I am not in the construction trades/business. I am a lifelong do it yourselfer and a woodworker. I want to change the configuration of my ranch house, changing the front entrance facade, changing the front roof design in the process. I also am considering gutting the interior to completely change the layout so I can add a second bathroom and improve the flow. There are other changes as well. In short, I’m considering some significant modifications. What I do NOT want to do is to screw up the architecture of the home. The remodel must make sense from an architectural perspective. I want to have a craftsman look as much as it will make sense. The problem I have and my question is, how do you go about finding a qualified, competent architect to work with? I don’t want to open up the phone book and pick one out based only on the fact that the architect is local. I want somebody who I can depend on, somebody competent to work with. How do I accomplish finding a good architect?
Jeff
Replies
Since you want an Bungalow/Craftsman look you might start with arch/designers that sepecialize in that area.
American Bungalow magazine has such ads in it.
They also have a website with links for resources including arch and designers.
I mentioned designers as a lot of residential design is done by people that are not registered architects. It partial depends on the type of work and the local laws.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I'd second the design person. I don't think you need an architect.
I'd check the listings at http://www.notsobighouse.com/listings/index.cfm?fuseaction=cListing.displaySearch
You can search for builders or residential designers or architects and most will have websites with examples of their work. (I'm in there, it's affordable and the leads I get are looking for quality work)
M
------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
That was the advice I was looking for. Many thanks!
take your budget ... then add 20%.
'cause that's what the architect is gonna charge ... on the low end.
and now add 20% ... because that's how low the architect is gonna underbid your dream remodel.
or ... find a good local remodeling GC and/or a design build firm that'll take your ideas and make them work in a realistic ... buildable ... budget.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Jeff, Jeff, Jeff ...
20%? You're talking to the wrong architects ;o)
and some of us get the estimates pretty close --
To the OP Jeff - check with your state/local AIA website which is often broken down into categories. Check with the local building department - they'll often not want to give an 'official' endorsement but maybe 'off the record' - also plans on file are in the public record - you can OPRA request them to see who does a lot of local filing.
Jeff
(3 Jeffs on thread)
Edited 12/22/2007 7:55 am ET by Jeff_Clarke
Hi Guys:
All the advise is good, but I was feeling left out so wanted to jump in.
Jeff #4
that'd be nice ... but that's pretty much what I've run into.
might just be wrong types of projects with wrong people?
anyways ... with 3 ... and now 4 different Jeff's in the same thread ...
I'm sure with our brain-trust working together ... for good ...
we'll get to the bottom of things!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I'll second Jeff Buck. Most residential architects have a hard enough time getting the detailing right. Very few can get a budget anywhere near accurate.
Jeff, your 20 and then 20 statement re architect's cost is hyperbole to an even greater degree than my throwoff line in the Kapex thread here, about $600 Stabila level price premiums.
Right there in your home town, my bro got an archy to design him a total house makeover like we are talking about here in this thread, and it sure as heck wasn't no 20/20. Probably more like 5 and zero.
See it here http://banburylane.blogspot.com/
aside from missing my point about hiring a design / build firm to better keep on top of the costs ... who care's if your brother had it work once.
is he a GC or a home owner?
I'm wondering how many times he's been the bad guy while explaining that Yes, what someone drew "can" be built ...
it can't be buiit for anywhere close to the budget they gave the archy.
I'm small time ... but I have been the one put in that situation more than one time.
thru the years I've had contact with an archy around 10 times ...
still waiting to build that first project with one.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Gotta learn to leave the drivers seat for that to happen.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Jeff, my bro is a homeowner acting as his own GC for that job of his.
Seeking to have an architect-designed house done in 1998, I was quoted 6 percent of costs by two different AIA archies in the midwest, as a fee for doing a full set of plans and specs, totally custom.
That fee did not include the full service of having it bid out, then all the on site things that they do for a "full service" job. Both architects had fine reps, and walked me through completed projects they had done that had characteristics to match those I wanted. One of them had had a plan he had done for a wealthy client, make the cover of Architectural Digest.
Go here http://www.salaarc.com/publications/SALA%20Residential%20Brochure.pdf and see what one of the best firms doing residential architecture in the upper midwest charges.
Sala's "between 10 and 18 percent" is lower than your 20, and with things the way they are right now in residential building, I'll bet if you were to shop around in western PA, you could do better than what Sala is saying.
With framing lumber now at 19 percent lower than its peak when things were going crazy, and the kinds of subbed work such as drywall lower (as discussed in this thread), now is the time to build at lower costs, and to sign on with an architect at a likely lower rate.
"
Go here http://www.salaarc.com/publications/SALA%20Residential%20Brochure.pdf and see what one of the best firms doing residential architecture in the upper midwest charges."
That would be the firm Sarah Susanka (author, "Not So Big House) help found.
IF you are getting the bids close, you are in a very exclusive club.I've worked with many architects who are great to collaborate with and are good at design..but they are bad at pricing and very poorly set up the clients expectations.I think Buck's 20% is optimistic. How about a a job, architect estimated at 500,000 that came in at 800,000 + or one that estimated at 300,000 that came in at 550,000 and up. And why should they be good at estimating, that's not where they have experience at. These guys are considered among the best in our cityWhere architects screw up is they still want to believe in the 3 bid myth. Bring in the GC from the start. Architects tend to spec materials form companies that court them the most. Usually the highest priced stuff. if you sit down with the GC from the start you can help "value engineer" the project and do a much better job of managing the clients expectationsDo architects enjoy delivering GC bids to the client that are much higher than the original estimate? I guess it doesn't bother them, they can always blame it on the GC. <g>
Barry E-Remodeler
I work closely with architects in residential and commercial projects. I generally see fees at about 12% of construction (for projects over 400k). That does not include developing measured as-builts, engineering, and limits the amount of construction administration and site visits. Also, don't expect many (or any) extensive interior elevations or designs of interior spaces (kitchen design or built-ins). Building sections would be limited to those needed for understanding the structural considerations.If you expect endless design iterations or go back and make changes out of phase then that will increase fees as well.Being an average, I've had fees as low as 6% and as high at 30%, and the client has a lot to do with controlling those fees. If you know what you want in terms of functionality, don't change the program, and communicate closely with the architect then you stand a chance of coming in in a predictable way.One way to work is to contract hourly for the schematic design phase and then have the architect provide a fixed cost for the design development and construction documents (since the design is fixed at that point the architect has something real to price). The for construction administration have a set number of on-site meetings/telephone consultations built into the contract.Yes, if you have a GC you are going to work with, then bring him in early.
Seth -
Your post is right on. I would say, however, that a better place to change from an hourly to fixed fee is after completion of the design documents, with stipulations about any changes in scope. Many people ask for modifications extending to multiple alternatives that can protract the design phase beyond a fixed point. Once the design is set it is much more reasonable to fix a fee for the production of contract documents.
The best arrangement is one that does not require frequent modification.
Jeff
Edited 12/26/2007 9:22 am ET by Jeff_Clarke
I've rarely read anything more obsurd. As another poster said, if what you say is true, you're talking to the wrong people and probably have been for quite a while.
Runnerguy
"I've rarely read anything more obsurd"
keep reading ... I'll probably have more.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I interviewed designers, design/build firms and architects. In our case we settled on an architect because she "clicked" best with us. Whoever you get definately needs the "chops" to do a sensitive seamless design, but you also need someone you can trust and who really listens to you (rarer than you might expect).
Some architects will just do the design; ours worked with us through punch list sign-off (she approved each phase before I cut the check). It was nice to have the interface and oversight when needed. I made my living designing / building / remodeling for 6 years so I know more than most home owners; still felt the extra cost was worth it.
I did a combo of phone book and talking to everyone I knew.
Any new homes/additions/renovations you like, stop and ask the owner. Many people are enthusiastic about talking about their own house, and show it when someone else is appreciative. They can also provide another perspective you won't get from a website.
As others have said, it sounds like you don't necessarily need an architect. A design/build firm might fit the bill just as well.
If going the architect route, find a firm that specializes in homes and check out their website (usually under 'projects'). There's lots of building types (health care, education, retail, etc.). Residential work is a specialty, and many firms don't do it.
And i'd use the phone book rather than the AIA website. Being an AIA member is no guarantee of ability. It simply means you're a member. Many good firms aren't necessarily listed through the AIA, just as there's no guarantee you won't find a mediocre firm on the AIA site either. It's not good or bad, just limits your choices.
The way you describe it, I'd just rather build a new one elsewhere. Probably be more cost effective. Unless you really just like your current location... and the area will support than kind of $$ spent on improvments.
What you need to do is find out who has done sensitive additions/remodeling jobs in your area. If you see a house going through one, get out of the car, walk up to the door and talk to the owner. If the house is not livable and no one lives there yet, go to the county and look up the property records.
You're going to need someone local however. Someone who understands the area as well as the local building department.
Like any profession, there are great architects/designers and there are lousy ones and it's going to be a little bit of a chore finding one that's right for you. As a previous poster mentioned, you need to find one that "clicks" with you. Get one that does the work you are looking for. Often,
I am an architect that has made a career of housing remodeling and new design. Having been doing it for so long, I look for that "click" in a client and if it isn't there, I'll pass. Every successful job is probably more dependant on the owner for success then on the designer.
The very best of luck.
Runnerguy
1) word of mouth
2) a lot of good architects dispaly at the local home and garden shows.
3) check with your local AIA (American Institute of Architects) for a listing of firms specializing in residential.
4) check back issues of Fine Homebuilding for houses featured in your region etc.
Most importantly find someone you feel comfortable working with, has a solid portfolio (doesn't matter how big it is, look for quality of work) ask to visit completed work. And speak with contractors or builders they architect has worked with.
What region do you live? I might be able to offer some references.
I'd suggest the best source for finding architects that are appropriate is to first find the contractors that are likely candidates for your project and find out who they have worked with successfully. You'll probably get the most professional opinions from local contractors, as they know who are realistic and professional to work with. (BTW, 20% sounds pretty high to me, especially for a substantial project.)
Why don't you post a picture of your house, and maybe a sketch of what you are thinking of?
Somebody here will have an idea, we're full of them.
Joe H
Why don't you post a picture of your house, and maybe a sketch of what you are thinking of?
I heartily second that suggestion.
It's Christmas time. It's also slow in the building business, both economically and seasonally. So there's a lot of talent and experience hanging out on this board, just waiting to kick a project like yours around for a day or two.
You might just come up with an excellent design and a pretty tight budget figure, all in one swell foop.
"Breaktime! Your one swell foop site for custom design."
Try the AIBD, they have a search page for designers
http://www.aibd.org/
From a residential architect of 30 years:
I agree with some of the other posts about many architects do not really having a good handle on residential costs. Probably the root of the problem is pinning down a cost when there is still a blank sheet of paper on the table. At that stage the only thing to go by is the cost per square foot which is a slippery slope. I always tell my clients that trying to attach a cost per SF for a house early on is like trying to buy a car by the pound.
The best I can do with an empty page in front of me is put forth a number that will get a fair amount of quality but the house won't be gold plated. Here in the mid Atlantic area that is now about $150/SF, sticks and bricks with no builders fee. That can get hardiplank siding with Azek trim, decent windows, cabinets, decent interior trim package, etc. Of course we can get the price down to about $87/SF if we go basic (production builders stuff) everywhere. Conversly, we can go up to $400/SF if everything's top of the line. But $150 is a realistic ballpark number.
I know these numbers are accurate by making a point to keep abreast of costs on all my projects as well as I'm currently in the middle of building my own house (the third in 20 years).
And of course, as I said above, these figures don't include the builders fee.
The "design the house and then get the builder" approach may be dangerous with many architects because costs may not be realistic. But then again the "get a design/build builder and build it" is equally dangerous because most (but not all I've found) builders really aren't all that creative. My own neighborhood is a "teardown" neighborhood and the two ugliest rebuilds where produced by former carpenters who are now "design/build". And the costs of good design and bad design are identical.
The approach I like is one where I'm working with a client and a builder from the very beginning. That way the odds of producing a creative solution within the budget are extremely good. Either talk to a builder and get architect recommendations he's actually worked with or the oher way around and get both on board. My point being let each party do what he does best and you really can't miss.
Runnerguy
"Here in the mid Atlantic area that is now about $150/SF, sticks and bricks with no builders fee."
Not in this Mid-Atlantic area! That's low.
Jeff
Ok, I'll get more specific. I'm talking about mid Atlantic United States, specifically, Maryland.
I've got three houses now going up with fairly high quality stuff like I mentioned in my post as well as building my own house. $150/SF for sticks and bricks is reality here for above average but not gold plated quality. Why would you think I posted that number if I was seeing checks written (or writing checks myself for that matter) that would reflect a different amount??
Runnerguy
Don't know but we're only a few hundred miles away and I haven't seen anything like $150/SF for more than five years.
Jeff
That's wierd. I looked at your profile and saw you hail from NJ so we really all aren't that far apart. One factor may be the economy. I'm talking about current prices. For example, in 2005 we'd expect to pay around 11K to drywall a 3000 SF house. A price on a house I designed of that size was 9K and it was a very high quality job. Same with prefinished HW flooring installed. A while back it was $10/SF. Now it's around $8/SF.
So maybe it's partly economy and partly geography.
Runnerguy
Well you also said 'without the builder's fee' - around here most do not work on a Cost-Plus basis so it's a little hard to relate. IMO SF cost records should reflect Total Contract Cost*/Total SF
We use $150/SF for budgeting heavy renovation costs.
Jeff
*excluding permits, landscaping etc.
jeff100
I really feel for architects,
After 4 years of college most have sizeable student loans when they get out and they are often started at wages that McDonalds pays (and they are happy to get the job)
The great ones have their own twist or approach to design and some of those ideas actaully work and make sense (cost is another issue completely) Anything else isn't so much design as drafting and site management..
Most people want designs right out of some design book only changed enough to be personalized. That's an awfull lot of education for what basically amounts to drafting work..
More like 6-8 years of college now. Many states require a master's degree to sit for the exams (licensure). And that extra couple of years easily matches or doubles the cost for the first degree.
frenchy, thanks for the concern but I hope the kids coming out right now aren't so naive as to think that they will be looking at 6figures once they're out there. And they also have to do a 3year internship program under a registered architect which is very specific...and then they get to take the registration test....and that test ain't easy. Oh, most college programs are now 5years. (I grandfathered into the profession).
Some of the thinking that goes to the architect vs designer proposal on this thread is very valid but..... Most of the local (Northern Ohio) communities around here require an architect for any residential submission. I'll grant you or anyone that there are really good residential designers all over the country who can do the job. The legal reasoning (?) is that an architect is responsible(legally...and for 15years after) for the "public health and safety" issues in the construction and will be more considerate to these things. Sometimes true, sometimes not. If I can't visualize the entire project then I believe it can't be built. This is everything from the layout to the structural framing to the final finishes. But that's me.
I need to close this. I get on my high horse and someone's going to take a shot a me. Sounds like the original post has some interesting ideas for his home.
ciao, ted
dirtyturk,
My BIL is an architect and he informs me of them difficulty that even great students have getting started.. That is a real tradgedy because most firms will do several hires for one position down the road and maybe 30 or 100 hires for one partnership. The rest are just cannon fooder (my words not his)
He was extremely successfull and quickly became a partner with a major firm. Yet he walked away from the partner ship without a backward glance after decade for a better deal.. Unlike law partnerships there can be major liabity issues decades afterwards and the insurance required to protect partners can cost more than the partnership pays..
Requirements vary drastically from state to state for the need of a architect. I was able to build my place with nothing more than sketches on notebook paper. (no training whatsoever!) To say this place is a radicle departure from the norm is a massive understatement. Yet nothing more than some crude sketches was all that was required to get the building permit. Any area where there was even the slightest potential of structural question I double checked several referance books and casually mentioned them to my BIL.
This was in a very upscale metro area where houses are placed extremely close together..
I think you're basically right but as in most professions, one has to rise above the masses in order to taste success, be it starting their own firm or assuming leadership responsibilities within an existing firm.
I don't know if my experience is typical or not but after graduating architecture school and doing the intern thing with another architect, I started my own firm in 1980 (I know. I picked a great year to start). Zero work to start. I just up and quit my existing job, rented an office space and started knocking on doors.
By 1982 I had exceeded my previous annual salary (but I was working a lot harder) but by 1985 I was making 10 times as much and back to normal hours and by 1991 it was very high and that year there was a building slowdown.
Regarding fees, I found a niche market with mostly production builders. While technically an architect, I was actually half architect and half marketing consultant. Builders would look to me to find ways to improve product or create new product that would respond best to the market......getting the most out of each square foot they are building. It's an area where cost and buildability are always the overriding concern but at the same time wanting to visually appeal to the buyer. One has to create houses that work, look great and are practical to build.
One thing that seperated us from the guy who did one of a kind houses was we were able to stop marketing. Most builders that came to us became repeat clients in a long term relationship.
The fees would be in the $10K to $14K range per unit and a typical program might be three or four units(design and permit drawings). This may seem hefty but there were no repeat fees so a moderately sized builder could amortize that cost over dozens of houses in different locations.
I sold to my partner in 1999. We had 18 employees at that point and I decided I was spending too much time doing administrating type stuff. Since then it's been just me working out of my house.
So, if a person can "breakout", one can make a go of it. Really no different then the nail banger becoming a good GC with his name on the door.
Runnerguy
runnerguy,
Good for you! Nice to hear success stories..
That lack of repeat fees would bother me.. as would the field in general.. (with regard to most housing and a lot of commercial). The only time skill more basic than drafting is required is in calculating proper strength of materials. The rest as you discovered is marketing..
Many homes are built using nothing more than prepared plans right out of some plan book.. and I had access to several class mates of my daughter offering to do drafting for me for slightly more than Mc Donald wages. Yet I was allowed to build using nothing more than rough sketches..