Came home from work today to fine my neighbor re-roofing his house.
Couldn’t help but notice he was not using any felt paper underlayment.
he did use ice & water at the start of the roof but that’s it.
So I went over and jokingly said ” hey where’s the tar paper??”
his response: You don’t need it if you are using architectural shingles.
What?!!
Now I have only done a small handful of roofing jobs.
I always use Ice & Water along the first 3-6ft of roof-line and felt paper for the rest. If it is low slope then I’ll cover the whole thing with ice & water. That way i can sleep at night.
So whats the general opinion on this one guys??
(even though I know the answer, or I think I do)
Replies
That's like saying you don't need a seat belt if your car has an airbag.
Why risk it? I've peeled up shingles and found no felt on roofs that have never leaked but I'd never think of laying new shingles down without felt. It's cheap insurance. Like you said, I prefer to sleep at night.
Your neighbor is a dork.
A roof is a system, consisting of layers of water shedding materials. Putting all your faith in one layer, when a redundent layer of underlayment (I think synthetic is best)... why?
It's OK to deviate from the norms if you can demonstrate a positive to your approach, but skipping underlayment has a very low price benifit, and a significant damage/repair downside.
Tu stultus es
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
For argument's sake, let's say you don't need it.
If that's the case, even just 15# felt underneath would probably buy you another 5 years of roof life.
Now THAT'S a bargain!
AitchKay
There are 4 or 5 valid reasons for using felt or the new synthetics --- and only one for not using it . And that 1 has nothing to do with roofing !!!
From what I've gathered is that roof systems are redundant.
If one layer doesn't catch the water in certain conditions the other layer does.
What if you have a real downpour and a strong wind pushing water up slope on the roof?
Things happen in nature once in a while that make me want extra layers.
Not less.
Will Rogers
You guys crack me up !
although tar paper is probably a good idea to incinuate that the shingles will not work properly because there is no tar paper is assanine.
He could use both tar paper and shingles and install either one incorrectly and have problems.
It's his roof he's payin for it doing it himself. Do we really care?
probably better to mind your own B with respect to your neighbor but if you find out exactly what brand/type/etc shingle he is using and look up the installation instructions, I'll bet you $5 that it will call for felt. MFGs just love people to do stuff like that because then they don't have to warranty their product....
He won't need to loo it up online - there is a wrapper or two blowing around his neighborhood he can pick up right off the ground.
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Shingles shed water, but a well laid roof of shingles is NOT waterproof.
Which is why the felt is absolutely needed.
I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)
Oh, gawd, here we go again!
This subject comes around about as often as the pex/copper debate, or the vertical/horizontal gyprock debate, or the PT/no PT debate.
The answers are:
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Never use TP ? What are you french?
This is going downhill, and fast....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Well, the subjct is about shedding water downhill....
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
you only scored 25% on that test!
I expected so much more out of you son.
;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"This subject comes around about as often as the pex/copper debate,"...and don't forget the cope, never miter, debate!...or the PT/no PT debate." -- ”Never use PT.” -- Unless you’re up against the building code.“or the vertical/horizontal gyprock debate” --”Hang the 'rock vertically.” -- Yep. Absolutely! Unless, of course, your wall is wider than 4’.Amazing that we agree on everything! Great minds do indeed think alike!Aitchkay
Your gonna have to realize that the use of PT lumber isn't a periodic topic of discussion - except for you. Everybody has their own little pet peeve. No need to try to involve everyone else. Like for me, it is non-pt wood in contact with masonry or concrete :-) But I don't need to keep beating a dead horse. ;-)
I like heart redwood with a vycor barrier...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Your next line should have been, "What did the instructions on the package say?"
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Well thanks guys for the info and fun reading once again.As noted I knew the answer. But just wanted some backup on this one. not that I'm rushing over to tell te guy Hey you are doing all wrong.
Let him find out on his own when the darn thing leaks durng a bad winter or something.I also noted his nailing pattern was causing some nails to be too close to the seam or right in the seam.. ( real bad no no ). so when all is said and done he would have done all this work, put on nice new shingles for what a leaky roof again. All I can say i good luck.Hey thanks again for the posts guys.Oh BTW about this hanging board vertically, (not that i'm looing to get into a pissing contest with someone over technique but just ask any GOOD plasterer and you can have your answer.... Horizontal;)
Yea - you gotta watch it with neighbors. Easy to make enemies if they thing you are a know-it-all. Been there, done that.
Oh yeah?ou ain't HALF the know-it-all I am!;)
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(not that i'm looing to get into a pissing contest with someone over technique but just ask any GOOD plasterer and you can have your answer.... Horizontal;)
'Plasterers'?
hee-hee-hee
Actually, it'd be interesting to discuss whether it's better to hang the sheets of lath vertically or horizontally. My guess--horizontally....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Take pictures while he is working. When he asks why, tell him you'll give them to any prospective buyers of his house.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Good plasteres don't HANG rock, they just finish it
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Opinion? How about CODE!