I contracted with a local reputable builder to build a screen porch, deck and some attached stairs. The plans call for the porch to have a tile floor and to be at the same level as the inside of the house (no step). The attached deck and stairs were to be a step down. The contractor said he would use Advantech subflooring in the porch and I was to install the tile later. They are also replacing an existing sliding door with a new double opening french door.
Well it turns out they built the porch too high. The framing for the porch is either flush with the house’s subfloor or maybe a 1/4″ below it. The house has a hardwood floor on top of the subfloor. With the 3/4″ Advantech it is really already too high; when I add 1/2″ of tile it really will be too high. I pointed out the problem three weeks ago, but I was running out the door on a three week vacation. The porch is now framed, sided, roofed, skylights installed and the attached deck has the decking down. Today, one of their junior carpenters went to install the door, and I think it is clearly going to be a problem. The contractor said they would send over the foreman tomorrow to fix it up. I don’t see an answer. I really don’t want to see the whole thing come apart again, but should I be making them do this? I don’t like the idea of a door that is a low point, specially living in snow country. What would you do?
Dave
Replies
Your contractor screwed up, the floors should be level, there is no excuse. Make your contractor fix it, I hate it when renovations are made and the floors are unlevel, it looks like crap for many years to come.
Keeping floors level in this case is easy, any GC worth his salt can do it.
I would put a minimal threshhold at the french doors. The doors should have a threshold if they are exterior doors. You may have to cut or modify this so that it works with the tile.
Sometimes it is impossible to match the existing floor height, eg when the existing floor is way out of level. I don't know if this is your case or if the guy made a bonehead error. The solution requires a little creativity and extra work, but it can be resolved.
Have patience and be reasonable but insist that the problem be fixed.
The house was built in '93, all floors are almost dead on. I'm not sure exactly what you are proposing as a solution. Could you explain it a bit more?I am trying to be reasonable, but I'm not sure what reasonable is. The height differences won't be much when stepping over a threshold, but I'm more concerned about water. With the tile higher than the hardwood and the house's subfloor, I can't picture a solution that could keep the water away from the house long term. Looks like the others think I should demand that the porch be dropped or rebuilt.Dave
"The house was built in '93, all floors are almost dead on. I'm not sure exactly what you are proposing as a solution."
I am just throwing out a few ideas. Without seeing the exact situation, I can't give you comprehensive advice.
I am trying to give you advice that will lead to a good solution for you. A good solution rarely results from one party making demands of the other. A good solution will involve both parties working together to reach a common goal.
If there really is a problem with water being driven into the house, there is a design problem; there should have been a step at the door. Who's fault is this? A flush design as described in your post is not a good solution for this problem.
I am not saying this to criticize you or to back up your contractor but only to point out that mistakes are common in the building process and that the best way to deal with them is not by fingerpointing but by working together. The contractor needs to listen to your concerns and you, in turn, need to listen to him.
That said, maybe the best solution is to rebuild the porch floor. Maybe the best solution is to have a threshold to conceal the height difference and to seal to floor at the threshold. In any event you will have to work it out with the person doing the work.
Dave
Well it turns out they built the porch too high
If that's true, make them fix it. Why do you want to compromise what you planed to do.
If it really requires them to do it over so be it. You contracted for XY and Z, that's what you should get.
Doug
That's really why I posted the question in the first place. I know what I contracted for, and I'm quite certain I could force them to fix it, but I really only want to take that route if there is no other reasonable way to alleviate the problem. As I just noted in another response, I'm most concerned about water, I don't think the floor height differences will be noticeable when stepping over the threshold between the two rooms. Am I way off base with this and it will be very noticeable? I suppose I could throw a sheet of 1/2" ply on the floor to simulate the tile and try it.Are you a contractor? If you are, would you fight this or volunteer to fix it by dropping or rebuilding the porch?Dave
Dave
I responded to this for a couple reasons.
First, if I hired someone to do something than that's what I'm paying for, nothing else. Fairly simple.
Second, by responding it kinda keeps the thread in view of others, those with much more experience in these matters will give you some better advice.
I'm not a contractor, I don't stray away from finish/cabinet work much anymore. I have done a fair amount of building/remodeling work in my day though.
If you think it will be a problem, and it very well may be, than I would make them fix it. After all that's what you wanted, what you contracted to have done. Why do you want to figure out a way to compromise?
Doug
O.K. so you're only real concern is water...............seems to me the water problem could have happened regardless of floor hts.Since you were originally going level (as opposed to lower ) on the porch.You shouldn't have a water problem no matter what the situation is if the construction is up to 'par'. Any reputable contractor will guarantee this especially if he is faced with the alternative (lowering the porch).
DaveG,
How big is your porch? Is it huge, or something small? Reason I ask is that you pointed out the porch has a roof over it plus skylights (if I remember correctly).
If the porch depth ( from door to deck) is large and under roof, chances are, not much water is ever gonna gather on your porch. Also, is porch slighlty sloped away from door towards deck? If porch is sloped away from door, then again, water is gonna flow away from your house, not into it. A threshold under the door( as earlier mentioned) would also help keep out water infiltration.
If porch is just a few sheets of ply, contractor could take out trusty cat's paw and remove the sheets, then remove 3/4 of an inch or so of wood from top of joist ( provided joist is sized well enough to allow this removal without affecting structural integrity) More than likely, this bit of wood removal will cause no harm..and if in doubt, contractor could sister in a few more joists to carry the load. After doing this, reinstall plywood and proceed as originally planned. On a small porch ( say 5 ft X 10 ft), this work would only set me back an hour or 2 at most.
I would have no qualms about fixing this porch to your specs if porch was not too large, and if I felt I was at fault. You mentioned that you talked to your GC but was in a hurry and I just wonder if perhaps communication between you and him was a bit shaky?
Anyway, If I was your contractor and porch was very large ( say 12ft X 20ft or larger), and I had already sloped porch away from house ....then honestly, I would first try to persuade you to live with it...and would only change it if I lost in the persuasion game.
If height between floors poses no trip hazard...then again, as your contractor, I'd try very hard to let it remain as is.
Just my 2 cents.
Davo
quote: "I don't see an answer. I really don't want to see the whole thing come apart again, but should I be making them do this?"
quote: "(as a contractor) would you fight this or volunteer to fix it by dropping or rebuilding the porch?"the experts here will help you figure how to fix it.
i'll address your reluctance to have the builders fix what they screwed up.
you don't have to see an answer; they made the mistake. they will make every effort to come up with the most painless fix possible, but if the only answer is a drastic re-do, that's a decision you should make after some discussion together of the pros and cons.
dave.. i'd like some pictures of the addition . it's hard to tell how much of a problem it is or it's going to be..
one thing to keep in mind
with tile, you want 1 1/4 under the tile or you run the risk of too much flex...
1 1/4" not 3/4".. so, i'd use 3/4" Advantech and 1/2" underlayment ply..
in other words .. if... IF..... the porch floor must be flush or below the interior floor
then the joist tops have to be lowered even more...
if it's a covered porch.. and there is a threshold.. then your in / out transition may allow some dissimilarity in heights..
is it a covered porch... an enclosed porch. a heated porch .... how big is the porch?
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 3/3/2005 6:05 am ET by Mike Smith
I would install cleats to the sides of exisiting joists (first removing the Advantech)
Then install your plywood between the joists to allow for 1 1/2 inch wetbed. This will get the floors level, or you could pitch the entire floor to outside. Its a common practice around here. You just cant do it if the joists are on the upper end of a span table.
Should you pay for this? Hell no-but you already know that.
More details please...you describe a screened porch that was to end up with tile flush to the existing interior floors, and a drop down deck attached to the porch....now your tile will be a little higher than the existing interior floor, and you are worried about snow melt....if water was a concern then the screen porch should have been designed to be 1 or 2 steps down from the house....don't think your going to get anything torn out for you, and a threshold should resolve minor height differences...I'm in agreement with the poster who really dislikes mis-aligned floors, but you may be stuck......
JR
don't think your going to get anything torn out for you
But what if they agreed to build it lower?
Doesnt that count for anything.
Doug
Hi Dave,
The first thing I would do is meet with the builder and see if you can resolve the problem! We want to make it right and trust that you do, too.
I think we have a couple of solutions that will work. I discussed it with Scott, and I think we are set up to meet with you, possibly on Tuesday so I can look at it myself and discuss with you posible solutions.
Call me if you have any other concerns,
Thanks,
Peter Jessop
Peter, welcome to Breaktime. Are you involved in this project, perhaps the architect?Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
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