Hi,
If you were about to remodel a house for the very first time ever in your lifetime, and you were extremely unsure about what would cost what and what was feasible and what wasn’t, who would you talk to first? A structural engineer? An architect? A contractor? Of course budget counts and we don’t want to spend any money that we will wish we hadn’t. Neither do we want to walk around with neon signs over our heads saying “free money now, ask me how!”
We have a rambler with a 3 season porch, carport, basement and three extremely small bedrooms. We are trying to figure out a way to expand the kitchen and make the porch 4 seasons plus get bigger bedrooms and maybe more storage downstairs. What would you do?
L
Replies
Hiya Emp-
They'll going to want your location and how much dollar wise you want to put into the project to get them started.
The more data you put in the easier it is for them to form ideas and opinions.
Oh yeah, Welcome to Breaktime:O)
Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
The other...proper application of risk.
I'm sure you'll get all kinds of advice, but personally I would go with an experienced designer. It seems like I spend 3/4 of my time with clients talking about space,flow, light etc.. the thing is I"m a GC and it's not really my speciality, but when it comes to remodelling, designers will usually have plenty of vision. The engineer is for after decisions have been made. My favorite projects start with a designer, then I come on board with practical feed back re: structural and other impediments, then after the plans are up, if we need to, we get them veted by an engineer. Don"t usually work with architects, and when I do I have usually found it kinda irritating.
first...I'd ask for referals from friends and family.
gotta be someone ya know that had a successful remodeling project in the past.
and I'd say a remodeler or a design/build firm..which is a fancy new term for full service remodeler...is what ya need first.
Maybe second....I'd post what city/town I lived in and maybe someone here works nearby?
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I'd call me.
;-)
I do design/build. That's the kind of outfit you want.
A good designer will be able to open up your vision to a lot of good things but still be practical if he works WITH builders. The designers can have a background in art, building, or architecture. The first talent he or she needs to display, in my mind, is the ability and desire to listen to you and to hear you and to communicate with you.
There are some architects ( we call them archy's too) here who will stop by too and offer good suggestions to consider. But primarily, this is a place where you will here from hands on builders. There is a sort of age old conflict hanging in the air between archies and builders. If you hire them separately, instead of as a team, you can expect some degree of conflict.
What often happens is that the archy will sell the client on a spectacular idea or concept with little practicle knowledge of what it will cost or mean in terms of production time. He will be forced to defend HIS "idea" and often makes the builder appear to be 'gouging' the customer on price. Tension builds.
That's one thing when you are building a new home but when these guys are practically living in your house with you, you want them to get along with each other and with you, in the realization that you are the customer and they are there to make you delighted.
The reason more remodeling firms are embracing the concept of design/build is that you start out with a team in place that works together and don't have to build your own so you can avoid the potential for that conflict. The designer has a better grasp of practical concerns like engineering and costs.
ASk around. See if anyone you know has had work done similar and has recommendations for you about who is good in the area.
Excellence is its own reward!
On a different (DIY) note, find friend or mentor who has done it - that was my approach 40 years ago. Besides parents and grandparent, I found a WWI labor camp survivor who convinced me anyone can do nearly anything if your survival depends on not being lazy - the peacetime trick is to not be lazy... Of course if you pull down $10K a day at a desk or $100K/day as ballplayer, why not put up a sign says 'free money'?
I would sit down with my wife and kids (if the kids are old enough) and make a list of all the desires you require for the house. Take your list and prioritize the suggestions into sections such as-must have-could use and the dream. Then I would consult my bank account and the bankers to find out what money I would be allowed to spend on the addition/reno. Figure out then what you could comfortably afford and deduct 30%.
Now you have a working budget with a 30% cusion and a good idea of what your priorities are. Now you can call Piffin and have his team work on it. Keep your 30% out of the discussions and have your plans drawn up.
Be sure to plan ahead as much as possible so that things not being completed may be done easier in the future eg run conduit in walls for future wiring , install blocking for wainscotting etc.
Hopefully you will have a sucessfull reno and the 30% may only be partially used.
Good luck
Cheers,
Brent
Empathy-
I'd start by calling a pre-construction consultant like myself (though calling Piffin if you live in his area would work too...lol). The services I provide include guidance in determining the scope of a project, establishing a budget, cost estimating services at the conceptual, preliminary design, and construction document stages, and periodic inspections during construction. Rather than getting in too deep with a designer, only to find out that th job is over budget (although that NEVER happens, right guys???? lol), we can make sure you're on the right track from the start, and keep you on track throughout the design process.
Design/build firms can do this for you as well, but sometimes you need a little help even earlier in the process that they will usually get involved. And, since we don't perform any of the construction work, we have your best interests in mind- nothing to lose by telling you that you're over budget, or that your plans are lacking detail, etc. I'm not trying to beat up the designers or contractors, just telling you what I've seen.
Bob
what part of the phone nook do ya find a "pre-construction consultant"?
Doesn't sound like a bad idea.....I can think of a few past clients...and tire kickers..I would have rather sent to ya for a real world wake up call on how much stuff costs!
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
An excellent question, Jeff. I don't list in the phone book for just that reason- no place to list...lol.
I tell ya, that's what I do a lot of- prevent tirekickers from ever wasting contractors' time. By the time I'm done with them, they either have a realistic budget, or they decide not to do the project until they can afford it.
Bob
Jeff, as soon as I select my Lottery numbers I will be upgrading the scope of my current project. I'm think an Astrologer might be what I need?
Joe H
That 30% is close to right. It'll generally run over from 20 to 40%.
But it is not the contractors that homeowners need to be protected from. In my experience, (I watch out for their interests too) homeowners need to be protected from themselves.
I establish a budget and work my butt off trying to keep within it and they go out like a kid in a candy store, shopping, buying, and changing things. They have no self-discipline. I know and they know, that that contingency fund is there, but they spend it on eye candy and then when the rotten sill is discovered or the boiler goes out, they wionder why I'm over budget.
I would see that as your most valuable contribution to a project, not that you could do anything with a customer who thinks, "It's MY money - don't tell ME how to spend it".
Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks to all who answered! Such good advice that I copied the responses to a word document to keep. I was surprised about the 30% contingency plan $$--I'd always heard 10% but then, when I think about it the articles usually also talked about how the home owners ended up going over that amount due to "surprises"
Thanks!!!
Lisa
Lisa,
You didn't mention whether you were planning on doing any of this yourself. This sounds like a good size project, most of the house. I am currently completing my remodel (it will never be complete!). The first thing is lots of reading and research. I read FHB, lots of books and a lot of posts on this forum to educate myself.
After all my reading I bought a cheap software package for drawing up plans. It allowed me to layout the current design and then I made my changes. It had a nice 3d view so I could get a fairly good visual. Once I had a close idea I contacted architects and people in the trade to get ideas. Using printouts from the design program helped my discussions.
You won’t get cost estimates until you have drawings. And for some reason having an architects name on your drawings takes a big chunk out of your budget. If you calculate the price of materials it appears you have plenty of budget. But when you start including architects, engineers, GCs, plumbers, electricians, etc, you can find your project looking like ten times your initial budget!
You really have to look at how much it’s worth putting into your house considering age and neighborhood. In my case I couldn’t see a huge budget. So I needed to decide where to put the money. For instance I found a draftsman to draw my plans for an incredible price (it did take a while to find him). Plus he took them to city hall to apply for my permits. I hired crews to do the roof framing and roofing material due to unpredictable weather we have and it required structural changes. You don’t want to do concrete by yourself so I hired a crew for that as well. The rest of the work I have been doing myself. But at a cost. And that is time.
Which is another issue. If you live there, it’s easy to put things off. Plus you spend a great deal of time daydreaming or trying to decide the best way to do something. And you have those inspections. But one nice thing, at least in my area, they are generous with homeowners and their questions and making sure you do it right (at least the next time).
The bottom line is you need to do a lot of planning and preparation up front. Don’t expect to be breaking ground in three months. By the time I finally got my permits it had been close to a year. It will be tough and frustrating at times but it does feel good in the end (or close to it!).
Good Luck!
Steve
On the 30% contingency thing - Have you read my "Spec House from Hell
" thread?Sex on television can't hurt you... unless you fall off.