What I mean is when do you leave the “job site”? Then when do you stop taking “business calls”? Do you see where I am going? It seems that if you are self employeed especially construction, that you are on 24/7. I know some of you have an office somewhere in a nice building, but some of us run our business out of our homes. This seems to work most of the time, but there are days I wish hubby would just let me turn all the phones, cellphones, fax etc off and say forget it! Thanks for letting me talk this out:-)
Tamara
Replies
Tamara, you might not want to pass this on to your boyfriend. I work till I'm done and in good shape for the next day. Usually it's at dark in the winter, 6/7 in the summer, longer if it means not having to set up the next day and finish. If I'm getting ready for a sub the next day, I'll stay till that's done. Saturdays are full days if necessary. Sunday is not always a day of rest.
Dinner is never before 8. Business calls/telemarketeers usually quit about 10, monitor the machine if there's something more important to do.
It's a feast or famine existence.
But never, never miss a function with your children. They grow up too fast. And of course, marry the right woman.
__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Im sorry to break this news . It doesnt seem to be any different . Ive seen mothers go past what they should because they have to. I pretty much feel the same . Till its done or I cant , but normally I can. Seems important to wrap up a day. We are servants . I feel the same as you though, I think we all do. I dont think we are any different than the rest here.
Tim Mooney
I turn off the cell phone at church, at the dentists or doctors, at family dinner, and during time with the kids. I turned it off while on the rollar coasters at Cedar Point a few weeks ago! (Try answering it at 92mph on the first Millenium downhill! - Actually, I was too chicken to ride that one!)
I don't answer when talking with clients.
I pull off the road when I call or answer while driving.
If I get a life again, there will be tender moments with no phones, as well!
Tamara,
It is 8:45 here and I just walked in the door from welding the steel railing together for the deck I built, on the house I've been remodeling for the last 4 months. I will be so glad to be done with this, but until I am I have the drive to keep working until I get to a point that I feel comfortable stopping for the day. I also will answer my phone until I go to bed, although caller ID is nice at 10:00 at night. I just started on my own about a year ago and my view is that until I get established and can hire someone to field calls 8 hours a day, I need to be there to answer my customers questions. Sometimes I hate it, but after talking to someone about what they see as a major problem, and solving it, I sure do sleep better at night. We don't have any kids yet, but should in about 7 months, so hopefully in that time I can find someone to delegate some of these tasks to. In any case I work alot more now than I did when I had a job, but I wouldn't trade it for the world.
Cole
Cole Dean
Dean Contracting
Do you guys really feel that if you are not available to answer calls during after hours, say after 5pm, that you will lose business.
My experience has been, if you make yourself available after hours then everyone calls and they don't feel that it is wrong at all no matter how late it is, if they know you aren't available then they will just simply call you the next day when you are.
I know that there are situations, ie. emergencies, that warrant after hours calls but for the most part, they (client) can wait. Everyone else goes home after work, why not contractors?
Currently I'm working in a voiceover studio. With lots of computers and sensitive microphones around the place needs to be quiet and clean during business hours. Not gonna happen when you're framing and hanging drywall. We start around 5 P.M. and work until we have nothing left to do but start on another major portion of work, usually around 3 or 4 A.M.
The cell phone is ON unless I'm at in an audience or on a date. Even in some of those situations I'll leave it on vibrate. Working my current hours, I can't afford not to get out of bed to answer the phone. And being new to the business I can't afford to wait 'til the morning to pick up my after 5 P.M. messages. After all, the people I usually work for have jobs too, and will just keep calling other people until they get someone on the phone.
Luckily for my social life, the guy I'm currently working with has access to a beach house and likes to make full use of his windsurfing time this summer. He refuses to work the weekends, so i do get a day off now and then.
Thanks for all the posts. As I have said hubby and I have only been married three and a half years and he has been in the bus. for 15 years on his own. I deal with the business paper work except for bids. We have become a team, but I know my limits. I help deal with the calls from customers. If they need to talk to him ASAP then I will let hubby know, if not then I take names, numbers, and the situation. Lars has gotten a lot better about not working until 3:00am. When he was single he would work many 18 hour days. Now that he married and has kids most of the time he is home by 9 and on a great day by 8. There are those summer nights that I see him at 12am. Being a workaholic myself I can appreciate a long day. He is great about getting involved with school PTO etc. with our oldest daughter that is in 6th grade. We have a 2 and 1 year old. Let me just say to all of you that the construction business has given me a greater appreciation for what all of you go through. Having your own business isn't always what you think it will be! Then again there are some great rewards for having your own business. It has motivated me to seriously start planning my own business in 3-5 years. Have a great day out there!Tamara
If you do good work then you have repeat biz which is the best. With repeat biz one doesnt have to worry all that much about earning a living...it comes to you.Quittin' time is when you get tired.....learn from experiance. thats when you get hurt in our biz. Money isnt as important then keeping yourself all together. Theres nothing that cant wait (cept a roof...lol)!
Biz calls shouldnt be so much of an annoyance IMHO sitting at the phone at home is the easy part! Nine oclock is the cut off limit for me...I let the machine pick up after that.
Be well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Ditto what Andy said. I let the machine get the calls after 9:00. I lay there in bed and listen to the message. I figure I can get up and grab the phone if someone's dying. Most of the calls I get after 9:00 are jerks looking for free advice, or something like that. Ya gota have a life. And I got better thing to do with DW after the kids go to bed......
I used to get up and answer the phone no matter what time it was. When I'd answer in a sleepy voice, people would sometimes say: "Did I wake you up?" And I would answer: "It's O.K. - I had to get up to answer the phone anyway"
"I got an answering machine for my phone. Now when I'm not home and somebody calls me, they hear a recording of a busy signal."
I'll be the odd duck out here. I leave the cell phone in the truck, when I get out of it at 5pm or so. I don't answer the phone in the home office after that time either. There is a machine. I work business hours, I try to do estimates during business hours. If they are going to do a job with me, they can invest in the time away from their work. You'll find customers are more goal oriented, and focused when they are away from their job. When you do it in leisure time of the evenings, they waste more time on chit chat, blah, blah, blah. I've always figured I was robbing my family of me, when I work during family time.
Saturdays and Sundays are not regular work days.......I'll work one OCCASIONALLY.....but I'm very pissed, and not easy to work with when I have to.
This has always been my vocation and career.....not my life. I do it for the money.
I feel sorry for the wives and kids of the guys think they have to work so many hours, and justify it in so many stupid ways.....
" I feel sorry for the wives and kids of the guys think they have to work so many hours, and justify it in so many stupid ways....."
Seems that everyone who doesn't agree with you is stupid. You could lighten up a bit, you know.
I didn't say the people are stupid, I said the ways they justify it are. Money, self importance, workaholic, blah, blah, blah.
I keep seeing 24/7. The only thing I have to do 24/7 is breath. Nobody here is THAT important that it can't wait till morning.
I'm with Keith! No one's that important. Friends and family are. So is a life.
I'm staying self employeed for more freedom...not less. Sure there are nites when I'm up doing bids or paperwork...but only because I chose to ...the kids asleep..and the wife's watching a movie I don't wanna see.
I generally work 8am to 4. I'll stay late to finish something up......many times put in 12 hr days....but only if I'm way behind...or I can crank something out...get paid ahead of schedule..and move on to the next check..or take a long weekend!
If U gotta work 18 hr days you are unorganized or underbidding. Or looking for reasons to not go home! I'll work the odd weekend....but don't make a habit out of it....so no one expects it from me. Depends on the work too.....I'll gladly run trim for a month straight with no breaks....but I ain't getting up early Sat morn to dig nothing! If it looks to be a nice day and I can get some fresh air and maybe a tan.....I'll gladly take that late start and early quit on a weekend.....if nothing else is planned or going on.
40hrs a week at 50 per year is 2K hrs......I don't work my billing rate to come even close to that...because I know I'll never have that much time on the job sites.....so where's the logic in trying to stuff in all that OT?
It'll always be there tomorrow...and if ya bid it right......you'll still be getting paid to do it. Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
" I didn't say the people are stupid, I said the ways they justify it are.
"
I realize that - I was referring more to your habit of calling anything you don't agree with stupid. (Or worse)
I like your posts, but don't like your attitude.
The other night I ate at a real nice family restaurant. Every table had an argument going.
Like my posts, but not my attitude? My posts are my opinion AND my attitude. What are you trying to say? You're still pissed at something I said , sometime ...right? What exactly was it?
I know I get tons of nasty e-mails whenever I crank on someone being a side-job-sammy, doing contracting work, when they have a steady paycheck from some other field. Was it one of those?
I work to live
i don't live to work
Well good, you're one of the ones we want. Now please step on the bus and grab a beer, soon we'll be leaving for Partyville.
If you didn't have to work to live, would you still work? Doing what?
What would fill your day?
I'd still be puttering with my woodworking if i didn't have to work
It's in my blood
Its a part of me
Owning my own successfull buisiness affords me the ability to work half days every day of the week, and I am able to choose which twelve hours that best suit my needs on any given day. If I have to attend church Sunday morning, I can start later in the day on Sunday. No joking, we COMMITED ( should be commited ) artisans have to work long hours. I still sell my own jobs as well as contract, build, estimate, schedule, order, invoice, market, hire, etcccccc. For one, I don't think I could hire anyone to do it ( for the pay ) and I could'nt trust anyone to do it. I stiil feel I have the best job in the world, allthough some days I have to convince myself of that.
Arrive 7-8 AM for the most part...depart 3PM
Ken Fisher
Keith -
Take for instance the post in this thread I first replied to. The following line gave a good reason for doing things the way you do them:
" You'll find customers are more goal oriented, and focused when they are away from their job."
Then look at the last line:
" I feel sorry for the wives and kids of the guys think they have to work so many hours, and justify it in so many stupid ways....."
Pretty much everything intelligent you said up to that point was lost on me when you hit the "stupid" word. That's what prompted me to reply. When you call what someone thinks stupid, they're going to tune out anything intelligent you say and focus on that part. So your otherwise useful post is wasted.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
I stand by what I said and will repeat it......STUPID, STUPID, STUPID.
4 out of 10 kids grow up in a house without a father. 2 out of the 4 must have contractors as fathers, and they actually live in the house, they just chose to put others before their own family.
If you feel compeled to work those types of hours, do the rest of the world a favor and be single and don't have kids. You'll wind up in counseling, and your kids and wife will hate you, hate when the phone rings, and begin to hate life.
If they love what you do and the hours you spend away from them, then they are telling you " you make me so happy, with the money, I'm a money grubbing pig, and you are making my dreams come true, so get back to work, and out of my life, but keep the money coming".
It's not the quanity of time I spend with my kids, it's the quality. ####, that line was made up to justify why parents stay away from their families. Chronic overacheivers, who want to "have it all" the kids, the house, the career, the cars the vacations.....but don't want the burden of having to actually take care of them.
I'm not saying don't work 24/7, hell ,you can come work for me, I'd love it. But if you do, don't take on a family too, and PLEASE don't whine about stress. You make your own bed.
Keith, I just got out of one post with disagrement because I was too hasty to consider where I live and what I was working on. We all do different things , have different lifes , and live in different places. There is good sense to what you are saying except you are being hasty when you call what other members are doing , stupid .
I know that Boss has built a house hes had hell building and selling . As far as I know it isnt sold . Hes the only one bringing in money in his family. Sometimes we have a job that calls for the beyound. Everyone is not in your frame of mind or exact situation. Many times it is agreed on that a person in a family do a carreer. My wife is gone all the time it seems. I would have better luck seeing my doctor with out an appointment then my wife in business hours. I keep our grand child . I have rentals , and Im on call all the time. I have to be. She runs two companies , and she has to keep her job. I have to do my rentals after hours unless its an emergency . Weekends are not mine if a renter moves out or I working one to go in. Enough.
Also stuff happens to people out of their control. Too many to list and I would only touch the surface.
But here is the main thing ; It is all our choice [maybe a family choice ] to make our decisions as we see fit . After all we do live in America. I enjoy your posts , and we all enjoy comming in here to relax. Im learning to handle disagreement better if it comes from gentlemen. " If you have time " [lol], read the "exellence or perfection post " We need to be friendly.
Tim Mooney
Can I do the old read and explain for Keith? I'm pretty sure he wrote the bogus reasons people state are stupid...not that the people are stupid.......that was just implied!
And Andy........5am to 11pm! Com'mon.....give me a break. If business was that steady....you'd own the freaking magazine! Who the hell has the nerve to call before 6 and after 8? I'd let the machine get it...then wait till normal business hours and tell them to lose my number! ...if those calls ever happened to me...which they don't!
Only time I got a call that late was when I left off one last piece of flashing right before a thunderstorm...then I was out at work at midnite....but I ain't gonna claim I work from 8am till 1am. Just once don't a schedual make. Jeff.......Sometimes on the toll road of life.....a handful of change is good.......
We got a call at 11:30 pm the other night. Lady going out of town wanted to make sure we had everything sch. to go on the job we were to do for her. She is trying to sell her house and needed the repair work finished for the weekend. I realize she is concerned, but I thought someone had died! Anal are what some people are!Tamara
Jeff, my excavator started at 7 AM. We used a pretty big excavation company, and our favorite operater lived about an hour and a half from most of our jobs. His boss would often call me at 5 if the weather looked doubtful, just to see if he should send the operator out. I often started at 6, 7 at the latest, so 5 AM phone calls weren't outrageous. It was the late night calls that bugged me.
If I ever go back into business, I'll structure my life a bit differently. Like maybe an unlisted number.
Andy Engel, The Accidental Moderator
Andy....living on the northern shores of Long Island....so called the Gold Coast.......I have never in my 27 years gotten a call that early,,,,,10:30PM is an outragous late call as well.....if you were a lawyer with that "#### a nine clock" next to you that counts the minutes and the times they come in.....something tells me.....yer in the wrong business.....I MIGHT understand it within heart surgery or lawyers with those suck #### clocks within serial killer family issues.....and the such but,,,,,,dude.......c'mon.......you better be super wealthy or super stupid!!!!!!!! Sorry bro!......Those hours for the money we all make in "construction" sounds seriously #### o nine times ten,,,,,dont care what company you worked for now or before........ Sounds stupid even for serial killer lawyers bro. I'm betting and hopping yer talking about a few weeks that freaked you out. OUCH!
Namaste'
Please be happy with yer new gig...
Andy
PS...If this is the case you sure owe all of us a wonderful article.....c'mon'!!! You so very are a person we all would love to emulate from all yer posts and past comments about how you got to where you are...at least I would.....sure am interested!!!!!!! OKKKKKKKK waiting to get trashed (me)....no biggie........I like you alot Andy It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy, are you off your pills again?
Tim Mooney
Andy, take note of the fact that I'm no longer a builder. My earlier description took over several years of my life. I started spec building with a partner and borrowed money. As Ron can tell you, you don't make money spec building for some time. For several years, I worked my regular job as a carpenter and my regular job as a builder. Can you say, "Burn out"?
Andy Engel, The Accidental Moderator
Gotcha.....I understand....I've been doing that now for almost 27 years...my spec homes and my regular customers....actually this spec house is almost sold and I'll be on to my next. At 51 my back is "just " starting to hurt...Maybe I have one more in me.....hmmm, maybe two : ) So yeh, I gotcha....musta been off my Prozak that day...lol..sorry for the rant.
Be well
Namaste
Andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 8/13/2002 12:16:13 PM ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
What time do you call it a day? About when I wake up in the middle of the night with the solution to the problem that'd been buggin' me.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
Anytime. Sometimes I call it Monday, or sometimes I call it Tuesday, or sometimes I call it wednesday, or sometimes I call it thursday, or some...........
I have to say this is my favorite response!Tamara
I'm on the beeper 24/7, but this job is kinda like the fire department. Lots of time between calls. I'm doing my own remodel, so I try to get in an hour on it at lunch, then after work from 6 to 10 or 11, when I'm ready to drop.
-- J.S.
I quit when things are finished for the day. I agree with Keith that everyone should have a life away from work. After having worked some crazy hours I am trying to keep normal hours nowadays. Anything more than 10 - 12 hours a day you are working dangerously. Your body needs a rest!
My longest day was 42 hours straight. I once worked over 120 hours in one week and got paid for 40 hours basis. Why should i bust my butt when no one cares how many hours get put in.
I know work 40 hours a week and LOVE IT!
Wednesdays during the summer i cut out early and drive up to be with the wife at our trailer in cottage country. Do the same on fridays to avoid rush hour going north. You won't catch me working for the company on a weekend. I have kids and a wife to enjoy spending time with
One of the standard lines when I started a company was, "When you're your own boss, you have great flexibility. You can work any 90 hours of the week you want to."
There's times to follow different patterns. I couldn't have started my company with a 9-5 sched or w/ 40 hrs/week. Never would have gotten all the work done.
Now with the design work, I keep a really scattered schedule, but that's by choice. I work out of the house, and will have calls with clients whenever they're free, which is often at night when both spouses are home from work. But while that takes away from family time, I'm also free to skip out for 3 hours for my daughter's gymnastics' practice or go to have lunch with her at school without answering to anyone.
I had 9-5 for too many years, and you can keep it. I'm much happier having my schedule flow both with the work and with family activities.
I agree with Jeff and Keith. Usually it is inability to plan, co-ordinate, organize or the fact people don't want or have a home life. I want to control my time. Thats what being in business is all about for me. Just my opinion, I could be wrong. DanT
I guess I have no life, all I do is work, and have been most of my life. I just sold a nice Sea Ray because I never use it. Bought the Sea Ray in '96, same year I bought my lawn tractor. Tractor has 230 hours, boat had 100 hours.
I take calls whenever the phone rings. I see customers at their convenience. My day usually begins around 5:00 a.m. and ends around 8:00 p.m., when I eat dinner.
Thing is, I'd rather work than do most anything else.
I'm 40, be 41 on Aug. 19th. Should be retired in about 9 years. Yeah Right!
Ditch
Ditch , ditto for me . Ive got a 95 four wheeler bought new that has 800 miles on it . A bass boat bought new in 99 that hasnt seen the fifth tank of gas. A camper that has been out one time this year. I could afford to enjoy these things plus more , but I would rather work.
The goofy one ,
Tim Mooney
To All:
I think you will all like this type of day. My full time job as a water filtration operator and wastewater operator starts at 6:00 to 2:30, up at 4:30. I also have four part time jobs at the same type of treatment plants that I rotate with my brother and another man. Some days two on the same day, the double whammy we call it, 70 miles round trip. For the last year we built my brothers house, 2500 sq. ft. and started mine,3000 sq. ft on July 1st,2002. We meet around 4:00 and work until 8:00 or so, weekends after our side jobs until about 6:00. Seven days a week. We have a day off of all of all jobs about every 45 days or so. Usually there is a problem on those days of course.
I remarried last 4th of july and now have three kids and Jan 7th had my colon out due to Ulcerative colitis. I just turned 46. The way i look at it is, one more year and then it will only be my day jobs.
Rafters this weekend..........yahoo!!
When I was building, I worked until I finished what needed doing. More than once I didn't get home until the next day. The phone could start ringing at 5 AM, and not stop until 11 PM. That was my day, but my partner was the workaholic <G>. We once went from July Fourth until sometime in October without a day off, working days that probably averaged 12 hours.
And so, having kids who weren't getting younger, I traded for an office job.
Andy Engel, The Accidental Moderator
Work when you want.
I went into this business with that attitude and still maintain it. Those who call at 8:00pm on a Sunday night or send a fax at 1:00am need to find another contractor. Because they are caught up in a downhill race to make money doesn't mean I don't have a life. I go to work when I want and leave when I'm tired ( been to the emergency room too many times late in the day).
losing jobs for impatient customers can actually make make money. If they want me it's on my terms!
I got 10 messages on the cel and 5 on the business and they all have to wait cause I'm booked through the end of the year!
Flashing back to what Kieth said( using the word "stupid")----I don't find anything the LEAST bit objectionable about it.Considering that Taunton,in it's infinite wisdom, has apparently outlawed the "7 dirty words" plus a whole lot more----ya gotta leave us a few descriptive words. Y'all gotta be a bunch of hairy legged marys' to object to something as innocent as the way Kieth used the word" stupid".
now,with that rant aside,-----perhaps Kieth knows exactly what he is talking about.I can't recall Kieth ever complaining about the quality of work his customers ask him to perform,I don't recall Kieth ever whining that he doesn't have enough customers,or wondering why he doesn't have enough money,or can't sell the product of his labor-----So maybe he knows what he is talking about.
BTW,I have talked several times in the past about my usual work schedule but I will post it again.
I try to stay at home in the morning untill my kids leave for school around 7:30 or 7:45 am.I get to the job around 8:00. I work nonstop from 8:00 untill 12:00 or 1:00( no coffee breaks,smoke breaks,lunch or other time wasters.) I will slow down to write a sub a check,but thats about it. I try to be off the roof by about 1:00 then pack up,clean up,schmooze the homeowner,collect any check owed and head for home.Usually I will stop on the way home to give an estimate,buy materials for the next day or go to the bank----sometimes all 3. I try to get home before 3:00 when my sons return from school.
Once or twice a month I will do a roof that I can't work this way----that makes less than 50 days a year or so that I have to work untill 5:00-5:30 or so.for example This thursday and friday I worked untill 5:00 and Monday I will do about the same. I will take Tuesday off and then do a halfday job on wednesday and then take the rest of the week off.
It's all in the planning---that and deciding that your family is more important than your customers.
I just called a buddy who's an HVAC contractor. His message read, "This is XXX, of XXX Services. I'm out of town for several days and cannot be reached. My daughter is having a baby, and that's more important than the business, so whatever it is that you need will just have to wait until I return. Thank you."
Got a good laugh from that in light of this discussion...