what are you using for window sills
alwaysoverbudget
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
around here the only premade window sill material is finger jointed junk. i swear i think some of it’s rotten when they finger joint it. and it’s only 10.00 a ft.!
so i bought some cedar and made my own, as i need about 10 windows worth [60′]
i looked around for some 1.5 aztec type material,couldn’t find any. treated would be good,but i need to buy some and let it dry for a year or so.
so what are you using? is there someone that sells good window sill?
the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
Replies
My last job I used some Aztec and glued it together for thicker pieces. Seems to have worked great
Used to use a trex type product, but the pieces are thinner now
well took my shopmade cedar sills over today and they weren't going to work so i gave it a shot with a pvc product [come from lowes,don't know brand] worked out real well and should last.
the only problem i have is today all i needed was 1" so i was good to go. when i need 1.1/4 or 1.5 do you just face glue them and then start cutting from there?
can a guy run this stuff in a planer? thanks
the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
Edited 8/11/2009 8:17 pm by alwaysoverbudget
yeah, I just glued to pieces together with PVC glue and clamped them. Next time I may try the glue that aztec has and see what the difference is.
Barry E-Remodeler
Azek glue doesn't yellow over time. That is the main difference, performance wise. It's weird stuff. I think it is water based. Doesn't smell that bad. Seems fairly harmless. Then you get some on your skin and about a minute later it starts to really burn.... If I remember correctly, it has a longer working time.
Been doing good with Trex. It's only an inch tho'. Anything thicker I use hampster cedar or walnut here.
I'm rebuilding a slew of windows on an 1830 Greek revival, all the 4" THICK sills are walnut, nary a rotten spot.
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"I use hampster cedar "???Is that the shavings you get at the same pet store where you get hamsters?
You know - in five pound bags for bedding ?
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I was avoiding confusing with WRC. This is a Juniper I think, closet cedar like a hampster smell, It never rots here.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Nothing like the smell of hamsters on a hot August morning I always say.;)Is it gnarly to work with or straight grained like nice WRC?
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I have both, some is clear for the 9' lengths I have, some is almost rustic cabin knotty.The guy here was sawing 22" wide trees..I mean some seriously nice wood. So I got about 500 BF for my flooring at 1" thick, and a bunch at 2" and 3" ...thick for just for the heck of it.I just made a threshold outta some , and it's a dream to work with, but I really hate the smell.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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I remember you cutting that lumber now.I mostly use red cedar on exterior sills myself. Sometimes some good dense SYP I have.
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Sphere
Is this what you are talking about?
We call it eastern red cedar.
Piffin had me thinking about hamster OSB made from "used" hamster bedding.
Rich
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Thats the stuff, goes by lots a names around here. great for fence posts and to get BIG it takes a LONG time.
Gonna make a great floor, and keep the fleas away.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Interesting. We always called that aromatic cedar, the closet cedar, unless it's not the same stuff. They used to use that for fence posts and even fondation pilings. I once dug up a piling on a Victorian porch out of the stuff and it was perfectly intact, the house was built in the 1880's.Speaking of rot resistant wood, you ever try using black locust for any woodworking or trim? I never have and it just struck me as a possibility. Seems to me it might be so friggin hard & narley that it wouldn't be worth it. I know they use them for fence posts and they last & last. We have a large one overhanging the front of our house. A rather messy tree and hell on a chainsaw.
Jer
We always called that aromatic cedar
We use that term too for Eastern Red Cedar.
I will have to check it out for exterior use.
Rich
Technically it's Juniperus virginiana. Nice stuff, I always liked to sniff the little boxes and such made of it at Stuckys.
And you can make bathtub gin from the little blue berries too.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Walnut?! Exterior?! I had no idea...I just assumed it wasn't right.
Yea, walnut is awesome rot wise. And bugs. The same juglans that kills plants and gives you euphoria while working it is the key.The cedar is aromatic, it is the same stuff. But like I said it takes a long time to get to sawtimber size. It can be as knotty as anything when smaller, but as it ages it gets clear on the outer bole and is sweet stuff.Locust is great, but just not worth dinking with mostly, it gets full of inclusions and cjhecks as it gets older and larger, and carp ants will love it. I have a big stand of it for firewood and that is one of it's best uses.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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This old mill was restored a short while back. The original walnut siding was paper thin after no paint for 150 years, so it was resided with walnut again. I think the new stuff isn't the same quality as the old, but it's holding up pretty good.I took my boys there once, stopped to look at a map in the little burg, and a huge policeman strolls up to see if he could help. My middle son says "I smell bacon" when he walks up to the window. That comment wasn't to funny to him. Kids say the darndest things. I thought I was going to get a retaliation ticket or something after that.http://www.bearsmill.com/
seems like pressure treated wood , KDAt type as mentioned above, would be the choice.
The 1830 greek revival here is all poplar siding. Still good mostly.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Any Cypress around there?
interior or exterior?
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I use resawn white oak from discard pallets.
Durham rockhard to fill the occasional nail hole.
Finish with good stuff from my pre-1990 stash of Watco. Sometime poly coat
edited- hit the 'p' to write poly and it posted?
Edited 8/10/2009 5:58 pm ET by junkhound
I've had posts go off half coked like that before with no consistent reason
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I've picked through framing lumber to find relatively knot-free tight-grained Doug Fir. IMO most available cedar these days is so soft and punky that it prolly won't last any longer than the DF.
I would even consider looking for sill stock at a salvager to find nice old tight-grained DF.
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the cedar i have been using i call "white cedar" it is very soft and i'm not sure it's much better than a pc of pine. seems like a lot of guys here are using red cedar "aromatic" i can get some around here but it's pretty high $ has to be shipped in . runs about 4. a bd ftthe older i get ,
the more people tick me off
I like using KDAT PT lumber. Fairly readily available here. I can bet #2 or even get it in #1, 1x?, 5/4x6, 2x4, 2x6, 2x8, etc.. I'm guessing it may not be as available elsewhere because I don't see other people talking about it on BT. Befinately not available west of the mississippi I would imagine.
so whats different about this kdat,is it dried after it's treated?the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
KDAT (Kiln Dried After Treating) lumber been dried twice. Once before treating, once after treating. So the boards are bone dry when you get them. The lumber yard even stores it inside. BTW - the wood is SYP. Holds paint much better than regular PT. Doesn't twist/bow/warp/check nearly as much - actually not hardly at all as long as it is either installed fairly quickly and painted, or stored under cover prior to use.
It is also sometimes call "re-dried" or even just "dry".
On the house in the attached pics the porch railings and columns are mostly KDAT lumber. Some of the trim is PVC as you can see in the "unpainted" pic. The window sills are KDAT. I ripped and routed the sills out of 2x material. My idea was to build a house that looks to the casual observer like it has been there for a 100 years. I honestly believe it will be there for at least another hundred years. It is an Energy Star house so I think it will use 1/2 the energy of a hundred year house.
Some guys above said they use pine for exterior trim. I chose to be polite and and give my opinion on that. The way people maintain their houses these days, pine will make great job security for carpenters.
"The way people maintain their houses these days, pine will make great job security for carpenters."
Yup.
Jeff
I've had good luck with redwood in a couple of cases. Of course, these days you might as well just use bars of gold instead.
Many old California homes have well preserved clear heart redwood exterior sills of 2X6 dimensions or thereabouts. They take and hold paint well in that climate.
Mahogany is a good option.
"Shawdow boxing the appoclipse and wandering the land"
Wier/Barlow
i've been use'n my stash of 3x14 heart pine drops... have a pallet or so of 3-5ft ers
I love work'n that 200yo stuff... smells just like it was grow'n yesterday...
no clue what i'd use if i had to go buy something
p
I use Red Cedar 2x stock, have had very good results.
I believe Mike Smith has a system of using 2x trex stock; think there is a thread wwith some pix somewhere, try search or a message to him.
Bing
Bing
I believe I read in the literature on composites that they were not supposed to be painted.
I have used it at least twice where I painted it. Once on a top railing on a 2nd story railing. It's still holding paint.
And once when I had to trim a window that was literally in a flower box.
Don't know how that is holding up
Rich
I believe I read in the literature on composites that they were not supposed to be painted.
Composites and cellular PVC (they are different, but not in an obvious way) do not require painting, but the ones I've seen like Trex (a composite) and Azek (PVC) do say that they can be painted.
Don
I was speaking about composites (Trex and Rhino).
I thought it odd that the literature would mention "not painting composites". I my case it was Rhino board.
We use PVC for the express use of painting the project, although it can be left unpainted. It didn't work very well on the last project to brush it. Paint just pulled and left a ugly brush marks.
Rich
It should be noted that plywood, OSB, hardboard, and even fiber-cement board are all "composites". It's a term that's so general that you can't really generalize about it.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Around here sills are mostly cast stone or concrete. Not very many new unbricked homes are built here.
If you have the room, it's a good idea to get some PT and just throw it in a corner of the shed or garage. Whenever I find a piece that's straight and has good grain structure I always pick it up and add it to my little pile of PT that's drying out. I have stuff that has been under roof for over 6 years now and if it's a good piece, it's perfect for something like an exterior window sill.
Black walnut is what I use.. decay resistant and really nice to work with.
However you could also use white oak.. Both are cheap, don't add potential poisons and will look good with a simple coat or 2 of varnish..
Like PT you need to use special nails/screws in order to prevent rust and decay..
i think i'll give your deal a shot,get me a dozen 2x8? maybe screw them together with air space between each other and let them dry for a year.
then i would have something when i needed it and the cost would be very reasonable. and if they twist all up,i'll just have some trailer boards.
hmm,maybe i could just go rob some of my trailer floor............................the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
I think there's a big demand for fixing rotted window sills
I think they are all over the place and when a house sells, the inspector writes it up, and the fight is on.
The Buyer wants a new window and the Seller only wants to repair the old one.
You've also got to consider that It's hard to find anyone to replace a window sill
I've never done it before
Is it difficult to cut out the old window sill and get the new one in place and make it look like it's supposed to?
I think there's a lot of opportunity for someone to do this
mr fix
The Buyer wants a new window and the Seller only wants to repair the old one.
Sounds like a rock and a hard place type of business.
Rich
there not terrible to replace,start with a 8" blade on a recip saw and start cutting nails lose at each jamb. usually the interior window sill has some finish nails attached.
i like to have a 4" grinder with a thin cutoff blade to cut nails. i just got that multi tool from hf,seems like it would be great if the blades would take it.
try to get the old one out in 1 or 2 pcs so you can use as template.the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
I use TREX 2x6. Non-stock item in some places, and needs to be run thru the planner to get it square.
I don't run trex or choice deck thru my planer, no thank you. I make water tables and sills all with tablesaw rips and or carbide router bits.I have seen and can show you bits of steel in the matrix, it's ok for the odd jointer pass or two, but planer knives ? Nope. Knives for oldest and still favorite planer ( an AH-115 combo jointer, Ryobi, circa 1985) are hard to find and around here, hard to get sharpened.Maybe with the new Dewalt and disposable blades I MIGHT , but as a rule, no plywood or composites will see my Planers.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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I have the DeWalt with the 12" blades that I resharpen with a set of Makita stones. The metal in the Trex is aluminum. I have run hundreds of feet of Trex thru my planner and have not got any damage to the blades. Heart Pine produces more wear on the blades than Trex.
Good to know it was alum. I didn't chance it.Agreed Hpine is nasty on tools. And Hemlock knots too.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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If you dig out one of the pieces you will find that they are paper thin. I was wondering about the metal flakes especially after seeing the process of how they make Trex quite a few years ago, post consumer material is scanned with magnets, so I wondered how metal would get in the product. Aluminum.
Hey, silver won't stick to magnet....we could be rich!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Hey, keep it quiet! That's what it is. Look for the yellow tinted pieces.
Spanish cedar makes a really nice sill. Rarely bleeds (unlike swietienia).
Jeff
Rarely bleeds?Spanish cedar bleeds like a stuck pig... I have planks in my shop that look like they're auditioning for the role of siding in The Shining...-t
Izzat the same as cigar box cedar? Just wondering. I see some limited use in lutherie parts and was curious. I doubt I've had much hands on of it , knowingly.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Yeah - that's the only spanish cedar I know of - and in fact mine is left over from when I was making cigar humidors.It smells great (reminds me of cigars... ) but it has pitch pockets like no one's business. You've got to get the worst of them out or they'll glue the cigars together! Lovely stuff to work with - very soft, finely grained, easy on the tooling and a spicy but mild smell. It also lasts for decades at 70% humidity!-t
Ok, yeah, I've used it. I 'think' Takamine made acoustic guitar sides and backs in one line of that. S'posed to be an excellent tone wood.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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All the exterior standing and running trim on our house is Spanish cedar - no pitch pockets at all. Hasn't bled after two years + and holds paint really well.
Jeff
Edited 8/12/2009 9:27 am ET by Jeff_Clarke