What can I do about white vinyl windows?
d2v
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
I’m buying a house that has many 5X5 windows (out of which is a stunning view) that are white vinyl inside. (The exterior trim is dark green). I know they are “low e” — and I expect they are very good quality, but I don’t know much about them. There are some casement, some awning, and some picture. I don’t like the look of white around interior windows — I believe it stops they eye from the view while a dark surround pulls the eye through. I’d also greatly prefer wood trim. Am I stuck with the white? Can I paint? Any way I can get wood trim?? Thanks for any help you can give this new user!
Replies
Deb, I've seen wood veneered vinyl windows factory made and DIYers. both seemed to work out fairly well. all you need is a utility knife, self-adhering veneer and patience. :-)
Miami
Thanks -- that's an option that hadn't occurred to me.
Deb, let us know what you do; whether it works or not. We can all learn either way :-)
Miami
Thanks, all -- I'll give the veneer a try. I'll let you know how it comes out --- but don't hold your breath, I'm slow as molasses.
I hope you weren't holding your breath -- but I finally dealt with my white vinyl windows. You asked me to let you know how they came out. Since the walls are very thick, I was able to build faux windows to fit right over the vinyl ones -- they are fastened only to the jambs, nothing is nailed or screwed to the window. It took 200 separate pieces of wood to do it, and I still have to do the casing, but it sure changes the character of the room!! Attached are some pics.
Wow Deb, nice work! Congratulations on solving the common white vinyl problem.
With work like that you need to be posting here more often.
The follies which a man regrets the most in his life are those which he didn't commit when he had the opportunity. [Helen Rowland]
Deb that is gorgeous. Did you use veneer on the sash? How did you attach it? Degloss followed by what kind of adhesive? Details please!
Nice work... Very nice. Details please..
Here fishy fishy....
Details:
I first made what looks like a picture frame for each window -- a faux sash that is 13/16ths thick, with a profile piece attached to the edge. The reason I used such thick wood is that I have miles of rough 1X6 fir, and the windows are so deep that I couldn't get out to the wall if I made the jambs from the 1X6. I needed a full 6".
The profile piece, with a 1/8" reveal, is different for stationary windows vs. the ones that open. For the stationary ones, the piece is 3/8 thick. For the windows that open it is 5/8. These pieces, when attached to the "sash", mirror the profile of the vinyl - so that the "sash" sits flat on the broadest part of the vinyl. Attached is a picture of a bunch of these frames, getting a coat of finish. As you can see, I had to cut out for the cranks and levers; that is the only 'iffy' part of this project, as the finger-room is a little scant.
The piece of vinyl that is closest to the glass is only about 1/8" thick; my profile piece sits on top of it (in the stationary windows), so I don't lose any glass.
I then made the jamb-extension boxes. I nailed the frames to the boxes from the back (I made a bunch of blocks the width of the reveal for each type window). Then the whole unit went into the window and I shimmed up to the 2X8 studs around the window, and nailed them in.
The final thing is another square frame for each of the windows that open; this frame fits into the "L" shaped vinyl frame that holds the glass in the ones that open. I called these pieces the travelers, since they travel with the window when it opens. (I haven't attached these yet -- it is still a bit nippy for open windows here. I'd appreciate any advice for what to use to hold these in; I was thinking contact cement.)
I had some problems fitting some of the windows, especially the largest, which is a 5'X5' picture. The window was installed so that it bows so much I'm surprised the glass didn't break. For this one I found a piece with a natural bow for the faux sash piece (the profile is thin enough to bend); I planed the middle of this piece on the interior side before attaching it to the jamb box.
I'll have to make new screens before mosquitoe season, as the old ones don't fit, of course.
Thanks for asking for details; it was a heck of a lot of work & it is nice somebody appreciates it.
Now for the casing ....
-- Deb
THANKS....
The glaze on the vynal will repulse any glue that you'd want to use. Think in terms of PVC pipe. Wash the vynal with lac thinner or similar. Work from top to bottom. While the vynal is still tackey use a urathane based adhesive like PL. Press / roller your trim on and pin with a 23gauge pinner for clamping. 18 if you got it, 15/16ga and they have a tendacy to show too much and look like they don't belong there. To view a cross section of a vynal frame there is plenty for the pins to grab. If you set the pins counter angled to each other they will hold even better. Watch the lenghth of your pins and direction of travel / set. About 3/8 to 5/8" plus the thinkness of your material will be plenty.
I did some windows about year or so ago with standard vaneer (3/32"?) Mother nature (UV) killed it in no time. It looked okay but yours are so much nicer. Richer. Now I know how to resolve what didn't work too well.
Note: Practice on a window that that doesn't matter too much.
Deb those windows look good...
Here fishy fishy....
There is another reply to this posting running around here some place. Have no idea where it went. Similar to the one you see....
Here fishy fishy....
What's really impressive was your ability to find your original post from Nov '02!
By the way, your windows look great.
I just searched for "white vinyl" -- it came right up!
Thanks for the good words, all.
Deb,
Great job.. Ya gotta any business cards ya want us to pass out?
Nice work.
And thanks again for coming back and sharing with us the results and the description of how you did it. Not often we hear the full story.
What do you have in mind for the casings?Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Well, I was just searching Breaktime for help on casing. I want an Arts & Crafts or Craftsman style -- and I've had my heart set on a continuous header around the room. The problem there is that the door jambs are about 1-1/4" higher than the window jambs I just put in -- but I think a fill piece above the windows will look OK.
I have been pondering and pondering on he dimensions for the casing -- I've been thinking about 4-1/4" for the side casing, and wider -- but I don't know how much wider -- for the header. I want the header to be proud of the side casing; the thickest stock I've got for the header would be 7/8"; the rest is 13/16ths, which can be planed down if the 1/16th reveal isn't enough. Seems from the pictures I've studied (Greene & Greene, mostly) that the thickness diminishes as you go down the wall -- so that the baseboard, although wide, ends up being fairly thin.
Your thoughts?? About dimensions for the casing, whether a continuous header will work with jambs of differing height, and, if so, what the fill piece should look like. Thanks!!
Deb, how about stepping out at the window head casing area. Run your 1-1/4" Pre-head casing, then go out and over it with the "header" you have running around the room. It will add definition to the window's, deal with the differing heights and give you a slightly thicker head, that you want the side casings to die into.
maybe.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Sounds intriguing, but I guess I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "stepping out." Do you think the sub-header should be the same thickness as the side casings? I'm imagining you mean that the subheader might have a step in it -- that is, start out closer to the jamb and end up flat with the side casings, under the header????
Thanks!
Maybe.
If I understand, you want a horizontal band running around the room at the height of the door head casing. The difference being at the windows which are lower. You need to fill the space that differs in the window head casing.
I'm suggesting you first install the fill pc at the window head. Then run your head casing band around the room. When you get to the window, you will run into that first pc. I propose you wrap in front of (over) that pc. Not up and over, but out and over. The horizontal band would step out into the room and over that first fill pc.
If I'm still not explaining this properly, I'll check back in the a.m. and post a sketch (that should really confuse you).
Sorry for being so bad with words.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I get it. You mean sort of like a valence that you could put a curtain rod, or even a light, behind. I've seen craftsman style houses done like that. Good suggestion -- I'll see how it looks.
Well, I didn't mean a valance but the idea is interesting. I just meant to apply directly to the first fill peice. It would add another dimension to the head casing.........double thick band at the windows. But hey, you've done damn good thus far, show us the finish.......and the best of luck.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Nice job Deb. Great solution to a tricky problem.
that's an interesting idea. How would you make the transition from single to double thickness?? Just put it up there like a header, but on top of the other? Might be nice.
exactly deb, put up the first pc, with the usual reveal on the head jamb (over the windows). Then run the door head band that you're taking around the room and run up to and over that first pc. You are in effect triming (wrapping) that first pc with the band. Since the jamb head of the window is 1-1/4" lower than the door..........that head band will reveal about 1-1/4" of the first pc you put up. That's what I meant by stepping the band at the windows. I've attempted to explain this so many times and fumble every time. I'm not sure I even like the idea. Mock one up, who knows.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Calvin,
I don't know if I'd like it either, but I bet I would. It sounds like a great idea to me.
I even understood it on your second to the last explanation (assuming I do understand it)!
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
The good part of confusing the hell outta someone is that how could you ever be wrong. Oh boy, and I complain how directions are worded. Good thing I didn't become a teacher.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Calvin,
I don't know how good a teach you'd be (but I'd bet better than you think), but I am sure that the students would love your class.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Well thanks Rich
I'd certainly teach them a bit of foreign language, much to their detriment I think.
Now go and get ready to check the frogs in the pond.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I'll try it. so what language would you teach them??
Well, maybe foreign to them. More of a colloquial interpretation of the seedier side of english............
You did those windows.
You should need no training.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
" More of a colloquial interpretation of the seedier side of english............"
Calvin is fluent in it.
LOL!
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Deb,
That really does look impressive. Great work.
I also feel compelled to commend you for being able to find this thread again.
Did you have the foresight to bookmark it, or did you hunt it down??
Either way, well done! :)
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
WOW Deb,
Excellent work! I wasn't holding my breath. Quality work, like yours takes time. Thanks for the lowdown on methodology!
Miami
Some vinyl accepts application of latex paints.......some don't!
Pick a remote or drapery hidden window with which to experiment.
Surface may need to be deglossed.
A tedious task............................Iron Helix
Deb, it depends on how labor intensive you want to get. The vinyl windows that have the wood veneer on the inside merely have a laminate type veneer applied by the window extrusion manufacture applied at the factory. You can find a factory adhesive applied wood veneer product at most full line lumber yards. They will probably have to order it but you can order awide variety of wood species. This is basically the same product cabinet resurfacers use to laminate the cabinet box. You can also paint vinyl. The issue with painting vinyl is that the vinyl is subject to thermal movement. You will probably need to repait every few years, especially on the south and west sides. Use a good quality latex paint and you shouldn't have too many problems.
If you paint or put any vinyl film on your windows youwill most likely void any warranty.
There are specific paints for vinyl, check online for suppliers.
Be very careful if you paint the exterior. Any color that causes the surface temp to rise will cause the vinyl to expand and potentialy fail.
Good luck.
Thanks -- I'll look for the special paint if I decide to go that way. But I'm looking at interior only; the outside is fine.
You can find brush on, and spray on vinyl deglosser and paint at...
http://www.eastwoodcompany.com
Yes, they are an automtive tools and supply company. But the paint and deglosser works just as well on vinyl windows, as on the vinyl on a car.
Don't bogart the Ghost
Quittin' Time