I’ve been told I waste too much time with diagonal bracing, I’ll continue to do so thanks. Bear with me, this is my first try at linking.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/4754351/detail.html
Kevin
I’ve been told I waste too much time with diagonal bracing, I’ll continue to do so thanks. Bear with me, this is my first try at linking.
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/4754351/detail.html
Kevin
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Replies
Temp bracing is good... and it needs to be take seriously. We see a story here every once in a while where someone was killed. Last one I remember was I think in Fla where some guys were working on a church. Being the top dog wouldn't feel so good when it's gotta be you to call the guys wife to let her know that her hubbie won't be comming home... :-)
I was on one like that once..the crane operator swung a pair ( we hauled up two at a time) and hit the already set ones...bracing was snapping like rice krispies.
I was on an outside wall and jumped down on the secondfloor deck, my buddy on the bearing partition wasn't as quick..broke his leg when he got tangled up in ythe dominoe effect.
The last trusses I had a close contact with was 4 yrs ago..and you bet we braced the heck outta them. Had no crane, so we hoisted them by hand...12/12 32 footers.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
12/12-32 by hand? Being a small time remodeler I would run from that scenario like a cat from a chinese restaurant. crane-good, death-bad.
Edited 7/21/2005 7:50 pm ET by AWSCHMIDT
I had no choice, it was for a very close friends daughters garage type thing...I wish I'd had a camera that day. We couldnt get truck in the drivewaay..so we carried every truss 600 yrds to the garage... Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I've been out on WAY too many of these.
Had lots of framers ask us if we'd replace the trusses for free. (The answer is "NO")
Or if we'll take them back to the shop and repair them, then bring them back out to the jobsite. (again, the answer is "NO")
Or will we give them instructions on how to patch the broken ones together so they can still use 'em. (another "NO")
At best, you have an expensive mess that costs the GC, framer, and/or the building owner a bunch of time and money. At worst you have injuries of varying degrees. Fortunately, I've only heard of a couple of deaths.
.
The worst one I've personally been involved in was a gym being added onto a church. The crew setting the trusses used about 1/3 of the bracing they should have. They didn't have one single diagonal brace anywhere. The spacing between some of the rows of braces was roughly 30'.
They were just about finished setting the trusses when the whole bunch simply fell over. All 9 guys that were on the roof went down with them. And all of them were seriously hurt.
As it turned out, the framer had no insurance, and owned nothing but a pickup truck. So the church ended up eating the whole cost of cleanup and replacing the trusses. I never heard if the guys got their injuries covered or not.
.
But when I try to talk about bracing to GCs and framers, their eyes immediately glaze over, and they start muttering stuff like "We know what we're doing". No one seems to take it seriously. And they act almost as if I'm insulting them by even bringing up the subject.
But when the trusses go down, they immediately start pointing fingers at us.
Thanks for bringing up the subject, Kevin. I've started several threads about this very subject here on BT. But it's been quite a while.
Sorry to ramble on so much. But this is a pet peve of mine...
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't watching.
Worse than a pet peeve, it's saving dimes on material/labor or just just being lazy that results in serious safety problems (replacing materials is secondary). Rant on.
Kevin
Sorry to ramble on so much. But this is a pet peve of mine..."
How's it going Ron?
I understand what you're saying. On a brighter note, when my shop was built, the builder (who had the highest quote) braced the trusses extremely well during construction. Probably because it was T-storm season, but even had braces that went into the ground from the peaks, as well as probably a dozen angled across a 42' long on 24" OC 26'span.
Jon
Edited 7/22/2005 5:32 pm ET by WorkshopJon
80' clear span.
look closely to see if you can find the bracing.
i couldn't either.....carpenter in transition
Gawd almighty!
What a mess $$$$$.
look closely to see if you can find the bracing.
Tim-
You better clean your glasses. I clearly see a brace for the peak of the gable end leaning on the scaffolding. :)You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
I had a customer, actually have a gable truss fall apart and knocked a carp off the first floor plate, he caught both arms on the bottom chords of two other trusses, you should see the bruises.
I thought it was an OSHA reg now that you're not supposed to walk top plates.
You're supposed to set up a temporary "catwalk" system.
Those are really good pictures. Thousands of dollars reduced to toothpicks or pick up sticks.
And let's not thread drift into OSHA regs.
tied with rope ?
carpenter in transition
Thet looks a lot ike the church job I mentioned. Tall block walls, big trusses, little bracing, and a HUGE mess to clean up. Not a pretty sight. A while back I used to have a picture of a set of trusses on the ground like that. And right in the middle of the pile was a hole where they chainsawed a dead guy of of the middle of it. But unfortunately I've lost it.I went out on one job where they were setting a LONG building - Something like 150' or so. At one end they had braced the first truss with a pair of 2X4s. Each one had 2 nails in it, driven only partway in. And based solely on those 2 braces, they set the rest of the building.As they neared the other end of the building, they heard a noise. They looked back at the run of trusses they had just set and realized they were all falling over. They didn't have time to get off the trusses, but rode them down. Fortunately no one was seriously hurt that time.So what's the first thing they do? Call the truss company and tell them the trusses were defective. We go out to the jobsite to take pictures, (In case there's a lawsuit) and the owner of the building is there with his lawyer. The owner wants us to pay for cleanup and replacing the trusses. Obviously they were defective, or they wouldn't have collapsed. He didn't want to talk about truss bracing - That had nothing to do with it. After a big pissing match and a lot of threats, he settled with the owner of the truss company. I don't know the terms of the agreement, but I don't think we should have given him a nickel.
It's lonely at the top, but you eat better.
Boss, is there a standard permanent bracing plan/ schedule for simple designs such as 6 in 12 gable trusses? If so could you email me a copy? Thanks!Jason Pharez Construction
Framing & Exterior Remodeling
I don't really know what kind of bracing you're looking for.If you'll take a shot at telling me what you're looking for I'll try to come up with something.
If you have a job without any aggravations, you don't have a job. [Malcolm Forbes]
For your typical W style truss, 24'-30' my manufacturer recommends continuous X bracing on the long chord. I use 2x4's, one on one side of the cord, one on the other, we brace both long chords, two spikes at each junction. Wider trusses may require continuous lateral bracing towards mid-span. Again 2x4's, one at the top of the chord and one at the bottom.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
You're darn right, Kevin. There are way too many serious injuries from trusses collapsing. I X brace them as soon as I get up three or four and I don't cover one side with sheathing and leave for the night either.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
"There are way too many serious injuries from trusses collapsing."
Personally, I don't like to see them referred to as a "truss collapse". That implies that there was something wrong with the trusses.
The truth is that they simply fall over. (usually)
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You guys are giving me the willies.
Just put up the first truss on a 50' span on Friday afternoon. Kicked it off good, I know its not goin' nowhere, but it is 60 miles away. It better be standing Monday when I drive up. Hope I sleep good tonight.
I am printing these pictures for a safety meeting first thing Monday!
By the way, these are light gauge steel trusses, going on check points at entry to an Air Force Base. First building went easy, only 24' x 24' though.
I almost left the boom parked holding the truss up. That frickin' thing better be up tomorrow or I'll have officers chewin' my a** out, maybe throw me in the brig.
We just finished two houses in that area Awshcmidt (Armada Twsp). I'll tell Frank to check it out (He's building his new house there).
The problem with truss bracing is that most framers cut their teeth on small trusses....in the30 to 35' range. Small trusse like that can also be dangerous, but quite often they are not. Also, truss configuaration plays a huge role in their stability. Anyone that has handled them and set them by hand understands the difference in scissor trusses vs standard trusses.
The guys learn bad habits on the small jobs, then transfer the same toolbag of "skills" and apply them to large trusses and the disasterous results are predictable.
For instance, we set a very small set of studio trusses the other day" over a 18 x 18 study. We only used one brace at the center and mounted it on a level web strut (this was not the best choice when viewed from a strength issue, but quite workable for this baby set of trusses). The first two trusses were braced directly in line with the brace that was anchored to the deck. I ran the boom truck and later when I went up to inspect, the guys had continued the lateral lacing, but offset it about two feet from the first.
The two foot offset doesn't mean much on this small set of trusses and I didn't say anything, but I would have been very insistent to do it right on anything much larger.
On most trusses, I find that I have to continuosly re-teach basic bracing principles. Guys somehow think that putting braces in any haphazard way will actually think it will work. Maybe they think magic is involved.
Recently they started printing the temporary truss bracing information in Spanish. I have a hispanic working for me now and I sent the package home with him to read. I think Monday, I'll test him and see what he thinks about that little truss bracing detail.
blue
Sounds like a logical deduction (bad habits learned on the small stuff being carried on to the bigger). I do remodeling, so all my truss experience has been with additions ( aside from the occasional garage and add another floor ). I personally don't care if I'm using a framing nailer or a 23g pinner, I maintain the same level of caution ( nice analogy, eh ). Not sure exactly where this incident happened, I try not to stray too far from the Ann Arbor area ( if I wanted a long drive to work, I'd still have a slave job) but it sounds like probably your neck of the woods. Let us know if Frank get better pictures or more details.
Kevin
I’d have to say that the floor is temporarily bracing those trusses. I hope the GC can brag about the price he got on the framing as he heads to bankruptcy court.