Here’s the sitch:
Basement floor to bottom joists is about 6′-6″. Wanted to rearrange the basement stairs because the current stairs are downright dangerous. So we submitted it to building safety, and today got a note from a plan reviewer that the stairs won’t work because there isn’t headroom!
In my view, it isn’t really a basement,it’s a crawlspace. Somehow a 22 x 30 trapdoor with a ladder would be legal, but a stairway isn’t? Doesn’t really seem to add up.
what do you think?
Replies
so how high are you going to jack the house up?
;)
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Right. Maybe they'll have me dig a 3x3 landing at the bottom of the stairs.
Edited 9/17/2009 9:36 pm ET by Marson
"Maybe they'll have me dig a 3x3 landing at the bottom of the stairs. "I just got the interesting vision of going down the steps, into a 3x3 hole then turning and going back up a few steps. It could work.I had the same height "crawl" but we called it a storm cellar and used an outside bulkhead doorwell and stairs for access. Then I demo'd the access to build a porch. Now I just use a hatch. Not like I go down there that often.DC
You have got to call the reviewer and ask them how to work thru it.
Obviously not resolvable without elevator or several courses of block.
Um....maybe the guy didn't notice that the crawlspace was only 6-6? Getting 6-8 headroom will be quite a feat.
In the building inspectiion world of logic dept. I bet you could cut the stair opening longer, say 3 feet , now you have head room required for the stairs at the bottom tread. of course this cuts into you floor plan upstairs
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Another option ... the alternating tread stair design. Made just for this, I think. Gets the floor to floor height and stair requirement in a shorter horizontal distance. Might be perfect for your situation. If this is just for access and storage, this might be perfect.
Seems that if you have an old situation and replacing bad stairs, aren't you grandfathered from code requirements? The 'basement' would have to be what 7ft ceiling to meet current codes if occupied.
this sounds like the way to go. Call it "ladder access to crawl space" make it steeper and it will not have to conform to the stair section of the code.
the problem is: you called plan review. i swear they was like that when I bought the house.
We gotta have permits. We are doing 20 to 30 spec remods a year. They know about us, plus the banks are needing a certificate of completion from the city. I didn't draw the plans which were submitted. If I had, I would have told a white lie and said the basement ceiling was 6-8. Then it's up to the inspector to catch it. He doesn't carry a tape, and he is practical guy. But the plan reviewer's got it now so that's mute. Regarding an access ladder, I wouldn't want it in my house. Water heater and furnace are down there, plus service panel. Plus it's a small house so you know the owners are going to use the crawl for storage. All around safer to have a set of stairs IMO. Plus, where does it say that a crawlspace access ladder can't have 10 inch treads and 7 1/2" risers?They are really going to get their undies in a bunch when they notice that this "crawlspace" has a tuck under garage.Kind of an interesting situation. The reviewer is out until Monday. I'll post and let you know what she says.
If the crawlspace was 5', how would they get the headroom if you built stairs?
Okay, I'm sorry, I couldn't resist......
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You need to make sure the plans examiner was reviewing it based on the Existing Building Code volume and not NEW. There are some exemptions for things like this.
I'm an ICC and state licensed plans examiner and I have made a mistake before on the difference between "existing" and "new".
As the one reply said, what if the entire area was 5' high?
Mike
Oak River Mike is correct.
Assuming your city has adopted the 2006 International Existing Building Code, (read ASSUMING)
302.4 Stairways. An alteration or replacement of an existing stairway in an existing structure shall not be required to comply with the requirements of a new stairway........When space will not allow.
mj
ICC Certified Building Inspector
You say rearrange ... but it also kind of sounds like just replacing the existing stairs. Should be grandfathered from the standpoint of headroom, rise, run, and width??
Got the permit today. They redlined the basement as "not habitable space".
So were is the BIL going to stay? :)