When they clearly screw up, I mean.
I gave my lumberyard an order for interior doors, and my order consisted of my verbal agreement to price, after having given them my written schedule.
The schedule included the manufacturer name, model, species, options, plus of course all the details of size, location, handing, machining, etc.
Where they screwed up was on the model. I ordered, using the manufacturer’s designation, three-panel doors. One panel wide, three panels tall, all panels equal in size. Manufacturer’s code for this is “31.” This was chosen by the client.
Lumberyard delivers them yesterday, late, all in a rush, it’s the last day of the billing cycle, the order was placed six weeks ago. The doors are all four-panel, one wide, four tall, all panels equal, each door is labeled “model 4E.”
We cannot wait six weeks, or even three or four, for a replacement of the order, done correctly. To stay on schedule, we need to hang these starting next week.
We hang the doors with slab in frame, using the slab to get the frame set to the margins we want. We then take the slabs out and store them, well protected, until the end of all finish work. This order is all in cherry, with factory-finished slabs.
We could hang the doors, and instead of safely storing the slabs, ship them back and wait for correct replacements. The worry I have about this remedy is that the hinge and lock preps might not match precisely, as they do when door and frame are machined together.
What has been your experience?
Replies
In my experience it ha snot been a major problem.We do primarily int. trim, and this is not unusual. (go figure) I would think they are all mortised and drilled to the same measurements, at least that is what I have found.
communicate with them about it. find a resolution
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Had this happen a few times. We contacted the suplier , worked out a agreement and hung the doors.
Later we returned and hung new slabs that we matched to the frames. In stained work make sure you save the stain from the frames to match the slabs.
I've done some jobs where we used dummy doors (a left/right pair) instead of the real ones. Get solid core doors of the correct size, mortise for the hinges to match your jambs, then go around the house and hang each jamb using the appropriate dummy. Don't even bother with the real doors until the last minute. This is useful in situations where the real doors are handmade cherry with bookmatched raised panels with a four-coat pre-finish and probably worth five grand each... no way you want to handle those more than necessary... but it would also work in your situation where you don't have the doors but you do have the jambs.
Verbal orders are my arch-nemesis. My worst vendors are the ones that can never be bothered to write up a special order for my signature. Granted you gave them the schedule to order from but is the price in writing? Stuff like that gets me ranting. My best vendor right now is my plumbing/HVAC wholesaler. Quotes come to my fax machine within 4 hours of my fax to them, with lead times for each item, an expiration date, etc. Any order placed on my account becomes an invoice faxed to me the same day I take delivery. I buy as much from those guys as I can.
Stinger,
Seeing as I am both the guy who has screwed up door orders, and just the guy who get to take the blame for screwed up door order, heres what I have done. A lot of this is relative to the situation, and the customer, but first things first, have a face to face meeting on the jobsite with your salesman, and figure out, what you want to do. The big questions to be answered are what are your options are, what your time schedule looks like, and then what they need to do to fix it. In the past, I have had the customer go ahead and hang the doors, and then I go back, or they go back, and we give them a credit on the account for their extra time, and place the correct doors in the frames. I have also had customers who could live with it, and jut wanted a little break on the price, to account for the mistake. but the most common solution would be to wait to install the doors, if time allows, and just order new units, and install them. But one last word of caution from experience, If you do order just replacement slabs, have your salesman come out and take the measurements for each, and every door, just in case. The jigs that the work is done on can get moved even within a run of the same units. That can be a royal pain, and look just plain ugly especcially on stain grade doors, if you have to rechisel the mortises. Glad to pass along the wisdom from screwing up.
I cannot believe how my supplier reacted, when he got the news from me, via fax before business hours. I faxed him to make sure he got the news, plus another copy of my original door schedule.
Rather than phone me, he faxed me back a handwritten note. He says it is totally his fault, that the wholesale jobber faxed him an acknowledgement he failed to read closely, and that he offers
1. To take back the order, giving full credit, or
2. To knock 10 percent off the bill if I can accept them.
There was no mention of him finding a way to rush me replacements per my order.
Good for them, nice to know they took care of it. Hope that solves it. I know how they feel, been there before.
As with most things building related, ditto what Piffin said. :-)
And you know what happened? This, all since 7:00 am today.
The lumberyard admitted their error but only offered to take back the doors and give full credit, or take a 10 percent price knockoff to keep them as-is. They did not offer to correct the problem and get us the right doors. How service-oriented!
The client rejected the doors that were delivered, so we have now pressed the lumberyard to order us new slabs and take the wrong ones back, after we have hung all doors in frames, and removed slabs from completed door openings.
Rather than offer to pick up the wrong slabs (which we contend are the lumberyard's and not ours), the lumberyard wants us to deliver them the slabs. They must be kidding!
Expected delivery is now late December for the correct slabs. I have told the yard to wipe the charge for the whole order off my account, and only to re-invoice once I have the correct slabs. I don't think I should have to pay a dime until the order is made right.
''took care of it'', YOUR KIDDING,RIGHT!
Well, it aint perfect, but it beats the heck out of a tough luck. That said, I went back and looked, and the only part that seems out of line with what I would do, and what has worked in the past is the 10%, I didnt really look at the details, just that they acknowleged that it was their fault. Trust me, thats the first step. Hopefully they are doing evrything they can. Its hard to say without knowing more details.
Oh, I just looked at the post after mine. They are full of crap. They should have called. And if they wont pick them up, then their are bigger issues. Sorry if I seemed insensitive.
Edited 11/2/2005 10:56 pm ET by jrdiblumber
Here is where this mess is going now.
We hung all the doors a couple days ago, the wrong ones, the deal being we will give back the "mistake" slabs after hanging, then wait for replacements.
We notice something not right about maybe half the doors in the batch, while hanging. At first we think we've got margins getting wider at tops because frame heads were cut long, then we take a careful assessment of what's going on, and find the beveled edges have "crowns." Doors are wider at middle by as much as 1/8" as compared to one or both ends, and the reason is that whoever ran them across the edgebevel station in the doorshop wasn't using good technique.
So I call my lumberyard guy (he's the owner) that I'm dealing with on this, actually on another topic, and happen to mention that there is something he and I should look at together when he gets these back in his yard this week. He insists on knowing right then over the phone what's wrong.
So I tell him, and politely ask that he communicate this to the door jobber so that the replacements all get edgebeveled straight. I tell him they must be able to do it right, because some of the doors in the order were good.
He gets real pizzy about all this, and says that maybe he shouldn't proceed at all with the replacement order, because I'll likely find something wrong with the replacement slabs. I'm listening for the real message between the lines and it seems to be this: "I can't do business with you. You are too picky. At this point, anything I send you will get rejected."
What's wrong with asking for straight edges on expensive doors? I can get nice straight beveled lock stile edges on hollowcores. What's up with this guy?
I have consistent problems with prehung doors. There are three or four door service places around here that the lumberyards buy from, and they all seem to do mediocre work a lot of the time--hinges mortised to inconsistent depths, hinge screws stripped out in their holes, head jambs not consistently sized, lock prep oversized for the hardware, etc. etc. I'm pretty sure that for my next order I'm just getting slabs and jamb stock and will prehang them myself. I'm not sure what to tell customers when they are looking at sloppy hardware cuts... this is the best I can get, so you'd better accept it?
The doors you got are completely unworkable. If your lumberyard can't get it right then maybe ask to deal directly with the shop that does them (if it's not him).
The lumberyard guy is the dealer. The slabs are made by the manufacturer, Stallion Door. The wholesaler is the jobber that machines and preps the slabs, machines the jambs, prehangs, etc.
I simply have the wrong guy in the middle on this one. He was sloppy and careless about purchasing these, and is getting stuck with his mistake. He seems now to be taking the wrongheaded approach that whatever lapses in quality seen on the first batch, will reappear on the replacement batch, no matter what gets said to whom.
BTW, he recently upgraded his Porsche from a Boxter S to a Carerra 4.
Perhaps you should have placed your order at Home Depot!
Heheheheh
blue
Stinger, I would lit up, if I were you. That service, or lack thereof is unexcusable. If I were you I would be looking for a new yard. If the owner is not going to make any effort to take care of this issue then I would be MAD. In my experience it is the job of the yard to go and fight for you with the jobber. Your paying him and hes paying them, so its his problem period.
I hope it works out for you,
It sounds like your lumber yard guy just does'nt care. Now its becoming a PITA for him, maybe because this is'nt the first time. He would rather you take things the way they are. A lot of people might take the discount. I would press for 30% in that case.
If I were you I would get the new slabs un-mortised and do that part myself or you could really be screwed if the new mortise's are off. Then I would only tack up the casings and baseboard adjacent to them in case you have to tweak the jambs. You could finish nailing after the slabs are hung
stinger... i love my lumberyard and give them 90% of our business.. no questions asked..
on interior doors i only buy from my millwork dealer... in this case it's Horner Millwork
sounds like too many cooks spoiled the soup..
it also sounds like your lumberyard needs a big box down the street to convince them the new name of the game is SERVICE..
the big lumberyards in RI have refocused on contractors and service.. because they know the big boxes can't compete
your lumberyard owner needs a wakeup call.. why don't you send him over to BT ?
btw... this was a SPECIAL ORDER... everyone up and down the food chain should have been covering their asz.. but no one did....
as they were comming off the truck.. did you know then they were the wrong pattern .. or only realize it later ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
They slipped into the job when I wasn't there. I phoned them immediately upon seeing the mistake.
I cannot buy directly from the jobber. He is two and a half hours away and only sells through dealers.
I have shown them the slabs, and they can plainly see that about a third of the order exhibits the rollover at the ends. It is 3/32 inch, and plainly seen, moreso when the doors are in frames.