What’s a “nail shaker”? I’ve seen this referred to as a jig to hold shingle nails so they feed into your hands head-up, and I think I’ve seen one in a foto of someone nailing down wood roof shakes. Would it speed hand-nailing of asphalt shingles? Where do I get one?
(Googling “nail shaker” gets you into the enormous world of Shaker furniture. False lead.)
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Replies
roofing supply house should carry them. Comes in right hand and left hand versions.
Also called a "stripper"
Thanks -- I found a picture one at a supplier using Google. I will look locally to get one. I spend a lot of time fumbling for nails, and this sounds like a stripper would help my butter fingers.
Google is tricky -- first I tried "nail stripper" and I got links to companies that sell artificial "nails" to "strippers", i.e., ladies who take their clothes off to music. Then I tried "roofing nail stripper" and found the item you describe.
If you found a link, could you post it?I've never heard of these things.
In an underdeveloped country don't drink the water. In a developed country don't breathe the air [Jonathan Raban]
Your just hoping that he will post the links for the nails for strippers by accident.
The one I have is a bit different then this one. We would wear it around the neck, hanging around your chest. Movement would put the nails point down for grab & nail.
Will look in the am for it!
http://www.rwc.org/u/web/rwcorg/cgi-local/catalog.cgi
We always called them Shaker Boxs!
edit:
Link will not get you all the way to them, need to search for nail stripper, then it will show a photo, sorry!
Edited 4/8/2005 11:26 pm ET by G80104
http://www.rwc.org/store/thumb/p391t.jpg
After looking at the pic it is still a little hard to see how it works...
I see some pro roofers who do all hand nailing - I wonder if it can really be efficeint as opposed to working with guns... Matt
If you ever watched a guy like G80104 was talking about, you would wonder why they ever invented nail guns.
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"Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"
That's what I thought... The roofers I've been using lately don't use them and they don't seem slow.Matt
I helped a guy put down some shingles one time and he was quit fast.
He told me "Hit once to set it and a second time to send it home. If you have to hit a third time get off of my roof."
That was when I learned to put some power into that hammer.
So it isn't just how fast they feed it, but also how many times they hit it.
DaneI will always be a beginner as I am always learning.
It is far more than powered hammer swing.It is learning to finger the nails, so that as you shake a handfull out of your pouch, you have at least four nails lined up between your fingers point down, and then having the co-ordination to move them forward with your thumb as fast as you can swing your hatchet.It is a study in the science of motion. It is a ballet. And to keep it up all day, it is as strenuous a job as you will ever find.
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Piffin I have to say thank you.
I never really thought about the motions that it takes to build something like a house. I have looked at them as a work of art, but the motions to build it as a performing art never occurred to me. And unlike the ballet in a theater, when the curtains fall, at the end, there is something left behind for the world to see. A monument to the ballet itself, that is an art form of its own.
DaneI will always be a beginner as I am always learning.
Sounds like the guy I started with. Tap................bang. That's all he wanted to hear. It made for strong forearms and a good aim. He didn't want to see any nails flying by due to bad hits. After years and years of doing hand nailed roofing his hands were a sight to see. He could put em done though. Having the roof stocked right is very important too, as you all know. I remember first learning about hook blades. Sure saved the knuckles. We always traveled light . Only carried the tools we NEEDED in our apron. Those were the days...................young dumb and full of...............
Mike L.
You reminded me about knuckles. All os us who shingled regularly had such callouses build up on the knuckles of the left hand from dragging them across composition shingles, that they were bulbous and smooth. later, when I started doing more cedar than comp, I had a permanaent set of slivers in the callouse knuckles and heel of my left paw from using it to hold the shingle in place while the hatchet set the first nail.
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Yup, knuckles took a beating. You could always spot a rookie holding the nail between the thumb and forefinger. I think it was you that reminded me of fingering the nails to always have the next one ready. I worked with a guy who had a bad habit of leaving a little trail of loose nails behind him. They would drop out of his hand. How about those old rough galv. nails. Sometimes you would get a clump of them all stuck together. One old roofer told me "Show up in the morning with an empty pouch, go home with a full one. You'll have enough nails to do your side jobs."
Mike L.
27 sqare in a day was my top - efficient enough?
typical day 15-16 squares
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27 sqare in a day was my top - efficient enough?
I'm gonna have to bust your chops a little on that one. How many hours? What slope? Wide open roof planes? Was the roof stocked, previously? Were you working solo or was someone throwing for you? One story? How hot?
I've done a little better than that handnailing, but I had someone packing and throwing on a 4/12. One story and the weather was perfect, 10 hour day. One of the few roofs I've ever done that wasn't 12/12 with umpteen valleys and dormers 30 ft from the ground. I've never taken a lot of pride in speed, but back in my shingling days, I always had to take the first rack or I'd be waiting ( and b!tching ). Then I didn't have to wait ( just b!tch).
I'll have it done right on schedule...................Mine.
My hat's off to you too, because I know what a big body you have. most of ther faster shingle layers I've known were smaller wiry guys.That one was in Florida, after I had been doing it for about three years ( took me six months just to learn how to finger the nails properly) It was a 4/12 pitch. The whole roof was a total of 27 squares. It had two valleys for the front garage dormer. It was already dried in and stocked. Down there the procedure was to get a call to go dry in the same day they finished sheathing. Then while the plumber poked his holes and the framers got the fascia on, the buiolder called for the shingles which would be stocked on the roof by the delivery. Flat land in developements and one story tract houses made things easy for the yards o do this with left body trucks. two big gorillas would back the truck to the edge of the roof, on the driveway, and lift the scissors body up and walk right off carrying the shingles.
When we had a 6/12 or steeper, we had to be there when the delivery happened, cause the gorillas were no longer the tree dwelling kind that liked high dangerous places.This was back when I had a regular roofing job and did other roofs on the side, so this one was a weekender. That gave me incentive to hit it hard in one day to have a day off. I went to the job on friday night to check it out, and while there, I installed the eave edge and valley metal in about an hour and a half. Open cut valleys with fresh mud seal on edges under shingles.Then the next morning I was driving nails at sunup, and after an eleven hour day, had finished cutting the ridge and nailing it on. yes, alone. And picked up the paper wrappers. Waether was probably warm without being intolerably hot. then I left myself notice how much it hurt as I was patting myself on the backThe actuall laying rate was just short of three sq/hr which wasn't all that bad nor spectacular, but keeping it up all day was the hard part. There are little mind games I played with myself to keep that motivation going and to ignore the pains
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then I left myself notice how much it hurt as I was patting myself on the back
Yeah, I probably couldn't have done three squares all day the next day and that was when I was in my early 30's.
I always got a kick out of guys that would apply for a job and brag about laying 4 squares an hour. I'd try 'em out and let them lay about a square and then make them tear it off and lay it right. One big speed trick was to not put the fourth nail in 3 tabs when you're working a verticle rack.I'll have it done right on schedule...................Mine.
Yeah, I hated that trick. Even got soem wind repair work where I found out that some guys only used two nails per.They were probably on the way to becoming 'painters'The guys I knew who did four to six square an hour - they would only actually work abouty half a day, spend the rest of the day bragging or off getting drunk.But I did learn some technique from them about what I was doing right and what wrong. Like this - I startedout using a club to nail with. Guy pointed out that there was no way I could lift it as fast as he could lift his lighter roof hatchet and then do it a couple thousand times a day. so when I switched from that 20oz to a 14 oz with a longer handle for balance and power from leverage, I almost instantly increased my speed from a strong i-1/2 sq per hour to almost two sq per. Kept working my body mechanics to be more fluid and efficient and got above two per after a couple years altogether...
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"...most of ther faster shingle layers I've known were smaller wiry guys."
I was talking about roofing with one of the local contractors a whie back. He said the best roofer he ever had was a skinny, flexible college girl. She would stand flat footed on the roof and simply bend at the waist to lay shingles. And she could do it all day.
Trouble was - The GUYS on his crew were thinking about laying something else besides shingles.
(-:
A thing worth having is worth cheating for [WC Fields]
I see by your sig line that you have given up 'inventing' things.I didn't invent speed shingling. I knew guys faster, but I kept some focus on straight lines too.
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yeah straght lines do tend to slow down even the best of us!!!
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"Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"
That's really my question - air nailer vs. human nailer. A couple of months ago I posted a request for advice on whether I (DIYer) should invest in a nailer for a one-off roofing job. I work alone and need to finish everything during my summer vacation (I teach). The majority response was in favor of the nailer. But, nearly all of the responders were pros, and although a pro might be faster with an air nailer, it doesn't follow that I would be. In fact, I might spend a couple of days just familiarizing my self with the compressor, nailer depth settings, learning to manage hoses, etc. That would wipe out the potential speed advantage of the nailer.
So my current thought is that I might be better off with a stripper and a roofer's hatchet with a gauge. What do you think?
A lot of the guys around here (including myself) like big noisy powertools and will use any means necessary to justify their purchase. I can't shingle much faster by myself with a nail gun than hand nailing when you consider the set up time and jammed tool downtime. But, two guys using 2 guns run off one compressor, with spare guns in case one jams can go faster than two guys with hatchets and they're not as tired at the end of the day.I'll have it done right on schedule...................Mine.
I just bought 2 "strippers" on Ebay. They are now made in Montana.
They are a small capacity ( about 1 lb) Stainless Steel box with two tapered slots for the nail to drop down to. Only one way they can go. Comes with neck and waist straps.
The nails are stipped from the slots thru very small sprung trap doors on the left or right hand side, depending on which one you order. They make left handed and right handed models.
The original inventor has passed on , and the small co in Montana has bought the rights from his estate, so they have been out of circulation for a while.
Pictures only on Ebay, as far as I know, but you can order direct from http://www.nailstripper.com Excellent service and delivery to Canada, so you Southerner's could probably get them real fast!
Nice cordless tool ! Cheers.
Has anyone tried to use one of these nail strippers with drywall screws?
No, but I've had the same thought. I gave my stripper away, but I'll borrow it back the next time I need to hang some rock and see. I suspect the threads might hang up the system, but maybe not.I'll have it done right on schedule...................Mine.
Seems like I remember someone recommending that trick for drywalling in the "Tips and Tricks" section of FHB a while back.
If we fail to catch a cosmic fish it may be a trillion years before the opportunity comes again
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ahhh ... so this is how you sort out the nails that go on this side of the house from the upside down ones that go on the other side .... never knew they made such a thing ... been doing it manually!
hey Bill W, you do know that the upside-down nails for cieling nailing are convertable units dont you?______________________________________________
--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
You just have to be careful you get Northern hemisphere models and not the Australian ones...
Convertible units ???!?What good is a nail with a cloth top ?How do your ceilings ever stay on ???
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Back in the 80s, A guy I knew was the King of hand nailing 3 tab shingles. GAF used to have an annual event to see who was the fastest. My Man Donnie Rice took the Blue Ribbion many a time.
This guy was fast.... I knew how to lay um down. But never with speed. Never knew what a shaker box was till Donnie hooked me up. Learned a-lot from the guy. Will see if I can find the old box in the garage & post.
If I remember right, if the conditions were right & the roof was dried- in & stocked he could do 2 1/2 to 3 sq per hr. by hand.
I did that sped all day long - without a stripper. top dogs did four sq/hr. The fastest I ever saw was six in an hour, all hand aniled, but that was a sloppy job
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6 sq.per hr. Thats 8 seconds per shingle, I could see why it could get ugly. Years back we were on a Govt. job doing 3-tabs on buildings that were 300' long on the eave & 60' up the rake, 4/12 pitch. Pueblo, Co. Army Chemical Depot Plant.
Davis Bacon wages, so piece wages were not in the mix. Guys would start fast for the 1st week then slow down by week 2. 2500+ sqs used on the total project, went through 100+ roofers that spring summer. The owner of the company would send any & all packing if they did not do 16 sq a day.
On a big wide open run like that, there is no reason not to be able to lay at that speed. We were getting that on houses with valleys. My pard and I would aften do a 28-31 square house and be on the way home by 2PM
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Actually Nail Shakers are a long defunct of shoot of the Shakers.
with the advent of screws for fastening, the nail shakers eschewed screws in favor of trditional hammer driven fasteners.
the separated from the main shakers, but their entire community was wiped out by some Built-in storage cabinets that fell of a wall because the nails had worked loose.
Pete for POPE!!
"Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"
without knowing what your roofing material will be or pitch etc. I'd be one to favor handnailing your upcoming roof project
but do I also remember you are bldg a whole house?
for interior trim work an air nailer of some sort is indespensible
Re: those strippers - I've never done a composite roof ( will be doing other half of my composite roof in coming months ) but from my limited experience on many a cedar roof is these strippers are set up for 4 or 6 penny ( maybe 8 ) shingle nails which have small heads and arrow shanks - very unlike bigheadtoddmonster roofing nails for composition / just a thoughtabove that is "narrow shanks"