What Size Screw to Attach Notched 4 X 4 Mid Run Handrail Newel Post
jimmiem
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
Have to reinforce notched 4 x 4 handrail newel post. It is in the middle of a straight 16 foot run. The original installers used 4 trim head screws through the notched area. The post is a little wobbly. Everything around the post on the floor area is finished. I was thinking of replacing the trim heads with lag screws or Timberloks through the notch. Want to drill a flat bottom hole with forstner so the head could be hidden and the hole filled and finished. Or would going through the main body of the post into the subfloor be a better way to go?
Replies
Jim
You've been good with photo's b/4. One here would be a good deal of help.
thanks.
Calvin
I'll see if I can get one. It's at my friend's dughter's house. How was the trip home?
Jim
Sweet trip home.
have been traveling a couple more times since. Been getting better at turning down work.
last night we attended a show at an arts festival in Bowling Green (Ohio). Featured band- Robert Randolph. Now that was some good music!
Calvin
Sounds like you're living the good life!!!!! Work if and when you want to....doesn't get any better than that.
GRK RSS screws are what you want.
Be careful to not drill the holes too deep -- you want to take the absolute minimum "meat" possible out of the 2" thickness.
(To avoid drilling the holes at all you can use GRK R4 flat-head screws -- not unattractive if left exposed.)
GRK
The R4s look like a good choice. Would easily replace the trim heads that are flush and visible....just slightly larger head. I'm guessing that the current trim heads were an add-on and I'm wondering what the primary method of attachment is that's letting it wobble a bit. I'll take a harder look and see if it was just toenailed or bubble gummed. Thank you for the product tip.
Many of your better hardware stores will stock a reasonable selection of GRKs. Be wary of immitations, as only the GRKs are really trustworthy in terms of strength and holding power.
On closer inspection the part of the 4 X 4 that has the screws through it is 1 1/4" thick. The rail itself 'sits' on the finished hardwood floor and I can see daylight under it so it doesn't appear to have another means of attachment other than through the part that overhangs. Do you think that GRKs through the overhang will be enough? I'm thinking about shimming and toenailing the side opposite the overhang into the hardwood floor and subfloor.
No matter what you do it's less than ideal, but you definitely need to securely fasten that 1-1/4" tongue. What you can do besides is hard to guess from here.
Better But Not 100% Movement Free
I used 4" GRKS. I put a few through the tongue and toe screwed 2 on the opposite of the newel. It's better....solid if I grab the newel a couple of feet above the floor but a slight amount of movement if I grab the newel at the top. Another poster had a link to a site that had 'L' brackets that are screwed to the newel and the floor and covered with baseboard type trim. I'm wondering even if I get the newels rock solid whether the ballusters are contributing to the movement.
Jim
You're going to screw and plug the one side of the post. On the other side, instead of toe nailing consider using screws. Drill a 1/2" hole a 1/2 " deep with a brad point or forstner bit. Use finish screws, starting at the bottom and side of your hole to toe screw. There's no head to tear into the side of your countersunk hole. Screws way better at holding than a nail.
find some complimentary grained wood (or diff to hi-light the plug) and glue in and press flat to the face of the post. Might not have to sand and refinish the post.
I'd consider using a pocket screw jig, if you're going to "toe screw". http://www.rockler.com/mini-kreg-jig-pocket-hole-kit . I've seen these for sale at HD.
Pocket screw jig
Thank You. I'll check it out. Always looking for new useful tools.
Dan
You could use the Kreg jig, but freehand is really just good aim in this case. Kreg offers plugs but I've found most to be way too tight to slide fully into the elongated hole. Probably they grew in size by picking up moisture. The plugs can be pared down with a sharp chisel and sanded, but in Jim's situation I've had good luck free hand and a small round plug.
If you set the plug with a block, minimal or no sanding needed.
Hello Calvin,
How have you been? I should have said install a screw at an angle (like a toenail)...screw and not a nail. I wouldn't trust myself trying to hammer a nail at an angle (toenail) through any finished wood. The newel post was put in after the flooring was installed and I can see daylight under the part that should be on the floor. Wonder who did it and what they were or weren't thinking. The stairs run up beside the railing and I found that the stair landing nosingi s loose too.
Maybe one of these anchor systems would work.
http://stairfasteners.com/s_newel.htm
The L Bracket Kit with trim would probably be the easiest to apply. The other would requiring removing everything. Seeing as how the newel has a notch overhang I'm wondering if the L Bracket with trim on only 3 sides would look funny?
Well, that's something only you can answer.
I don't have a great ability to picture things in my head. I know a lot of things most people won't ever notice glares in the eye of the enlightened.
False
Dan,
Only GRKs????? A little research will lead you to other options, in terms of price, service and availability. Oh, and being "trustworthy".