4/15/2003 4:06:43 PM ET by Tim Mooney
Yah, post some pics. Love flying debri.
I have to go with your guy, drop a stick at it. One is no biggie, and forget the ice. He was right from the get go. Shake it and start pumping, you will be fine. Scarey water to put thru pipes, but that is another story.
Sorry to change my mind, but here would be different.
I thought I would put this in here as a few requested and you were good enough to answer .
Chemist says the dry ice is really heavy duty concentrated carbonate [sp] It is compressed , as it thaws and is in contact with its own water it causes a chemical reaction more then just its temp which lasts longer than just ice. With that said ;
He said it will eat "up" anything eatable . He told the story than in class they poured coke over a peice of chicken loaf and it ate it ! I asked if that meant dissolved and he said yes. He told me it was a lot like gastric jucies that break our food down and that was just coke. He said it should be a heavy malt like mix in the water when its done . I said COOL.
I got out tonight and measure the water and I still dont have that much , so I guess Im a long way away from even a gasllon a minute with only 27 gallons reserve built up at 5.00pm which is 24 hours since the pump was pulled.
Tim Mooney
Don't know what state you're in, but in Minnesota, the authorities are REALLY paraniod (I think with good reason) about abandoned wells. I believe they require pouring grout down the well until it won't take anymore...same as grouting around the casing in a new well, so as to eliminate any chance of ground water finding its way to deep water bearing formations and potentially contaminating neighboring wells. Seems like collapsing an old well would be worse than just capping it off.
There's even an affidavit that needs to be signed in blood by a land seller certifying that there are no abandoned wells on the property before the deal can be closed.
After my well was drilled last summer, a state inspector showed up and took a GPS coordinate of the new well for permanent record.
This is one case where I tend to agree with paranoid regulations. Ground water travels a LONG way, and I would just as soon keep my $15K water free of the neighbors beef farm residue.
Have you checked your state's regulations about adandoned wells?
My brother and several of his friends "re-activated" his well with dry ice followed by a few blasts down the hole with a 12 gauge. Sounds like a night out with the frat boys to me but he claims it worked great.
Kevin Halliburton
"One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -Elbert Hubbard-
Sounds like a blast !
Now for a Rez roar !
Tim Mooney
a few blasts down the hole with a 12 gaugea few blasts down the hole with a 12 gauge
If you try this one, make sure you use steel shot, no lead!Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
"...followed by a few blasts down the hole with a 12 gauge."
Hmmm... Lead fragments in the drinking water....
ya right, and don't eat any fish caught on lead artificial lures.
and quit using lead graphite pencils.
and get rid of your mercury thermometers...ya never know.
and that pre '70 painted trim inside your house... There while you sleep that stuff could be workin' on you.
man, am I gonna die?
Edited 4/16/2003 10:59:04 AM ET by rez
Hey, Tim,
About that tax stuff . . . It's a good thing we don't use our real names on this board, isn't it.
Tim ?
Hey, Tim ?
You there ?
Ha Ha ! Greg.
Why I otta ,.... LOL . Im starting a new thread !
Tim Mooney
just breatin' long enuf will kill ya, but what you breathe still changes the time frame...
Cremation: Up in smoke on last time! :)Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
I recall back in high school my science teacher pouring mercury in my cupped hands. Letting it run out on the lab table top, and coaxing it here and there. Liquid metal. Then it was transferred back in the jar.
About two or three weeks ago a student in a nearby school dropped and broke a mercury thermometer. Two or three droplets of mercury were on the classroom floor.
They shut down and evacuated the school and called in a HAZMAT team to remove the mercury.
Oy.
lmao.
Back in the day the French Monarchs would bathe in "pools" of mercury.
Maybe that explains a bit.
Cant believe they closed down the school.
But in todays high profile legal system, not sure I can blame them....View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
Actually it was steel shot but regardless- I think the parts per million would have been tolerable.
Kevin Halliburton
"One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -Elbert Hubbard-
I like your bro's idea, and the dynamite.
Know nothing about it, but blowing sht up and shootin sht are two of my favorite things... Maybe this should go under the stress relief thread?View ImageGo Jayhawks..............Next Year and daaa. Blues View Image
You and my brother would get along great.Kevin Halliburton
"One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -Elbert Hubbard-
I'm surprised some sort of acid wouldn't work well. . .. oxalic perhaps??
I believe that is the reaction of dry ice as it will boil a reaction with the water .
Tim Mooney
**kick** I should have thought of that. . . the CO2 creates carbonic acid. I was thinking maybe the vigorouse bubbling broke up the scale or whatever - but it is probably both. . .
My dad's well got slow too. The same guy that drilled it, pulled the pump then put acid down the pipe, then pumped out the acid after it worked for a bit.
I'm remembering it to be hard chunks of acid he dropped down it. (no it wasn't Mr. Natural.)
Pop's well cleared right up. His problem was calcium in the water. Strange tasting stuff but it didn't seem to hurt anything except bourbon & water. (it turned black) The casing is steel but the screens at the bottom are commonly brass.
Pop passed on, so I'm only second hand info. Good luck.
I'd listen well to the well man, though I am surprised he didn't use 6" steel casing just becase stuff happens. Our driller says fissures can come and go, and that every well is constantly changing. So, it makes some sense that yours stopped flowing after 5 years of not being used...sounds like some jostling is in order...got a camera<G> EliphIno!
"..sounds like some jostling is in order...got a camera<G>"
I dont know if I could catch the magic moment or not as tight as my butt will be . I was told tonight I would have to do it my self ! Something about liability . Hmmm. I borrowed a water tank tonight becuase the well man said it would have to be full of water . I just imagine a movie camera would be more like it as water gushes above the cabin . I hope it doesnt make a mess on that cabin . I guess I would have to dip in to the rent recipts . Oh dang Im not supppposed to be thinking like that .
Tim Mooney
Don't know the actual facts man.. Never saw it done...
When a well out here in the mountains stalls it is hydroblasted. Inlarges the well point chamber and fractures the surrounding rock. If it doesn't work - $17.50 a foot. Average depth is around 600 feet
Some of the people that have had it done said the procedure works. Their wells recovered. No body knows about or has heard of the dry ice trick
Now for the explosives... Just how big a lake you looking for???
Tim: A lifetime ago, in 1964, I had to do a demonstration of explosive forming. I used an M-80 firecracker in a 32 gal garbage can. After several practice shots out in the parking lot, we did it for real in an auditorium w/ a very high ceiling. Cleared the first few rows of human beans, lit the M-80 & dropped it in. BOOOOOOM! Water went to the ceiling and the bottom split. 32 gal of water all over the floor and dripping from the ceiling.
The waterstain is still on the ceiling over 45 yrs later.
I became instantly famous among the students.
Don
Thats pretty much what happened in that well. I wish I had seen the the show !
By the way , I have started another thread called , " I blew up the well!!! "
Im going out this morning and put dry ice in it and sink the pump . I should know more tonight as I hope I get it on line today.
Tim Mooney
Two great thoughts come to mind, from this conversation:
1) GI Jane (best Demi Moore movie ever): nurse asks her why she is subjecting herself to the inhuman punishment of Navy Seal training. Demi asks the nurse how the guys answer that question.
Nurse replies that the guys say they do it, "Because I get to blow sh*t up!"
2) About things in life that are bad for you, and joking that breathing alone will get you, if you do it long enough...
It seems that there is still so much radioactive fallout in the atmosphere from the '50s and '60s above ground nuclear testing done around the world (mostly US, Russia and China, but also a little from the other nuclear countries) that steel made today has too much radiation in it for highly sensitive sensing apparatous.
!
It seems that the best source on earth for good steel is from a bunch of WW1 German battleships in the bottom of Scappa Flow, Scotland, that the Germans scuttled there at the end of the war.
It takes so much air to smelt steel that all modern steels are contaminated by that fallout floating around in our air (our BREATHING air) when they are produced.
NASA used steel from the Kaiser's ships to make some of the most sensitive equipment on the Apollo missions because of this fact.
So, some of the Kaiser's navy is on the moon.
And, when you breathe, you are taking in a little (very little, but no one really knows how little is really ok, when spread over the entire human population for 157 years!) of that poison that was introduced into our air by our weapons development.
Granted, there are so many things that can make us sick, and most of them are NOTHING compared to what used to kill us (Cholera, Typhoid, infections, Plague, etc.) that maybe its all gonna be ok, but the longer we live, the more those tiny little things tend to add up and screw us up in our old age.
Two sticks of dynamite was the way to go. No sense ####-footing around when there's something gonna get you no matter what you do!
:oD
Norm
Maybe a new thread called "What have you blow up today and how did you do it?"
"Maybe a new thread called "What have you blow up today and how did you do it?"
Roar !!! Im actually wanting to do it again .
Tim Mooney