Let’s say you are a home improvement contractor and you do kitchens, baths, basements, deck, replace windows and doors, etc. You’ve had a tough time finding someone to work with you. You know what you are looking for….reliable, able to be there at 7:00 AM, sober and ready to go….not a seasoned pro, but someone who can put in cabs, frame a wall, hang a door, tile a floor….understands plumb and level and knows how 16″ and 48″ relate to each other….trustworthy and able to be left alone at a jobsite while you go give an estimate…able to receive and verify deliveries….clean license and able to take the van to the supply house and come back with the correct stuff, the first time….can demo a kitchen without causing unnecessary damage…clean appearance, can interact with homeowners…knows not to let the plumber stand in a $2500 tub full of debris….willing to put in 10 or 12 hour days if something needs to be finished.
Basically you need someone who will let you get more accomplished and therefore make more money. You want to avoid the BS issues that come with so many employees……is he going to show up, he looks like he slept in the gutter last night, he has to be watched like a hawk, it would be nice if he had a drivers license, does he know how to do ANYTHING on his own, etc.
Is it just me or is this type of person very difficult to find? I would be interested in knowing what market you are in and what you would pay a good employee with these qualifications.
Replies
Man, I don't even try anymore.
Forrest - workin' alone
I think I see your problem..
""not a seasoned pro,""
but then you go on to describe exactly that in your list of what you want out of the person.
My take exactly."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
So what would you pay for someone like that, $10 per hour, $20 per hour, $40 per hour,..........
Where are you? That factors in, cuz a good price on the Gulf Coast won't touch a decent guy on the west coast."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I got one you can have. Clock in at 4:30 am everyday, work time is 7. clock out at 5:30 everyday, clock out is 3:30. even saturday. what does he do, we dont know, he hides all day. I think he goes back home or maybe employed some where else too. Oh yea, he drive his own truck instead of the work truck we gave him so he can claim $0.49 a mile. But we really does not know what he does or where he is. Been like this since october
Edited 2/17/2007 8:48 pm by brownbagg
New York suburbs.
New York suburbs.<<
anywhere near me?
"As I was walkin' - I saw a sign thereAnd that sign said - no tress passin'But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!Now that side was made for you and me!" Woody Guthrie 1956
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
LOLNO! Andy! Don't do it! Don't get a job! <G>
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
LOLNO! Andy! Don't do it! Don't get a job! <G> <<<Work for someone besides myself? Cold day in hell!! I'd rather let my family starve..lol.
"As I was walkin' - I saw a sign thereAnd that sign said - no tress passin'But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!Now that side was made for you and me!" Woody Guthrie 1956
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
We both belong to that club.Job... it's a four letter word.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
New York suburbs.<<anywhere near me?
Unfortunately no. I am on the other side of the bridge.
Unfortunately no. I am on the other side of the bridge.<<<Well I think thats a bit of an issue then. If my guess is right in a lot of the upstate NY areas its far less populated than around my neck of the woods (45 min to Manhatten). Same with a bunch of the other guys here in BT.
I can put an ad in a local "Pennysaver" and get 6-12 calls within a week and then I can pick through them. I always wondered if I moved to a not_so_populated area where the help comes from never mind the customers.
The downside to a more_populated_ area is not so much the competition but the cost of living so take your pick.
At times when I was really busy I've put ads in a "real" newpaper (Newsday) and the phone rang off the hook...but at $5-700 for a tiny three line ad that stays in for a week you better have a ton of work and pray you pick the right guy/s so you don't have to shell out that much money again soon.
I too have to agree whole heartidly about growing your own help. You need to be treating your help the way you would want to be treated.
Most anyone thats worked for me has stayed with me for yearssss because I care about them if they're passionate hard working people like myself. They have to be a good fit for me as me for them and I'll tell them that from the very get go. Same with a customer. You do your best work along side people you can relate to. You don't need to like the same foods or the same baseball team but your inner core qualities should be similar. Egos need to stay out of it as well. Never "talk down" to an employee either. The better they feel/the better you feel and it shows in your work.
If you wanna "keep" someone you grow than treat them that way and in some fashion give them a piece of the pie. Sort of like how companies like Ben and Jerry's, Whole Foods etc treat their employees. Give them something to come to work for besides just a job. You spend more time with these guys then you do with your own family.Treat them as such.
Good luck dude.
Be well
Namaste'
andy...
"As I was walkin' - I saw a sign thereAnd that sign said - no tress passin'But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!Now that side was made for you and me!" Woody Guthrie 1956
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
85907.39 in reply to 85907.31
Unfortunately no. I am on the other side of the bridge.<<<
Well I think thats a bit of an issue then. If my guess is right in a lot of the upstate NY areas its far less populated than around my neck of the woods (45 min to Manhatten). Same with a bunch of the other guys here in BT.I can put an ad in a local "Pennysaver" and get 6-12 calls within a week and then I can pick through them. I always wondered if I moved to a not_so_populated area where the help comes from never mind the customers. The downside to a more_populated_ area is not so much the competition but the cost of living so take your pick.At times when I was really busy I've put ads in a "real" newpaper (Newsday) and the phone rang off the hook...but at $5-700 for a tiny three line ad that stays in for a week you better have a ton of work and pray you pick the right guy/s so you don't have to shell out that much money again soon.I too have to agree whole heartidly about growing your own help. You need to be treating your help the way you would want to be treated.Most anyone thats worked for me has stayed with me for yearssss because I care about them if they're passionate hard working people like myself. They have to be a good fit for me as me for them and I'll tell them that from the very get go. Same with a customer. You do your best work along side people you can relate to. You don't need to like the same foods or the same baseball team but your inner core qualities should be similar. Egos need to stay out of it as well. Never "talk down" to an employee either. The better they feel/the better you feel and it shows in your work.If you wanna "keep" someone you grow than treat them that way and in some fashion give them a piece of the pie. Sort of like how companies like Ben and Jerry's, Whole Foods etc treat their employees. Give them something to come to work for besides just a job. You spend more time with these guys then you do with your own family.Treat them as such.Good luck dude.Be wellNamaste'andy...
I don't know of any bridges that go from the Island to upstate. I meant the GWB.
oh...thought you meant the Throgs Neck
"As I was walkin' - I saw a sign thereAnd that sign said - no tress passin'But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!Now that side was made for you and me!" Woody Guthrie 1956
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
If you find one ask if they have a brother looking for work.
I've tried other guys who advertise handyman, home maintenance, repair types...(and I pay their rate - whatever it is) to no avail.
Working solo and will stay that way rather than dealing with schmucks,
-Norm
there is a fellow in here whose screename is shelternerd from north carolina. he has posted on his website his companies mission statement, i believe is the most accurate description of it.
he goes on at some length to describe what great work he and his employees do. he posts rough numbers of what he makes as a company and shares profits with employees. you could probably not find a better employer.
he even states that part of the company mission is to see every employee as a homeowner, clearly the apprentices will have to hang out for a few years and earn it. i really think it is the best "job" for a trades type employee, but....
i would still rather be the employer than the employee, i would rather be the one with the large share of the profits than the smaller, and most critical for me i would rather be the one calling the shots and making the decisions.
nevermind that the money is better as the owner, the control of ones own destiny, the challenge of calling the plays, the not having to depend on that other persons calls.....
the person you are looking for is your competition, the person you are looking for wants you to come to work for him so he can make money from your labors, the moment a person is capable of what you want they will be in business for themselves. if they do not have the qualities you are looking for and you train them they will go on their own when they have them. there is no motivation to stay as an employee in today's society, there is no future in it.
years ago i worked in my grandfather's union electrical shop as a small boy, 10 i think when i first started sweeping on saturdays. The name of the company is Hayward Electric, still in business but no longer owned by my family. (grandpa tony sold the business and retired when grandma died when i was about 12, his sons had no interest in the business)
i heard that grandpa tony's top man took more money out of that business than grandpa did, but thats the way it was back then. the value of a key employee was a lot more back then. one of the problems our society faces is that "devaluation". You are trying by this post to put a value on that employee, and if you find the right candidate, his value may be more than yours to the long term success of your company depending on what you want that company to be.
now if you really think about that, what person in his right mind would leave a gig like that where he made more than the boss? but for you to grow your business to more than just one crew, and for you business to really prosper that investment just might be what it takes. in the long term if you plug in the right guys and had 4 crews where each lead man made more on his job than you did, but you made up for it by adding the smaller percentage 4 times, then maybe it makes sense.
i am a firm believer in david gerstel's book, running a successful construction company, and david like shelternerd says to hire the best you can find.
Thanks for the kind words, and yes, there have been numerous years out of the twenty I've been running this company that I have not been the highest paid employee. Best way to get good help? Grow your own. We now have only one employee who is not yet a homeowner. Gaining on it.
You do some beautiful work Michael!!Nice to have you here in Breaktime!
"As I was walkin' - I saw a sign thereAnd that sign said - no tress passin'But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!Now that side was made for you and me!" Woody Guthrie 1956
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Thanks, it's strangely addictive. I always figured that when I got tired of building houses I would get a job down at the local hardware store being the helpful hardware guy. Breaktime scratches that itch for me. All the bestMichael
that you have not been the highest paid employee should be in the mission statement, i did not know that before now, but i also have to say that in reading the statement it was hard for the first time reading it not to think that it was also a sales pitch.
i am not trying to be critical of you or offend in any way, it is an unfortunate sign of the times and neccesary evil that we have to market ourselves. i have no doubt that you are a highly ethical and quality builder, just wanted to say i don't know how you could make it not sound like a sales pitch to some degree, but if you could in my mind it would be perfect.
and the whole point was, that even working for the greatest guy in the world is not as good as working for yourself if for no other reason than the challenge and sense of accomplishment.
which makes it extremely tough in this day and age to find a decent employee, anybody thats any good wants to hang up his own shingle
Interesting point about the mission statement sounding like a sales pitch. I guess the first time I wrote it it was for internal consumption only. Then we won that "50 best builders to work for in America" award and I was thinking about how to make that part of my marketing from a branding perspective. so I split the Biz Plan / mission statement into two parts. a public and private and posted the public on the website. I still re-write it every spring to some extent and a real benefit has been the way it underscores my commitment to my employees in my own mind. I feel much more committed to following through with something I have published than I would if it were just gathering dust in a drawer. It has undoubtedly been good for my marketing, but the biggest benefit has been the way it has been received by my employees. They feel that I have a commitment to honor the things I am saying on the site and they hold me to it in a positive way and feel more like owners than employees as a result. I like to write and it is inevitable that something that has been getting reviewed and re-written since long before I first posted it back in 2002 should be getting to feel a little too polished by now. I'm creeping up on my annual re-write, maybe I'll trim it back, make it more succinct, look back at the ratio of years I was the highest paid to not over the last 20. April Fools day 2007 is our twentieth anniversary, need to come up with a suitable way to celebrate that. No offense taken, it's all grist for the mill. Michael
i am glad you are not offended, and again i want to stress that the opinion i gave was of a "first impression". i would hope you don't put to much weight on my opinion, and that my telling you of my initial thought does indeed provide grist of some benefit.
the kicker was the part about farming repairs/callbacks to a smaller better able to schedule contractor and how it was a win win win.
the ultimate compliment for me, when i showed one of my best friends a new motorcycle was him saying to me, "i hate you"
in that same vein is the way i feel about your company, there is a huge part of me that wishes i had chosen a similar direction 20 years ago. you have a very admirable operation, i hate you.
so please take the critisicms with the grain of salt they deserve, i wish i could do what you have done.
Thanks for the thoughts though really. I am just about to spend some time working on my re-write and that thing about giving work to my friends maintenance service was just added a year or so ago when he was trying to get it started up in hopes that he would get some work out of it and he has. But it is a delicate balance now that every time I re-write it I'm writing for so many different audiences in addition to just re-writing my biz plan / mission statement for myself and the marketing malarky does tend to slip in there. Be well. It's been 20 years working on this business plus ten working for others before I went out on my own. I guess that makes me un-employable. Michael
Segundo
Where in NC are you located anyway? We get up to Ashville and Celo from time to time, might be nice to have a cuppa java some time.
i am "on" oak island, just outside of southport, in brunswick county about 30 min south of wilmington.
i have been here with my wife and two daughters since summer 2005, came from california basically on a whim to be next to the beach again. i was raised in summerland ca (my formative years) on a south facing beach just south of santa barbara about 100 mi north of LA and by the early 80's could no longer afford to live in the neighborhood i grew up in.
on my first glimpse of southport NC it felt like i had gone back in time 20 years and was home again. summerland is where they had the first ever in history offshore oil rig, and the architecture and feel of the old oil town and the old fishing town are very similar. just last week i priced two lots in summerland online, the only thing for sale in the town, and on a very steep hill with a view, but not at all close to the water. postage stamp size lots, 1.5 mil.
we just had a downturn here in oak island (not good news for us) but you can now buy similar lots here for $100,000 where you can walk to the beach, and it is a gorgious beach.
Ah south EAST NC!!We don't head down that way much, if you ever wind up in Chapel Hill area let me buy you a beer. Michael
absolutely, thank you very much.
Segundo,
I have owned my own business, had up to 13 employees at one time.
We trained in house, everybody shared the wealth. However I discovered I had no desire to gain wealth, nor did I have the apptitude for it. I simply am not "hungry " enough.
Now I personally am happier not having the ownership headaches and am much happier being a super for someone else.
What I am trying to say is simply that not everybody is cut out to want to be an owner, there are those who possess the skills to run the projects just as well or better than an owner can. If you pay them enough they are happy they will never become your competition.
Dovetail
Like you, I've been the boss man and didnt care for it. Maybe for the same reasons as you.
I'm qualified to handle the job that the OPer is talking about and I do so with the company that I work for - I have no intention of ever becoming the compitition, its just not in me.
I believe that we're not alone in this thinking.
The OP'er needs to seek out a guy/gal that wants to do the job, pay them for it and keep them happy.
Look at Mike Smith, I've seen him post on here for over 5 years and I think I've read some of the same guys names repeated over that time, he must be doing something right to keep them. Same for Dieselpig, probably others too.
Doug
you and dovetail make excellent points, not everybody wants to hang up his own shingle.
original question by original poster is what would it take to hire a good guy, seems to me you and dove are the ones in the best position to answer, for your areas.
i would want $100,000 a year, benies negotiable
i would want $100,000 a year, benies negotiable
Thats what I want to but for now I'm working for a little less! <G>
I really have no desire to be the boss - my challenge comes everyday building the things that we do. I wouldnt be able to do that with the burden of worrying about where to come up with 15-20K every other week for payroll, where is the next job going to come from so that I dont have to let any of these guys go, .........
I work for a place that I went to work for 6 years ago - took 3 1/2 years off to move to Texas for my wifes work and returned home to get my old job back. At this place there are very few turn overs in employees.
With the exception of one or two guys most of us have done the "boss" thing and dont want to return to it. The guy that runs the shop could go anywhere but I doubt that he gives that any thought, he's priceless in my mind and I'm sure he's well compansated for his skills, as are all of us.
The thing that makes us stay is the acruing vacation time, 401K program, paid holidays, 4 day workweek, a boss that 99% of the time is a very enjoyable guy to be around. We do some of the best milwork in the area and I think everybody at the place genuinely likes their job. I dont see anybody that's looking for something else.
You can have the boss thing, I wouldnt take it as a gift! I believe that its a position that you are either meant for or not and I'm not.
Doug
interesting reply, thanks for the perspective. i can't help but think however that you are not in the position for your company that the original poster was looking to fill for his.
it sounds like you are specializing in high end millwork, not doing various grunt and skill tasks for a two man operation remodeler.
i can do the remodel stuff with the best of them but new construction is cleaner, easier (more labor intensive in my opinion, less changing gears) , and pays better.
i don't think i would want to be the boss at your company either doug, i would have my eye on the guy running the shops job as a goal, but i definitely would in the remodel situation.
i have to confess that i tend to seek out key roles and challenges, and generally expect others to have similar feelings. one of the things i have always enjoyed about construction was the friendly competition, i persued a career in the most difficult and competitive area i could find. but as you and dove point out there are those that are content as a cog in the system.
I have 2 of them. One is my brother the other I found a few months ago. Here (central Ohio) the cost 17-18 an hour, with burden and benefits it is more like 25-27 an hour. And with the things you want someone to do the would be considered a skilled tradesman, not a helper. DanT
Dan, where are you located in central Ohio? I live in Chillicothe but work in Upper Arlington most of the time.
I am in Marion. Just about 40 miles north of Upper Arlington. Quite a drive for you daily isn't it. Probably good work in that area though. DanT
Thanks to all those who have participated in this discussion. The potential employee I describe in the first post of this thread is me. If you are in northern New Jersey and feel this type of employee would be an asset to your business I would like to discuss any opportunities you might have.
I know of a great outfit in Berkley Hieghts NJ always looking for the same type. Forst Co. They hire guys like you and me. 35 to 40 per who had it with working for themselves. It works as he gets people who care. He has tried many times to get me to jump in. I am just too stupid to take him up on it. Though latley I have been thinking hard.
My Father worked for Forst Years ago, Like before he left for Vietnam. So, it's probably a father son hand off.
He always had good things to say even though it was only for a short time.
Wow ,small world. Yes it is a father son thing and it so happens they are both named Robert. The dad still pops by to see how things are going on each job. He is retired but loves to walk around the job site and give advice. It is always good little tips and a joke then he is off again. Robert Jr runs the Co. now with the help of RJ. They really run a tight ship and I miss working for them as a sub. They do high end work for fussy rich people , thats where you learn the most. He let me learn on his job site many things. Was like a father son thing to be honest. That man knows more than anyone I know and I value his friendship honesty and work ethic. I started out doing only roofs for him , pretty soon he said Ron you catch on quick and your honest, I would rather show you how to side this house with shake than give it to someone else. Thats how it went for years, framing,reno's,differant types of siding, roofing, you name it. They had a secretary for years named Kathy that knew more about construction than most men on the job site. Robert could come on any job site and tell anyone of the contractors working there how to do there job better,faster ,he really knows his stuff. Every now and then he would jump up on a ten pitch roof cruise across the brackets and sart hand nailing quickly next to you. He loves his job and everything about this field. Bob if ya reading this , try to not let it get to your head ya big lug!
By the way what was your dads name and what did he do?
Edited 2/27/2007 5:45 pm ET by AllTrade
My father's name is Steve.
About 15 years ago he ran into Robert Sr. at the AC builders show and he vaguely remembered him. It's probably been 37 or so years since he worked for him by now.
He was primarily a framer. Now he works for a Commercial/High Density Residential operation in Northern NJ in management.
For a while when I was in my l late teens/early 20's we lived in Berkley Heights by the Elementery School. I was working for a big roofing and siding Company then and he often told me I should look for a company like Forst to go to work for. I was in love with new work and wanted to be a framer so I never really took that to heart.
In the past I've done a ton of work in that area and seeing how Professional Forst's operation looks, I'm sure he was right.
$40 an hour wouldn't cover my costs these days, But man I would love to work for a place like that.
Guess hind sight is 20/20.
Dan,
it usually takes about an hour and fifteen but the money and steady work is well worth it! still not sure these people know the value of money.
Sounds like a great place to work Doug. I was never 100% sure exactly what kind of work you did.
Does your company have a website?[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Eric
Yes there is a web site but its so outdated that i wouldnt bother to link it!
Here is a couple examples of what we do. Like the style or not this is indicative of our work. Obviously this isnt going into every house. The current one in my opinion makes this one look sorta blah-sey.
We do everything you see in the pictures in terms of woodwork, we dont buy anything out.
Since I came back to work for this company they have added a CNC and a 6 head Weinig so now were doing even more complex stuff, and faster!
Sorry about that one pix, its a little large!
Doug
dang, must feel nice to come to work. View Image
is it Saturday yet?
dang, must feel nice to come to work.
Well as good as it CAN feel going to work.
I hate Monday mornings and love Thursday afternoons just as much as anybody though, maybe more!
Doug
Hey Doug...when do we get to see the good work?....LOL...whewwwwwww!!!
"As I was walkin' - I saw a sign thereAnd that sign said - no tress passin'But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!Now that side was made for you and me!" Woody Guthrie 1956
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
when do we get to see the good work?
The next project is always the "good work"!
I've always said that I'm very lucky/fortunate to get to do what I do, makes going to work fun!
Doug
Doug,
WOW!!
Beautiful work Doug. Bet your commute is a lot easier too. I've gone through Austin a few times recently and wondered how anybody could put up with the amount of traffic.
Austin trafic!
Yea, 3 1/2 years of it was enough for me. I spend max 25 - 30 minutes each way, hell in Austin that wont get you a good start.
Doug
Very nice work Doug !
$1000,000 ?
I wish , but I do know those who do who choose to run bigger jobs than I choose to. I get paid well, unlike Doug, I get no 401 because I float bewteen several smaller companies and am not employed full time at length for any of them. But I love what I do so I am content, which I learned can't be paid for with $.
One other thing about me is I have always hated competition.. whether in business or anything else. i am always looking for co-operation instead.
Edited 2/18/2007 1:58 am ET by dovetail97128
Then there's people like me. I haven't even been able to keep myself on my own job for five years running day after day!<G>
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
Like you, I've been the boss man and didnt care for it. Maybe for the same reasons as you.
I'm qualified to handle the job that the OPer is talking about and I do so with the company that I work for - I have no intention of ever becoming the compitition, its just not in me.
I believe that we're not alone in this thinking.
The OP'er needs to seek out a guy/gal that wants to do the job, pay them for it and keep them happy.
That makes three of us.
Cheers[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
I suspect that there are quite a few more to be counted among the lurkers.
It often seems to me that too many company owners have an elitest view of the world.
They want to measure a persons worth and success in life in terms of power and money. If you aren't as greedy for those things as they are then you are a failure and "less than " they are in their eyes.
Donald Trump personalities.
I hear from my boss all the time about this guy or that, that did work for him, or is looking for a job, that had his own business but doesn't anymore.
Somehow he believes they are a failure. He never considers for a moment that for many of us it is a decision.
For me it was a no brainer, and a very tough decision at the same time. And an admission of failure to some extent.
I had to admit to not being good at the business end of things and thus decide that I would be better off concentrating on using my hand skills to make money and let someone else handle the office part of it.[email protected]
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
I'm with you. I chose carpentry to be a carpenter, not a CEO. Until recently I was running my own carpentry business, but now I've signed on full time with a large commercial company.
Main reason for me was health insurance, paid time off, and 401k. Of course, it's less money, but worth the sacrifice in my opinion. The other benefit, is the oppurtunity to move into the office, or project management, if my body starts to reject the physical aspects of carpentry.
Also, I have more time/brain space to focus on my investments. Which aren't any different whether I'm an emloyee, or employer.I wish I had a reason; my flaws are open season
Also, I have more time/brain space to focus on my investments. Which aren't any different whether I'm an emloyee, or employer.
A agree with you. Not that I have anything all that big and important going on I like the idea that I dont have to be concerned/thinking about work when I'm not there.
Doug
The person you refer to already has a title, "self employed".
I used to wish for people like you describe. Now I'm truly glad to have the help I have and to try to make up for what they lack.
You can't hire you.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
THe question is how much is it worth to you? How bad do you want someone like that? Be prepared to pay for the right guy. Or hire someone and train him for years and hope he stays with you.
Lately I have begun to think I would rather work for someone else, it would have to be the right fit for me to shut the doors on my company.
Your list of ideal traits in a carpenter is going to be someone who already owns a company or is the top paid guy on the totem pole on the competitors payroll.
35 - 40$ plus bennies and perks for all that..
you seem to want / are looking for a self contained do everything run the show on their own worker... not a helper..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Since no one has really answered your question, I'll give it a shot. Here in central NJ, that guy would be worth anywhere from $30-45/hour, depending on what benefits (if any) you offer, what he's expected to supply in the way of tools, how far he's traveling from home, etc.
That being said, I will agree with the rest of the posters that this person is going to be tough to find. Most folks with that level of caring/concern are either working on their own, or are so well taken care of where they are (because they're so highly coveted and needed) that there's little chance of getting them to make a move without throwing huge money at them.
The best option for you is truly as ShelterNerd said- grow your own. Find a solid, conscientious (sp) kid who's green and teach him what he needs to know. Pay him more than Home Depot will, expect him to make a lot of mistakes along the way (and budget both time and money to correct them) and mold him into what you want. After 5 or more years, you'll have what you're looking for- and then he'll go and hang up his own shingle.....lol. Just kidding on that first part (sort of.....).
Bob
I have one guy like that who will not work as an employee. He took a 1099 for just over 55K for about 44 weeks last year
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
They are out there...
they are all working for themselves...
or in the very rare instances working for someone who knows that they reall want a "Seasoned Pro" and are willing o pay them what they deserve..
You want a guy who will run the job while you are not...
why the hell should anyone be willing to do that for the chicken feed that most contractors think is a good wage???
been there, done that, got the t-shirt, built the theme park...
I don't feel safe in this world no more
I don't want to die in a nuclear war
I want to sail away to a distant shore and make like an ape man
I think we live in the same area and the problem is that most GC/Boss is offering $20-25 per hour for that kind of help.
Anyone who has that kind of skills looks beyond those numbers.
I agree with the $35-40 range. You have to pay them enough to not go into business themselves, stay the extra hours, be on time , etc.
$20- 25 per hour gets you an employee who will do the job but has no vested interested in making YOUR company run well . It's a paycheck and the minute something better comes along it will be under consideration.
Believe me, once another employer found or discovers thats what you are paying somebody who is that well rounded , you will lose them.
You have to pay to keep the good ones around. Roughly $37-38 per hour is $1000. take home after taxes on the books. If your a family man and need to have a chance at not struggling it's a pretty good number to start with IMO.
By the way, I've been lookiing for that job for years now, they don't seem to exist. No one wants to pay those wages for the return. They always go the cheap route and then complain about their employess. Myself included until about ten years back.
Edited 2/18/2007 9:05 am ET by jackstraw
"sober and ready to go....not a seasoned pro, but someone who can put in cabs, frame a wall, hang a door, tile a floor...."
Wow! You seem confused or I am, but the lead guy you describe her3e IS a seasoned pro.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
iluvgear,
The guy you described IS a seasoned pro. No two ways about it. I was an underpaid employee for way too long and that's pretty much the only reason I ever went out on my own.
I hated running a business.
On the other hand, I can frame, roof, side trim, hang cabinets and damn near anything else save for finish drywall ( In refuse to learn). I can manage a job and run employees. I can go for weeks without actually seeing the boss. I can read a plan, make a material list and balance a budget. I'm computer literate and can work Excel and that stupid Microsoft database program I can never rememebr the name of.
I've got my own truck as well as probably $70K worth of tools.
I consider myself a professional and if I was ever to return to the trades I would expect to be treated as such.
I would need a minimum of $900 a week after taxes and deductions. I would need some kind of SEP or 401K program. I would need Health Insurance. I would need some kind of incentive program.
I would have never made those kinds of demands even 8 years ago.
Since returning to the Army in 2002 I've rediscoverd how to take care of a family. And the guy your looking for..................is gonna be a family man.
As a senior NCO and with my current duty station I take home a little over $5500 a month. I ahve 30 days vacation a year. I've got heathcare and a pension as well as a 401K type program.
I would love to go back to working with my hands and my tools. But I'm not gonna ask my family to sacrafice so that I can do so. And that's what it would be.
The guy your looking for IS a Seasoned Pro and if you want to hire him? You're gonna have to pay him.
You need to hire a young kid who wants to work and learn and bring him along. By doing so not only are you getting what you want, but you'll be building a loyalty that will negate the call of things like $2 more an hour.
I dont think finding a carpenter that does all that would be hard to find, but im still looking for a woman that looks like pam anderson and cooks and cleans like martha steward.
sounds like you would be looking to hire the owner of the company. that's the only person I've met to date that would care that much.
"it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."
Bozini Latini
We have two employees who fit the profile. It took about ten years of trying to find them. We have offered them a chance to join our partnership but both have declined because they don't want the additional headaches.
They do not stay with us because of the money. They both could make more (not a lot more) with our competition or with a little travel. They choose to stay because they like the work atmosphere, the steady work and the opportunity to do their best work. These intangibles mean a lot more than a little extra pay. Both have worked with us for about 15 years. We would love to hire a young guy with the same attitude. It takes a lot of looking.
Excellent point Schelling!
Just three years ago I was everything Iluvgear described and more... for $15.00 an hour.
I could have probably gone someplace else and earned a few dollars more, or had more bennies than just 2 weeks vacation, but I really liked the company I worked for. I loved the fact that I never had to worry about bookwork or any of the management aspects of running a company. As Doug and Dovetail have pointed out, There are many more motivations that drive people than the ego boost of saying "I own my own business".
If you are in a position of employing people, never underestimate the power of a feeling of appreciation. I think more people have left a job, or stayed with a lower paying job because of that one factor than anything else." If I were a carpenter"
nothing to add except one question:
<<knows not to let the plumber stand in a $2500 tub full of debris....>>
Why the hell would anyone of reasonable mind do this? I guess it is rhetorical, eh.
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...
Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home.
...aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
3 to 1 odds he had it happen on his crew sometime in the past and he can't get it out of his mind.
be a marvel
http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2007022523645.jpg
I don't feel safe in this world no more
I don't want to die in a nuclear war
I want to sail away to a distant shore and make like an ape man
even if they are not a seasoned pro you described one preety close and you will have to pay likewise.