What do you use to mark dark, wet wood?
I’ve got a lot of deck stairs to build out of pressure treated hem-fir. (Hem-fir?) Those of you on the west coast know what I’m talking about. When wet, I simply can’t see my pencil marks well enough to cut accurate jacks. How do you overcome this? I’ve searched for white or yellow leaded carpenter pencils with no luck. I have tried a red lead carpenter pencil with unsatisfactory results. What say you?
Replies
Tom,
I have just the thing for you. But sadly, I'm on the East Coast so I'm not qualified to answer the post. Oh well.
Just kidding. Believe it or not, our treated lumber is wet too. I can relate. Sometimes the silver Sharpies will work. Other times the best thing to do is use a knife or an awl to mark your cut lines. If you find something foolproof, be sure and share. I'm sure it's a common problem for all of us.
how about chalk? or for a finer line than chalk, a white colored pencil?
I have not tried the white colored pencil, but I want to. I think It'll be brittle, but perhaps I can be gentle enough. I wish someone made carpenter pencils with white lead. I need a fine line, not a lumber crayon. Hey, maybe I can sharpen a yellow lumber crayon to a chisel tip. That's the ticket. It'll probably crumble, but I'll try it. Hey Dieselpig, don't you eastern boys use pressure treated SYP? That's light colored I thought. I'll look at the silver sharpies.
Yes, we use SYP PT, but it almost always comes soaking wet and black like the hem-fir. (Very dark green actually) I have the same problem marking stringers. Sometimes the silver Sharpies will take, sometimes they don't.
I've tried getting a decent line out of lumber crayons (aren't they called a kreel or a keel or something? I forget) but like you said, if you can get it sharp enough it's probably gonna break pretty quick.
Don't give up on using a marking knife, a scratch awl, or even a small nailset. 9 times out of 10 that's what I end up using rather than fighting an uphill battle with a topical marking. It makes for a pretty good cut line most of the time.
Yer nutzo..use a goose quill and imported india ink..geeze..framers!
Have a cool yule..love ya
Right backatcha brother.
Lumber crayons. They write on dry wood or wet wood, and can be bought in light colors. For example
http://www.dixonticonderoga.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=shop.product&prdIndex=176&CFID=1372149&CFTOKEN=67110834
Kinda of inaccurate for a stair stringer, don't ya think? Whatcha cutting yer stringers with a Stihl?
Whatcha cutting yer stringers with a Stihl?
We mock what we do not understand!
Doug
Wouldn't be the first time..... enlighten me sensai.
I have no idea, that's a line from Spy's like Us.
Dan Akroyd and Chevy Chase are about to operate on someone and they haven't a clue what the're doing, some one questions there technique and that's what Dan says to them!
Doug
That one went right over my head Doug. My bad. Rough week and all.
yellow lumber crayons. most good hardware or fastener stores seem to have them. they're always breaking though.
Actually my preference would be a scribe or an awl to scratch a nice line, if it was important to be exact (like stairbuilding would be).
zak
Here in the country deck screws make good scribes, fit right up against a framing square. One less thing to forget to pack up when you're done.
Dry the surface of the wood with a rag and then a heat gun. Then use a carpenter's pencil to do your layout. Doing layout right on a soaking piece of black PT is not gonna work very well.
Put away anything else that makes a line less than .002 , use the utilty knife god gave you, multi-task or die.
You might try these:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32540&cat=1,42936
I'm thinking the red one might work. They say they write on damp wood. They, according to a friend, are not kidding when they say they are indelible so you might need to make sure you only mark the drops.
White china markers, grease pencil, or silver sharpie might work but I suspect if the wood is more than slightly damp they aren't going to make a mark consistently.
Well lookee there, a red one. I have a black one, but not red. Good find.
welders/steel cutters use a soapstone for marking on dark steels etc
it makes a white line and you can buy it at any welder supply store
Spent a pleasant weekend working with a crew of Japanese timber framers (talk about precise and meticulous!) and they used two tools to assure accurate joinery: A snapped a silk ink line (like a chalk line) that left a line that was easy to see and follow, and a bamboo ink pen that left a line like a Sharpie fine point - accurate enough for tight mortise & tenon joints, scarf joints, etc.
These tools are available from http://www.hidatool.com
http://www.japanwoodworker.com
http://www.japanesetools.com
-Jazzdogg-
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." Gil Bailie
Do you mean the ink pens with the felt chisel tip? I can just see the ribbing I'd get for using it; marking a couple lines....dipping in the ink bottle! Oh yeah. In reality, I think its too slow and fragile. I need to be able to throw it in my bags.Any kind of snapped line will not work. You lay stairs out using a framing square. I'd get some REALLY funny looks if I tried to snap a line using the square, and I'm sure I'd be commited to the nuthouse if someone caught me trying to snap the outline of the pattern jack onto the next 2x12.
seems to me on BT that too often guys spend hours trying to answer the wrong question. seems to me wet frozen lumber is a nationwide problem this time of year,duh, its winter. I get my press. trtd. lumber from a yard that keeps it all under cover. unbundled,dried and re stacked. yeah I pay more for it, wear the same set of gloves all day too.[ actually I havn't driven a nail on a job in years]. if everybody told the lumberyard the straight-up truth, things might improve, Ive noticed that one person can make a difference. I might be spoiled,I can go the lumberyard and tell them just exactly how the hoo it's going to be and thats how it is. [ sometimes we wrangle about it a little].I dont build tract house, don't build condos, don't build Mc Mansions. couldn't make a living framing dog houses, but my bill at the lumberyard runs 30 to 80k every month. I'm still the same moron stumbling along behind the wheelbarrow full of concrete that I was 40 years ago,go figure---
Try a stabilo white pencil from an office supply or art store. The grease pencils may work, but are probably too soft.
Deck screw and utility knife have been mentioned, how about a plain old NAIL?
Used nails on all kinds of lumber since a kid., always have one, never get dull, cheap, as accurate as a carp pencil. If you are building furniture quality accuracy cuts for yur decks, then go with the utility knife fer sure.
Thanks for all the suggestions.A knife or nail or screw will not work. Can't see it.I'll report back next week to let ya'll know what worked.
screw will not work. Can't see it.
Try bifocals, or reading glasses??
I'm thinking just push harder?
push hard enough ... it'll cut thru ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I've noticed that some pencils write better than others. One of our local lumberyards has a couple kinds of pencils, one won't even sharpen; they just fragment. I would try getting a few pencils from different suppliers, that might do it. Maybe some colored pencils.
Young, poor, and eager to learn
Call me old fashioned and blind, but try sticking a piece of masking tape where you wanna cut, make a mark on the tape, stand upside down on one leg, squint yer eyez, hold yer breath, and dang, hope for the best<G> Hey, pocket doors can't come off the track if they're nailed open
Bright yellow fibre tip pen from an artists' supply store. I bought the Faber-Castell last time because it was cheap; I'll probably buy the one from the company that makes the architectural drawing pens (Ortho... something) next time.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Buy the pencils for children, the big round ones. The lead is softer and marks better than a #2 lead on wet lumber.These pencils are about the same length ,but the diameter is about 3/8".
mike
BUY Them? I shake the little tykes waitin for the school bus every Tuesday...I hold em by the ankles, and get milk money at the same time. Check the back packs too, some are getting smart and have a secret stash.
I think I saw that on "Tips and Techniques" in last month FHB. LOL.
Just to be clear: I can write on wet wood fine. I have special pencils for that (each yard has different leads that each have their individual strengths). Its the "dark" part that I'm having trouble with.Anyway, its time to get crackin. In few hours I'll find out what works best. Thanks fellas.
I always use my pocket knife for marking. It gives a better line than a pencil anyway. The pencil line gets fatter each time you use it.